Copper Treatment

[juliear74]

Hi Everyone,

I originally posted this thread to the ich discussion but I am not sure if that is the correct place so I am trying to post again.

I found that the myths and truths about ich thread is so helpful! We have had a recurring ich problem in one of our tanks (which has been a bear) and have decided that we will try the settle the problem by using the copper treatment method described above after multiple failed treatments with a variety of agents. We have ordered the Cupramine and the test kit. I was wondering if some of you out there have done this before, and if so if you might be able to help me with a couple of questions in terms of set up. We have 5 fish that will be quarantined (2 damsels, 2 clowns, and one cowfish) for this purpose but have not yet set up a quarantine tank. My questions are as follows. (1) we have purchased a 29 gallon for quarantine of the fish. Will this tank size be adequate? (2) I understand that the QT must be simple, i.e., no sediment, and use only plastic etc. In setting this tank up I am concerned about nitrogen cycling. Should we fill the QT with water directly from the display tank so that the water in the QT already contains bacteria? The filter unfortunately will not. Should we set up the QT tank from scratch and let it cycle first? (3) How often should we test the quality of water in terms of ammonia, nitrite, etc while underoing copper treatment? (4) Should we QT the cowfish separately from the other fish to avoid poisoning all fish in the unfortunate instance that she stresses too much or dies? I fear that separating her will cause her even more stress as she is used to her tankmates.

I apologize for the length but I must admit that I am apprehensive about this process as I do not want to lose my fish but want to be rid of ich if at all possible! Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
Julie

[CoryDude]

That's sounds like a perfect size for a quarantine tank. A decent sized HOT filter w/some sort of sponge material and no carbon, would work well for a qt tank.

My last qt had an emperor filter w/extra sponge pads, for biological filtration. I did frequent water changes, and my fish did fine for 2 weeks and could have gone longer.

[alton]

You may want to read up on this but copper and clown fish I do not think mix very well? I know puffer fish are ich magnets, I am not sure about cowfish? Damsels can be a pain in an aquarium because of there ability to pick on other fish causing stress. Sounds like you you have cured the ich problem in your tank but that it keeps coming back? If so one or more of the fish are getting stressed or has a poor immune system. It can take months for an aquarium to go dormant once there are no host for ich to attack. The 29 should be plenty large for your other fish lf you go with copper. I wish I had a better answer maybe someone else can do a better job.

[juliear74]

Thank you both for your input in terms of the qt! I am glad to hear that the 29 gallon will work of for this. Corydude, do you think that I should fill the 29-gallon with the water from our display tank to avoid a surge of ammonia, etc? Alton, yes you are correct about cowfish as they do acquire ich readily. Unfortunately we have just not been able to rid ourselves of it. We'll go through these cycles where it seems as though it is gone and then one day the white spots reappear. Unfortunately we lost one of the clowns sometime during the night and the other one had more spots on it this morning. I re-treated with the Ich Attack but we just have not had a lot of success and unfortunately have lost many fish to this parasite.

[CoryDude]

Personally, I'd take some of the sponge pads and run them in your main tank for a few days. Let them build up some bacteria and what not. While this is going on, get your qt tank running w/all new water, then add the sponge pads from your main tank to your qt tank. But, I haven't run a qt tank in years, so hopefully someone w/more recent experience can help also.

[Still Learning]

If your tank has no fish for 6+ weeks the ich will die because of no host. Now if you add a new fish that has ich (takes a while before it can be seen on the fish) then you have ich again. You can only get ich if you introduce it to the tank. If the tank is empty for 6+ weeks the ich will die.

Copper is a great tool and one of the few that actually work with ich. We recommend that the first treatment you do the recommended dose, then the next day you do half the daily dose 12 hours apart.

If you have no fish in your tank, why are you quarantining in the 29 gallon? Do you have corals and inverts in the main tank?

(1) A 29 gallon tank can house about 15 inches of fish. Sounds like enough room.

(2) QT doesn't have to be simple, but the copper will kill a lot of inverts. Yes, use the existing water from your display tank. I would recommend a piece of live rock or two for good hiding places. You can always put them back in your display after you are done and given enough time they will become 'live' again. Use a dirty filter pad from your existing tank to set up the QT. No...just use everything from your display tank so that the cycle is little.

(3) as often as you like. The copper leaves the system pretty quick so it is good to test to see what levels you have it at and keep it at.

(4)double check that the cowfish can tolerate copper. I don't think so...but can't remember why I think that.

[kkiel02]

As much as I like to say you will get rid of it, I cannot honestly do so. I emptied my tank due to marine velvet. I kept the fish out for 2 months, actually about 9 weeks. Kept only the inverts in the display tank along with coral. I put all my fish in a 45 gallon tub I got at walmart with a hangon filter with a couple live rocks. Used Cupramine and tested almost everyday with a salifert test kit. This was to make sure I was at the correct level as I wanted to make sure the velvet was gone. Long wait, along with weekly water changes got very annoying but I kept on for 9 weeks fishless, well kind of they were just in a different tank. Back in they went and sure enough the ich was back not long after. I didnt add anything new and am still very careful to this day(qt and dip). I became curious on why it was still in the tank and got to reading about it being dormant for a looooonnnngggg time. I dont remember the exact number but way longer than I could ever do. I want to say it was well over 6 months.

Anyways on a good note, I dont think I have ever lost a fish to ich. Once an outbreak occurs, always when I add a new fish, I make sure everyone gets alot of food. My purple tang looked horrible a few weeks back when I added a pyramid butterfly but is now spotless. I have just learned to live with it as I wont qt the whole tank again unless I have to.

Another thing you might want to consider is ich usually occurs when fish are stressed so is there anything you could do to limit the stress they are receiving?

[juliear74]

Thank you all so much for your input and advice! Still Learning - you are correct, my display tank is full of inverts, live sand, and live rock. We decided to QT the fish and treat them separately in the 29 gallon; the fish will be out of the display tank for 8 weeks (in accordance with the information provided in the myths and facts thread) and so this should allow the display tank enough time to rid of the parasites while the fish are in QT undergoing treatment. Hopefully upon reintroduction we will no longer see this problem. Cowfish are ok with copper treatment and apparently handle it quite well (according to some of the sources I have found) - she is my favorite fish though and it would really upset me if I lost her. I am particularly protective of her and will continue to look into this. Kevin, gosh it is discouraging to hear about what happened to your tank! I pray that we are not in this same situation...we have also had our run-ins with velvet and this method apparently will help with velvet, too. I can only hope that we do not encounter what you went through. Thanks for the advice about stress and keeping them well fed. Our fish appear to be happy other than the tell-tale spots that they have. They all have good appetite, too, which is usually my indicator of how they are feeling.
Thanks again so much for taking the time to respond and provide your suggestions!
Julie

[BSJF]

Have you considered hyposalinity treatment instead of copper? Much easier on the fish (and me) IMO. Keeping the copper levels at the right place is hard and the test kits are also very difficult to read. Also, use different equipment/nets on the QT tank or you will reinfect your display.

[kkiel02]

I also hope that your attempt goes better than mine. What Ive learned about marine ich is- Fish will become resistant(not immune) to it over time, a UV sterilizer is very helpful, in tank treatments are a waste of time imo(not potent enough to kill ich), a healthy and well fed fish ought to battle it fine and cleaners (Like shrimp and wrasses) only kill the parasites they can get to. Best of luck!