Plumbing

[Europhyllia]

Didn't want to distract on Ray's thread anymore so here's my own:
is PVC tubes better than just vinyl hoses? Why? Seems like vinyl hoses would be super easy to connect and flexible.
I will have two overflows (drilled) in my new tank. What size return pump do you suggest?
Should I keep the one I have? It's a Rio Hypeflow 12 and pumps approx. 620 gph at 4ft.
Or should I go a little bigger like a Mag 9.5 which would pump around 800 gph at 4ft.
I am guessing 2 overflows would be rated at 1200 gph flow total but I like Ace's thinking of not maxing it out in case of a blockage.

[txg8gxp]

I think 600gph is low for a tank that size, but nothing wrong with slow filtration as long as you keep the vortechs. I'm running a mag 7 on my tank, but I could go smaller but it works to good to change. Braided hose would be better then pvc just because you wouldn't have to use and fittings.

[roscozman]

We use a combination of both. Using PVC fittings to "T" off the pump, Union Valves, Ball Valves and connections. We use SpaFlex tube for drains and tubing on returns to avoid 90 degree PVC elbows.

[hobogato]

when i had the 240 gallon tank, i ran it with two returns for a long time (mag12 and mag18). at that time, i also had lots of other flow in the tank provided by powerheads. that is when it was sps dominant. when i changed to all biological filtration and mixed reef with anemones and clownfish, i dropped down to a single return pump (mag12). i only had a wavebox in tank for added water movement, and really liked the way the tank ran. i only used hard plumbing for the dursos. everything underneath (drains and return lines) was clear vinyl tubing with hose barbs and good stainless clamps.

[RayAllen]

LOL, Karin I see I got the wheels in your brain rolling.

Im going with what the guys are saying. Hard PVC up top (Durso Stand pipes). Hard PVC just at the return pump so that I can use my ball valves to adjust flow as needed.

My drains I will switch out tonight with flexible tubing.

Im not to concered with a snail or any other animal clogging my plumbing. Anything bigger than a pea cant get through the sides of the overflows and I have eggcrate on top to prevent anythng from going over the top.

[Europhyllia]

okay wouldn't a single mag 12 exceed the flow of 1 drain, Ace? Or am I underestimating how much it can flow?

[txg8gxp]

a 1" bulkhead is rated at around 300-400 gph, with a durso standpipe on a 1" bulkhead it will handle 600-700gph.

[hobogato]

oh, my drains were 1.5" bulkheads with 1.5" pvc on the dursos and 1.25" vinyl tubes for the drains. (1.25" line will move 1.56 times as much water as a 1" line)

[roscozman]

okay wouldn't a single mag 12 exceed the flow of 1 drain, Ace? Or am I underestimating how much it can flow?

Is your tank built yet? It might be possible to ask them to drill a bigger hole if possible.

I ended up speaking directly with Deep Sea Aquatics about my tank (delivery issue) and my tank was not built yet at the time. I kick myself in the rear end for not asking to drill a bigger drain when I had the opportunity. They had great customer service and probably would of done it for a small fee.

[Europhyllia]

Gabe's going to be sick of me by the time this is over...
On the plus side I just gave him my credit card number and ordered my tank. :D

I am thinking the Mag 9.5 should be fine with the regular drains that come with it. I like the egg crate idea to keep the largest snails out. :)
I'll have 4 MP40s on it so I don't think flow will be a problem and if I ever start posting about my SPS assume my account has been hacked into!

[Bill S]

Karin, if you can, please oversize your tanks's holes. 1.25 or 1.5 would make you MUCH happier. I also go by the rule that one drain has to be able to handle the whole volume.

I use hard plumbing only to get to the valves, then I use tubing. Just so you know, after about 4 years, the tubing does get harder. As previously noted, only use hose clamps you buy from a marine source. HD and automotive ones will only last about a year or 2...

[Europhyllia]

Okay I'll check with Gabe and see if larger drain holes are a possibility

[Europhyllia]

thought of another question. On overflow boxes on non-drilled tanks you can adjust the grid thingy up or down to adjust the tank's water level.
Can you adjust the water level up and down in a drilled tank. I am assuming the grid thingies on top are pretty much set. Maybe the pipe adjusts on the inside of that overflow box?
Example: is I use the Vortech's in pulse/wave mode I'd probably want a little extra gap on top than if I jsut use them in one of the lagoon/reef crest/etc. modes...

[MRSBIGBIRD123]

Karin,
Steve's tank is a normal RR Oceanic and he uses a wavebox and has no problem with the water cresting. At least that's what he told me.

[txg8gxp]

I didn't have to adjust anything on my overflow with the wave box. Remember, even though the water is oscillating you are still pumping x amount of water into the tank, so x amount will come out through the overflow. I hope that makes sense.

[hobogato]

yep, on a tank that size, a wavebox will only produce about a 1" tall wave. i dont think the vortechs will produce more than that either. so, the set water level of the overflows will not be a problem. if you go that route, you will have a wave crashing sound as the pulse goes over the overflow, unless you raise the water level in the overflow to the top of the overflow with the standpipes on the drain.

here is how i did it in my 240
http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?48053-240-gallon-mixed-reef/page10&highlight=wavebox+overflow

[Neptune@gabesfish]

I have never .. Never in all my years of installing reef ready tanks from 75gal all the way to 750gal had a problem with 1" drains.. I can order whatever is wanted they will drill any size hole you want.. Either way your tank will only drain what is offered by your pumps if your overlflow boxes can handle it.

[Europhyllia]

Gabe what is the flow rate on the corner overflows that come with my tank (using the plumbing kits you suggested)? What kind of pump (gph) do they recommend for this?
Would you have a plumbing kit available for the larger holes?

[robalv]

I am by far a expert on this but I run a mag 18 on my 110 with 1" drains no problems.

[Neptune@gabesfish]

Each over flow box flows at around 750gph.. So with both running solid your tank can only handle around 1500gph going through the overflow boxes.. If you are planning on running a 9.5 mag then in reality you could drain with only one overflow box once you factor in head pressure.. A mag 18 will run this tank no problem.. Also I talked to Deep Sea and they will wait to see what you are wanting to do but the also agree that 1.5 holes are not needed especially if you are running durso pipes with screens

[Europhyllia]

especially if you are running durso pipes with screens
Am I running durso pipes with screens? (i.e. is that what's in the plumbing kit? I can add my own screens of course if the clear mesh I am using for my tank cover will work)
Would the plumbing kit come in a 1.25 anyway?

[Neptune@gabesfish]

Ok so we are doing standard holes right..

[alton]

Karin my 300 DD came with 2 - 1" holes for drains. I run a Pan World 50PXX(1100GPH) and a 40PX(480GPH) during the day. Around 6pm I turn off the PW 40PX and run the wave maker for several hours. At 9pm till morning I only run the 50PXX. I installed PVC for the drain because 1" vinyl tubing fittings choke it down to 3/4". I ran a mag 18 on my 75 oceanic with 1 - 1" drain with no problems. I like using Mag pumps, but there advertised GPH is wrong. My tank it is fairly quiet using PVC. Nothing wrong with going larger, just letting you know what I have.

[CoryDude]

I like using Mag pumps, but there advertised GPH is wrong.

Amen to that.

Karin actually measured a Mag 12 at about 4.5' head, and it was pushing about 750gph w/1" supply tubing. But, I love how quiet and reliable they are.

When high tank turnover rates were the fad in the 90's I ran about 1300gph on a drilled 75 w/dual 1" drains and never had a problem.

[Europhyllia]

Oh wow Cory. That's good to know. Sounds like ti should be just fine then.

[jrsatx20]

How bout just drilling bigger holes n put ball valves on drains to dial it back. No worries bout saying I should of gone bigger.

[rocketeer]

On the vinyl vs PVC question, there's something that I've discovered that I have not yet seen talked about. Vinyl is probably safe for a return line no matter how you run it but be careful on an overflow. You cannot just run vinyl willy nilly. Check out the following picture in which no water flows.

http://www.maast.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8180

Hopefully I drew that right. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. Even though the tank water level is 12 inches above the weir at the sump, no water flows. I had this problem on my 120 when I had the sump in the next room. It took me a while to figure out why no water was flowing. Now and then bubbles would develop and the flow would stop with negative consequences. It's fine if there are no bubbles.

Jack

[Europhyllia]

so all should be well as long as it's straight shot down without upwards loops, right?

[hobogato]

yep. i had that problem as well on the 240 until i shortened one of the drain lines so it was an all downhill path.

[txg8gxp]

I had my flex line in a slight loop, and the drain would surge alittle. That is normal of course because of venting, this will also cause a durso style overflow box level to surge up and down alittle aswell. Once I corrected the issue the whole system is nice and quiet without any water level changes in the overflow box.

[Europhyllia]

Okay so the standard drain is 1". What is the standard supply hole? 3/4"?
So it would be 3/4" in and 1" out if nothing is modified?

[txg8gxp]

Okay so the standard drain is 1". What is the standard supply hole? 3/4"?
So it would be 3/4" in and 1" out if nothing is modified?

From what I have seen, you are correct.

[Bill S]

Okay so the standard drain is 1". What is the standard supply hole? 3/4"?
So it would be 3/4" in and 1" out if nothing is modified?

Correct. That is what my 215 is. But as previously noted, I don't use those 4 holes for overflows. I have an end calfo. The others are for a closed loop.

[Europhyllia]

Thanks guys! Trying to get a shopping list together for my hoses and fittings so everything will be ready to go when the tank comes...