Planning, Hoarding and Researching for the Big One!

[Europhyllia]

Okay not so big for the rest of you people in the big tank forum -but big for me. :) I am in the planning stages for a 215 gallon tank which will replace my 125g

My to-do-list:

Get approval from SO :thumbs_up:
Buy two more MP40ws and 4 new ES drivers :thumbs_up: -
Buy supplies for mesh top :thumbs_up:
Buy 12 bags (40lbs) of Super Reef Dry Sand
Buy Return Pump ~ $180
Buy Big MagFloat :thumbs_up:
Buy more bio pellets ~ $60
Buy extra Filtration media (GFO, GAC, etc.) :thumbs_up:
Buy 4 new light bulbs (still got some new ones in reserve) ~ $120
Buy Stand and RR 215 Tank :thumbs_up:
Buy Elos NS 2000 skimmer :thumbs_up:


Sell not RR 125g tank and stand, overflow ~ $175 OBO
Sell ASM G1-X skimmer with Sedra 3500 Pump - $150 OBO
Sell TLF phosban reactor - $25 OBO



Possibly:
Buy more dry rock

Current tank dimensions:
72” by 18” by 24”

desired dimensions:
72” by 24” by 29”

limitations of current tank:
space for gorgonians (some tend to stick out of the water when pump is off or when/if further growth occurs
no open sand areas for sand burrowing fish (or rockless swimming space for active fish like anthias)
scatches in front glass
overflows require cut outs for screen tops

potential benefits of new tank:
internal overflows allow for complete enclosure on top (could even add a canopy if we wanted to)
tank can sit closer to the wall
no scratches
depth allows for deep sand bed and gorgonian growth
wider width allows for more open sand areas for swimming and burrowing
no outside boxes/overflows

Opportunities to fix some problems:
Replace sand with larger grained sand so it won’t be removed with every water change (current sand includes some extremely fine powder sand)

Consider partial rock replacement to eliminate last of the caulerpa rocks. Not sure how to accomplish that without losing filtration capabilities and kicking off another diatom disaster. Perhaps buy dry rock and replace caulerpa rock with new dry rock one rock at a time? No caulerpa in the display tank would be wonderful!
I would have time to replace one rock at a time and wait in between since it will take me 5-6 months to save up for new tank and accessories anyway.
I could place the new rock in the sump (away from the caulerpa rocks) or place the caulerpa rocks in the sump (away from the other display tank rocks)


Challenge:
The new tank will go in the same spot the old tank is at and I want to keep all livestock.

Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns?

[jrsatx20]

I think if u Put dry rock in sump, it would be a shame to have just a small piece of caulerpa infest your new rock and you would be back to same problem you are at now.

[Europhyllia]

I think if u Put dry rock in sump, it would be a shame to have just a small piece of caulerpa infest your new rock and you would be back to same problem you are at now.
How do do it Ruben?
I just went through a major disaster when I removed several caulerpa rocks from the system and started a huge cycle. I didn't realize how much I depend on the filtration those rocks provided.
Do what do you think. remove all offending rocks into the sump (to still get the filtration from them and place the dry rock into the display?

[jrsatx20]

Still think u still run the chance of infestation. The only way I can think of doing it would to use all new rock if hate the stuff as much as u say so. My blue hippo , sailfin , yellow all ate any macro I put in display tank. Might take a while but how bout this. Buy dry rock pull out a pilot the infested rock n replace with dry rock. Dry out old rock n start curing it again. Then replace the cured rock with infested rock n repeat again till all rock is free of caulepra. Might take a while but u have time n at the end all ur rock will b ready for the 215

[Europhyllia]

Honestly even if I lost about 200 bucks worth of rock I'd be okay with that. It's the filtration I am worried about. One at a time might be doable though.
I am still considering different urchins and a scopas tang as well.
It's sort of nice to plan this so far ahead so I can try different things before the actual move...

[txg8gxp]

How long until you setup the new tank? Could you get a big tub and setup a tank to cure the dry rock only in. It would be nice to start will all new rock.

[Europhyllia]

The dry rock comes 99 percent pre cured (as in free of organic matter). It just doesn't have the bacteria I need on it.
Maybe set up a tub and actually feed it etc as if it was in the aquarium?
Would it be doable to get rock to a level where it could immediately take over all of the filtration of a fully stocked tank?
I bet it will be another 5 months or so until I am ready to swap tanks since all of the other stuff (vortechs, sand, etc. will be costly as well...)

[txg8gxp]

Yes, I'm sorry... that is what I mean. Add a fish or two, a light and that should help get everything going.



The dry rock comes 99 percent pre cured (as in free of organic matter). It just doesn't have the bacteria I need on it.
Maybe set up a tub and actually feed it etc as if it was in the aquarium?
Would it be doable to get rock to a level where it could immediately take over all of the filtration of a fully stocked tank?
I bet it will be another 5 months or so until I am ready to swap tanks since all of the other stuff (vortechs, sand, etc. will be costly as well...)

[Europhyllia]

eek I wouldn't want any of my sweet fish in a curing tank. I'd be okay with just feeding the rocks though... ;)

[jrsatx20]

Put some black mollies in there and then give the babies to ace to feed his lionfish.

[Europhyllia]

Put some black mollies in there and then give the babies to ace to feed his lionfish.
No way. I would consider teh black Mollys my sweet fish as well. lol

[tebstan]

. . . I'd be okay with just feeding the rocks though... ;)

LOL... I did that. I just didn't tell anyone since it made me sound crazy.

[Europhyllia]

Okay I ordered my two new Vortechs (already have 2). Yikes. Would have never guessed that the powerheads would turn out to be the most expensive part of my system!

Would anybody like to chime in in regards to how best to combine
a Jawfish
with
a working DSB

From what I've been reading the Jawfish settles in his/her favorite burrow and shouldn't disturb the rest of the sandbed too much anymore after that.
So my concern is particle size.
Read some interesting stuff on Shimek's website: http://ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html
From that it looks like the Aragamax Sugarfine would be perfect (see caribsea link here (http://caribsea.com/pages/products/dry_aragonite.html) )
However for the jawfish it appears the Super Reef would be a perfect mix (again see above link)
Which also brings up depth
Some sites say best DSB depth is between 4" and 6"
As far as jawfish go some suppliers say minimum of 3", the more jawfish-centric sites (link (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/hcs3/index.php)) though recommend a minimum of 6".
I was thinking 7" sounded nice but will that be too deep for a good DSB?
One concern of course with DSB is detritus accumulation but I am hoping with 4(!) MP40 Vortech rocking that tank stuff should stay suspended pretty well...
So... what sand/how deep to choose?

[BIGBIRD123]

I use a 3-4" DSB and we have a Pearly Jawfish and Randles Goby in Cheri's tank. I have a mated pair of Yellow Watchmen Gobies and a Tiger Pistol Shrimp. The one thing I would suggest is to make sure your rock are stable because when they dig, things shift. Cheri has the fine Black sand and I have the medium grade Aragonite, both seem to work fine.

[Europhyllia]

The one thing I would suggest is to make sure your rock are stable because when they dig, things shift.
I saw two solutions to this online:
a) put rock in first, then add sand
or
b) place rock on rack racks (never seen a rock rack though - I'm assuming it's some kind of egg crate structure the rock sits on so you don't waste liverock just to have it buried for several inches under the sand)

[ErikH]

Karin, as you swap things from tank to tank, take a minute to scrub the rocks with a fingernail scrubber. Put those in the sump. In a week, scrub the other affected rocks and let them sit another week. After that, you should be good!

Make sure that new sand is dry and not live. Alot of times, if not most, those bags of live sand are just bags of death. Let your rock seed your sand.

I didn't even lose a coral when I moved from the small tank to the big tank. I also used ALOT (40g or so) of tap water right from the hose.

Run some new WELL RINSED carbon (some believe excess dust causes HLLE) and some GFO in full quantity for your tank to ensure you don't battle cyano. I am waiting for my order from BRS and the cyano is looking nasty. 0 detectable phosphates, so I ordered 4 of the Koralia Evo 1400 in case it is a flow issue.

Make sure your bulbs are the same color too! I just replaced mine. Good time to do it. :)

Good luck, we're all rooting for you. :)

[ErikH]

Oh and I don't think 7" matters. :) In my old tank I bought some stuff from AD that was all kinds of misc broken shells etc. which the jawfishers like to line their tunnels with. I coupled that with varied size sand. Oolithic on the bottom, all the way up changing to a larger size from there. It looked great from outside the tank.

[Europhyllia]

Thanks. Yes all of the sand in the link I am considering is dry sand. :) Haven't bought 'live sand' in a decade or so... lol
Gabe gave me a very good price on that sand (better than even online plus no shipping charge!) so once I got the cash for the sand and figure out what kind I want to go with I'll stock up.
Good idea about upping the filtration.
I was even thinking of purposefully feeding very heavy the week or two leading up to the swap to maximize bacteria growth on the rocks and in the pellet reactor, etc. and then go easy for the first couple of weeks in the new tank.

[hobogato]

some good suggestions already here karin, i will echo some of them with my experience. the three that i have in the classroom setup have established two areas to burrow. they are sometimes all three in one of them and sometimes one moves to the other location for a while - not sure why. as far as particle size, they will search the tank for fragments of rock to decorate and fortify their dens, so if you just put some various sized pieces of tiny rubble, they will find it and use it. the sand bed in that tank if very functional as a dsb and is about 7"+. it is a mix of everything people here donated including sugar fine, reef grade, crushed coral and a little bit of rubble.

[ErikH]

Oh you have to attend a class about hoarding from DT. Otherwise you will not max your hoarding potential.

[Europhyllia]

some good suggestions already here karin, i will echo some of them with my experience. the three that i have in the classroom setup have established two areas to burrow. they are sometimes all three in one of them and sometimes one moves to the other location for a while - not sure why. as far as particle size, they will search the tank for fragments of rock to decorate and fortify their dens, so if you just put some various sized pieces of tiny rubble, they will find it and use it. the sand bed in that tank if very functional as a dsb and is about 7"+. it is a mix of everything people here donated including sugar fine, reef grade, crushed coral and a little bit of rubble.
Thanks. Sounds like I can stop being anxious about the perfect sand size ;)

[Europhyllia]

Just ordered the clear mesh from David for the mesh tops for the new tank!

[txg8gxp]

I can't wait to see the new tank, I know it will be a great one.

[justahobby]

For rockwork, I've enjoyed reading this threads (lots of pics for ADD): http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1807317&page=2

Is the jawfish your reason for going DSB? Or going DSB opens up the idea of getting a jawfish? Have you thought about a RDSB?

[Europhyllia]

I already have a DSB and I like the idea of a DSB. I don't like the particle size I have right now though.
I also love small interesting fish! The jawfish seems very intersting and not very big. Seems to fit right into my kinda tank.
Especially now that I always have a tank cover anyway.
Very interesting rock structure things! My rocks already have coral on it so I am not sure how much time I would have for drilling things and keeping it out of the water without experiencing some die off and cycling?
I think it's going to be a really intense 1 day project either way to just get everything out of the 125, receive the 215, fill the 215 back up, etc. I'll need a lot of ukulele for sure with the kids interrupting and me being anxious about everything making a good transition... lol
Maybe Erik can chime in and say how long it took him to swap everything around.

[Jordan N.]

Glad to hear you're upgrading! I'm sure it will look great once it's all said and done. :bigsmile:

I missed this thread because of the site upgrade so I'll just leave some general thoughts. (My bookmark was broken and I assumed the site was down.)

I would definitely get rid of the caluerpa infested rocks if it was my tank --An upgrade is just too good of a chance to pass up. I would hate to see it spread back through the tank. I'm also just a fan of aquariums that have less rock then normal though. If you can set up the tank before the big move here is what I would just cycle the way the freshwater guys do. Just set up the tank with only the sand and add ammonia to kick off the cycle. If you have the sand bed all cycled by upgrade time you shouldn't have any really die off when you add all the rock and live stock. If you can't set it up before hand you're feeding heavily coming up to the move sounds like a good idea to me....

Also, have you considered adding a small group of Jawfish? I've seen them kept in a colony a few times and it's really neat --From what I've heard they have their own little social hierarchy. The idea of watching their social interactions seems really cool to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ6T22OlD1U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol_UTvwhtCw
http://www.oceanfootage.com/video_clips/RF11_108

And finally, just for fun, some pictures of gorgonians in their natural environment I had laying around for some inspiration.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9981/1372thechimneys.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1976/bo261.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8633/74736045fluqdqfs.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3365/11131868bebeeohqslfs.jpg

Anyways, I'll be watching as this progresses. :ph34r:

[RayAllen]

Karin looks like a good plan coming together. Your close attention to details and your goal will make this quite a tank.

I you dont mind me asking, I also need to get my tank up asap and need sand. Where are you buying your sand. You can pm me if youd like. I dont need as much as you for my 180 FOWLR because im not going reef but id like to get some good quality sand.

Buy 9 bags (40lbs) of Super Reef Dry Sand ~ $240

[Europhyllia]

pm-ed...

I think I have decided on all new rock at this time.
It's another 300 bucks but hopefully will make it all worthwhile.

Next concern will be to get encrusting corals and small critters off the old rocks...

[ismvel]

Next concern will be to get encrusting corals and small critters off the old rocks...
Not that I have done it, but take a dremel and cut around the encrusted sections of the rocks.....sounds easy enough in theory :)

[Europhyllia]

lol. I've got to get a real bit/disk for the dremel. I've been using the disposable disks and sent a whole pack of them flying already...

[txg8gxp]

Aquacave has diamond bits pretty cheap. Depending on how big, and what kind of rock... a screwdriver and hammer would work fine.

[Europhyllia]

I have started the gradual tear down.
I am taking it one rock at a time. I remove one from the display (starting with the most caulerpa) to the sump, wait a couple of days and then remove it from the sump.
I've decided the safest way to recyle the rock is to turn them into dry rock.
Since I have quite a bit of worms and stuff in them I soak the rocks in feshwater which causes all of the critters to come out of the rock. Hopefully that will make it easier to cycle the rocks later on (no mummified dead critters to decompose inside)
After that they will be dried outside.
My new dry rock will arrive tomorrow. I probably could have used a lot of my old/now drying dry rock if I would have had a better plan. Oh well...

I am excited to start playing with the rocks tomorrow. I'll put up a few pics to let you help me decide! :)

[acropoorer]

Hey Karin, if you are using mostly dry rock plan on a long cure time. I am at 5 weeks on mine and still have high nitrates. It only took 3 weeks with fresh live rock on my last tank. The anaerobic stuff is slow to develop if it's not already started in the rock as it is in the wet rock.

[Europhyllia]

.
Hey Karin, if you are using mostly dry rock plan on a long cure time. I am at 5 weeks on mine and still have high nitrates. It only took 3 weeks with fresh live rock on my last tank. The anaerobic stuff is slow to develop if it's not already started in the rock as it is in the wet rock.
Interesting. What kind of dry rock are you using?
I used Marcosrock last time with great results and am trying out BRS this time (should arrive tomorrow).
I did use Fritz last time and plan on doing so again so I am cheating a little and since it will take me awhile to get everything paid for for the upgrade I will have a few months to cycle it anyway.
The Marcorock stuff though came 99.9% precycled.
I jsut find it easier to find really nice dry rock. Most liverock is much denser and solid. I like the light weight, porous nature of the Fiji dry rock.

[acropoorer]

.
Interesting. What kind of dry rock are you using?
I used Marcosrock last time with great results and am trying out BRS this time (should arrive tomorrow).
I did use Fritz last time and plan on doing so again so I am cheating a little and since it will take me awhile to get everything paid for for the upgrade I will have a few months to cycle it anyway.
The Marcorock stuff though came 99.9% precycled.
I jsut find it easier to find really nice dry rock. Most liverock is much denser and solid. I like the light weight, porous nature of the Fiji dry rock.
I got my rock from BRS as marco rock quit carrying the fiji and only supplies the mined rock. The mined rock is junk if you want any kind of biological filter for nitrate removal -- just to dense (it truly is rock). I used pukani rock which had a lot of stuff left in it but is far lighter than fiji (240 lbs was more than I needed for my 360). The brs pukani has a lot of hidden dead stuff in it (my guess is sponge) but you really can't see it on the surface. It does have a slight odor, but it is dry. I soaked mine for a week in RO/DI with three complete water changes and still had plenty of ammonia when I cycled in salt water.

Precycled dry rock is misleading. You could rinse and soak dried live rock till it is near sterile but it still has to cycle. Difference is, you would need to add something to get the nitrogen cycle going to develop your bio filter. The long pole in the tent is the anaerobic bacteria that has to develop inside the rock (same stuff can also be developed in a deep sand bed, the black stinky stuff). Fresh live rock will still have some established anaerobic bacteria in it and comes up quicker. It also has lots of dead junk on it to start the nitrogen cycle. Granted, you have to wait to put anything in tank, but at the end of the cycle you will have a good start on your bio filter and can add new loading to the system fairly fast. With dry rock the end of the cycle is slow to develop (anaerobic bacteria colonies), but the surface bacteria that consume ammonia and nitrite are fairly fast.

So, even if the dry rock is very clean and ammonia free in a week, it's filtration capability for the nitrogen cycle will be poor. In fact, to some degree it could be to clean as it is usually the junk in the rock that creates your first cycle and your initial bio filter. If not, it is the first animals and food that create your first cycle. Wouldn't be an issue if it is your first tank and you are slowly adding stuff over months, but it is a huge issue if you want to move all your stuff from an existing tank into your new tank with new rock. If you are like me, you would want to do this in a few days or a week, but that will crash your new system and a lot of or all of your stuff would die. It has to be done very slowly since you are not transferring your established biological filter (your old rock and sand).

I guess I'm just impatient and don't have a lot of experience with starting from zero using dry rock. Oh, and I was very happy with the rock I got from brs. What kind are you getting?

[Europhyllia]

Eek. I am hoping I am not getting the one you refered to as inferior! lol
I LOVED the Fiji rock I got from Marcorocks and went with BRS because -as you know- marco didn't have the fiji anymore.
I got the 'Reef Saver' Fiji from BRS. Couldn't see what the difference was between the reef saver and the regular fiji (link (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/eco-rox-fiji-dry-rock))

I am running a media reactor with biopellets (link (http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?57606-NP-Bio-Pellets-I-m-intrigued%21&highlight=pellets)) on my current tank for n/p control and will add some more pellets shortly. I will bring that to the new system. It will be a total of 2000 ml pellets. I am hoping that will help some as far as nitrate goes.

[Europhyllia]

Well it looks like I screwed up!
I did order the mined rock.

[Europhyllia]

Okay I calmed down. lol
Did some reading on RC and comparing to other sources.
Apparently the BRS Reef Saver is the same thing as the MarcosRock Key Largo or the Reefcleaners Ancient Reef Rock (link ) (http://reefcleaners.org/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=106&category_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=34)
Wish I would have known our sponsor store Reefcleaners carries that rock.
Anyway. I was prepared to send it back but I think I'll keep it now.
I am recycling some of my primo fiji signature and can keep that in the sump. I also am still planning on a 7" sandbed so anaerobic areas for denitrification should be plenty in this tank.
I like the idea of not taking anything from a living reef so buying the fossilized reef rock mined from an inland source will be my contribution to preserving the reefs. :)

[Mr Cob]

Got pics? Curious what it looks like.

[Europhyllia]

Oh there will be pictures... as soon as the UPS man gets here! lol
I'll try out some scapes and post a poll! :)

Here's an interesting view on rock and sand by the way...
http://www.chucksaddiction.com/rock.html

[txg8gxp]

The rock I have is the key largo rock and I really like it.

[Europhyllia]

Here it is.
Compared to the Pukani(BRS)/SignatureFiji(Marco) the ReefSaver is a lot heavier.
I do think it's porous enough though. Has lots of tiny holes lacing the rock and bigger holes tunneling all throughout.
http://www.dominopads.com/reefsaver1.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/reefsaver2.jpg

Here is 100 pounds of it in my living room in a pretend tank with 215g dimensions and a pretend 7" sand bed:
http://www.dominopads.com/tankwithsand.jpg

As you can see the rocks will disappear in the sand so...
either build a rock rack that lifts them 7 inches off the floor.
Or consider the buried part when drilling and fastening them together and build the viewable area in large part with the rock I have in my current tank (recycled)

[Mr Cob]

Nice rock. Much more porous than I had expected.

[Europhyllia]

I think it will work fine. I may just use it mostly for base and continue to remove one of my 'better' rocks at a time and dry them out to get rid of the caulerpa for good and then cycle them all together.
It will take a couple of months but it will be okay.
If I skip the rock rack and use the reefsavers straight in the ground I'll also use less sand and still should have plenty of sand area for a couple of jawfish

[Europhyllia]

Rock removal is going well. I just remove one rock every other day depending on size. So far no diatom spikes. :)
It's kind of sad seeing a half torn down tank. Makes me not want to look at it much.
It's fun to frag stuff off the rocks though.
I got a set of nice fragging instruments and I am able to completely extract the corals and fit them onto the plugs without any algae. :)
I will need to make another frag rack. I already ran out of room. I will have lots of encrusting stuff to place into the new tank and some for selling on.
The fragging is the only thing that makes the sad looking tank bearable.
I am hoping the rock 'extraction' will be finished in 4 weeks or so so that the cycling can begin. I am guessing that will last for another 8 weeks.

[txg8gxp]

Fragging is tons of fun....:)

[Europhyllia]

as I am continuing to remove rock I have noticed how much better the anthias are schooling with more open space.
It's kind of interesting to be able to observe the animals in the changing environment
The 6 extra inches of sand area in front will be nice. I might really go with a more minimalistic look as far as rock goes...

[kkiel02]

Karin I have a 3" sandbed and faced the problem you are having as the first layer of rocks is nearly under the sand on some. I cant imagine a 7" sandbed but Im sure there is a way around it. You will love the new space out front also. Have you picked up your new tank?

[Europhyllia]

No way to have 2 6ft tanks sitting in the living room for a few months, Kevin. I'll wait till my rock has cycled and I am really ready to move it over.
It won't be anything super snazzy or custom. Just your standard glass RR 215 gallon tank. :)

I am still playing with the rocks right now trying to create open space for the active swimmers and hidey caves for the others...
http://www.dominopads.com/rock215.jpg

[Jarob]

Oooo I am really liking that rock setup in that last picture!! awesome arches! I am a huge fan of the minimalistic look myself.

[Europhyllia]

Was just talking to my husband about the new tank and he said since I am just going to do this once why bother with such a little difference going from a 125 to a 215.
215 actually already seemed like a nice difference to me.
Maybe I should go a little taller with a 240?
What do you think?

[txg8gxp]

I don't like tall tank, to hard to work on. But you like gorgs, so It might be nice.

[tebstan]

I *like* my tall tank, I just hate trying to reach the bottom of it.
How hard would it be for you to maintain it with that height difference?
As much as I whine about the problems I have, I don't think I'd want to go smaller.

[Europhyllia]

Keep in mind I
- do like gorgs
- will have a 7" sandbed anyway

so a 29" tall (215g) would only be 22" deep
a 31" tall (240) would really only be 24" deep from rim to sandbed surface

right now I have a 24" tall with a 4" sandbed and want more room on top

I'll go measure my monkey arms real quick...

[txg8gxp]

I forgot about the 7" sandbed. Go with the 240.

[Europhyllia]

armpit to finger tips: 26" - actually being able to use pincer grasp: 24"

[tebstan]

a 31" tall (240) would really only be 24" deep from rim to sandbed surface



armpit to finger tips: 26" - actually being able to use pincer grasp: 24"


Go for it! :bigsmile:

[txg8gxp]

You plan on getting a standard reef ready or custom tank?

[Europhyllia]

I think I just figured out that the largest standard comes in 215 (All Glass, etc.) so that alone would probably make the 240 quite a bit more costly. Am I right?

[txg8gxp]

I would think so, because then you have all the options of rimless, overflow position, starfire glass, etc.

[Bill S]

Karin,

I'd go with the 215. I hate that mine is as deep as it is - and as a fully packed reef, it's hard to place corals where they get light - and if you go 240, you might need 400w lights to grow all the way down. I never want to have 400w lights again! It's also a LONG reach - I was always getting my shirts wet. With a 6 or 7" sandbed, that puts you at 22". That's a LOT of sand, BTW.

[jroescher]

I never want to have 400w lights again!

Why?? Just curious.

[Europhyllia]

Lighting is a good point. I really wanted to keep my ATI fixture.
I do love NPS but a row of all suns just on the bottom would look strange.
Maybe back to 215...

[Bill S]

Why?? Just curious.

400w x 3 - 1200w of HEAT = one big chiller.

250w x 3 = 750w of Heat. This is 62% of the heat the 400s make. All to light the bottom 5" of the tank.

[allan]

Karin,

When I went from a one hundred to a one-ninety I was shocked by the increase in volumn. In fact there was a bit of getting used to on the front end. I remember thinking what the heck did I get into. Now that I've had it for awhile I'm completely stoked. After all that water is in there the only time I'm reminded of how much fluid is in my tank is when I contemplate a water change.

You know I have long arms, really long arms... almost freakishly long arms... almost... well, I still get my shirt sleeve wet (wet right now) trying to reach the bottom about mid-way back. As far as getting all the way to the back of the tank, I usually shower (deoderant) and work topless... I think I even got my cheek and ear wet working all the way in the back of the tank.

Bottom line, it's a challenge and difficult... never a problem since it's what makes it interesting.

[Europhyllia]

I already come back out of the tank with wet bangs right now! ;)
I think Bill convinced me about the 215 gallon tank.
Got my rockscape done and simulating a 29" tank looks just right
http://www.dominopads.com/rockscape521.jpg

http://www.dominopads.com/rockscape521coral.jpg

[Gseclipse02]

haha love the photochop

[Europhyllia]

Getting excited now. I was measuring my tank and stand to determine what height I wanted my new tank to be and I guess in my mind I always thought of my tank as a 24" tall but it actually was only 22" so 29" tall will be quite a bit taller! :)
I've decided to go with a 32" stand. Yes that will mean if I actually want to get into it I'll need a stepstool. :D
But I will be able to walk up to it and actually see some fish rather than just the top of my light fixture.
I've decided to empty the old tank temporarily which will hopefully make it possible to push it across the tile floor to a different spot so I can start setting up the new tank and have both up and running at the same time.

[alton]

Come on Karin some of us are getting impatient waiting here? Seven pages and still no new tank? Just joking, hey I should be only 20 minutes away from you and with my last night of teaching behind me I can offer my help if you need it.

[hobogato]

glad you are getting excited about the tank again :)

really looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

[Europhyllia]

Alton I am getting impatient too! lol
With the starfire thing it took a long time to get quotes (in fact I still don't have any weeks later) but I have decided to go with regular glass and I think one of the sponsors found me a good deal on a good tank.
We'll just figure out all the details this morning and then I'll finalize the purchase.
Even though the tank is a stock size it will still take 4-6 weeks. It's made by DSA under their OV brand.
At the same time I am working on the stand. I have some things I'd like that don't come with the stock stand so I am working on getting a quote for a custom stand too.
I am hoping in a month or two it will all be in my dining room.
The tank is going to have corner overflows so it will look kind of like this:
http://www.deepseaaquatics.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93&Itemid=120
I just want to get away from the fat center brace so Gabe's checking to see if they can make it in euro bracing...

If that doesn't work out I can still go with the regular all glass aquarium and it would look like this I think:
http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/011/17964_400wh.jpg
plus two overflows in the back

[aquasport24]

Another option is instead of one fat center brace, you can have 3 or 4 small braces.

[hobogato]

yep, i had two 4" wide braces on my 240 - they were not as obtrusive. still, if i were buying a new big tank, i would make it a brick (no center brace). it costs more up front, but it is soooo nice having the entire top open for easy access and no shadows from the lighting.

[allan]

Karin,

A buddy of mine and I have been looking for an excuse to build a stand/canopy or just a stand. Wouldn't cost you anything outside of materials and truth be told we have a lot of lumber so it wouldn't run you much at all.

Let me know what you think and we can start this weekend.

Not a business, nor a desire to create one. We both like working with wood and think we can build something noteworthy. Nor any desire what so ever of charging one iota over cost of material that we end up needing. I'm thinking it would be less than one bill. And if you don't like it, you don't have to take it we would absorb the cost of material.

[Europhyllia]

Wow Allan. What a great offer!!!
I actually already have somebody on the project so it would be pretty flaky to back out of that now. Plus I think I'll probably be kind of a tough customer. Not the kind you want to endure for a 'materials only compensation' job. lol
Got to have big doors! With unobtrusive small locks to keep the kids out, a door for the sump on the side. Maybe even a matching top off container, etc. In a nice shade of cognac (not too yellow and not too red!)

[Europhyllia]

Ace I was considering brick especially with Bill's 215 still on the market but it just seems so heavy and I will need to add mesh top panels anyway to keep the blenny in.
I'll see what my options are this morning. The DSA/OV tank only comes in a 240 and I was leaning more towards 215 now.

[Bill S]

My 215 is off the market - it has water, driftwood, and some fish in it (bristlenosed plecos and rams). Plants are in quarantine. Discus will be purchased in June, and will go into my old fuge for growout. All set up.

Karin, do yourself a HUGE favor. Only go brick. There isn't a single person that's had a brick tank that would not do that again the next time. Having dealt with braced tanks all my life, I can't believe what a huge difference it makes. It also makes you feel more secure in the tank - 3/4" glass is thick! And for a reef tank with 4-6" of sand, 29" is PLENTY deep.

[Europhyllia]

Lol. So you really did go freshwater!
I am sure the brick is terrific but I just don't want to spend the money on a new brick right now. Or figure out how to even move a tank in that weight category in here.

[Europhyllia]

Okay tank is on order and paid for:
Ocean View by Deep Sea Aquatics. Standard 215 gallon RR model with corner overflows and euro bracing. :)
I think the stand is in the works too. Got to double check...

[txg8gxp]

Very cool, can't wait to see it set up. You useing your ATI t5 light?

[Europhyllia]

yes keeping the ATI -part of the reason I didn't go for the 240g

[Europhyllia]

My husband had some concerns about the custom made stand so we reconsidered. He's putting some money towards the stand since he gets to vote on it so that's good.
:)
I just talked to the Deep Sea Aquatics people to help us decide between oak and pine and WOW! The oak stand has a lot of design features to offer over the pine.
Nice big doors. Ends that come off (open door and push out end) so you can slide in a huge sump later on and then just put the ends back on without anybody knowing there are opening on the ends. Looks just like a regular furniture grade stand.
So oak it is. I am getting kind of excited about it now...

[txg8gxp]

Sound like the oak stand is the way to go, It's not my tank and I'm getting alittle excited. I'm really curious to see how your new setup turns out.

[aquasport24]

I think V-rotate from RC has a stand where you can slide the sump in nd out for easy access.

[aquasport24]

Make sure they'll have enough reinforcement for those FOUR Vortechs....lol.... WOW 60x turn over ratios if you have them all max out.

[Europhyllia]

I'm itching to try them in pulse/wave mode.
My old tank is looking super sad right now. Can't wait to get it out of my sight!

[aquasport24]

I'd love to try that wave mode in my tank too,but not recomend for rimless tank though.

[Europhyllia]

ordered my new skimmer today -the Elos NS2000. Got it at a very good price only 2 months old from somebody that got it with their Elos system but expanded the stock system beyond the skimmer's capacity. :D

[Europhyllia]

tomorrow is probably going to be the most stressful day in the whole switch.
I am going to empty the 125g tank, place the livestock in tubs and QT tanks and try and slide the tank over to a different spot. Then refill and run until the new tank (which will be in the old tank's current spot) is cycled.
That way I can move pieces over one at a time without feeling rushed. And everything will be in place and cycled in the big tank rather than cycle the rocks and then place rocks and livestock all at the same time.
I am making 44g extra water just in case but ideally I'll just pump back in what I take out.
Alton loaned me his 100g tub, pump, hose and heater so I feel well equipped but still can't wait for this do be over...

[Mr Cob]

Good luck Karin! I'm sure it will go fine. Lots of work though!

[Europhyllia]

I am halfway through. So glad I got Alton's tub and pump. That will help a lot.
It's still just as horrid as I had imagined.
Not looking forward to disassembling the 125 AGAIN in a few weeks. I am thinking of selling it drained but dirty for a $25 discount. lol
Blech this is so not fun.
Taking a lunch break right now.
Then move the 125 to the new spot, put rocks, water and livestock back in. Sounds easy...

[txg8gxp]

Sounds like a ton of work...but it will be worth it when you get the new tank.

[Europhyllia]

done. I still need to figure out what to do with the light. Actually take the mounting hardware down and install it over the old tank. Or just rig something up to hold it over the old tank and leave the actual mounting kit in the ceiling over the new tank's future spot...
I would hate to do this for a living. Am not envying Gabe and the other LFS people. It's on tile and it's my house so a little spill here and there is no biggie. If I had to do this while protecting the livestock AND trying not to make a total mess of the place I don't think I could do it.
My hands are all itchy, achey and puffy.
On the plus side I captured all of the critters that are usually hard to get like the peppermint shrimp, etc.
It's over ... for now :)

[kkiel02]

Glad that went well for you. I am dreading moving as well but my plan is to setup a 100 g in the new place and move the livestock to that while I get the new tank going. I bet you cant wait to get the new tank up and running!