new sps pest?

[hobogato]

no, this is not a typo. i just found acro eating nudibranchs in my tank.

not acro eating flatworms - been there before.

not monti eating nudis - although i wonder if they eat both...

here are some pics

damage pic
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC064661024x768.jpg

close-up
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC064691024x768.jpg

better close-up
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06467.jpg

bigger
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC064671024x768.jpg

i could find no info on this, so i will likely set up a small tank and try to keep them alive to study them. i will be getting a wrasse or two for my tank to eradicate them. if anyone has an acro frag or monti frag that they would be willing to sacrifice to help me study these, please let me know.

[Neptune@gabesfish]

swing by ill help

[Mr Cob]

Ace, I can bring a acro frag by when i return your fish trap....just keep them alive until then...lol

Were they only on this colony? Really tough to make them out....nice camo. Find any eggs?

[greatwhite@AlamoAquatics]

hey ace this might be a dumb question but you think acro crabs would kill those guys? i dont know too much about acros, but i thought they(acro crab) were suppose to protect the acro they live on..

[Mr Cob]

^good thinking Ed....but I don't think so....see this thread: (guy had the same thing and at the bottom it shows he also had acro crabs....unless they couldn't keep up with the nudis)

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t150770.html

[hobogato]

this is the second colony that has started receding from the base up, the other died two days after it started to recede (my seaworld selago :( ) i will be checking the other acros i have, but a wrasse should take care of them in the tank. i do want to keep them alive so i can study what dips might be effective in getting rid of them. it is hard to see in the pics, but it looks like there are eggs underneath each one - they look similar to aefw eggs. at first, that is what i thought it might be, but there are no bite marks like aefw usually cause, just total recession from the base up.

[hobogato]

i read that thread, no one believed him that it was nudis - even tho you can see a pic of one in one of his pics. i did post on rc as well, i expect to get hammered about it there :)

[Mr Cob]

Guess some people think that our ocean has been completely discovered and that it is so unlikely that by keeping a reef you might discover something new. HAHA...that cracks me up.

[Salty]

Another reason to pass a law against nudes!!! I hate these things

[corruption]

Fun -- no wonder my SPS have all receded. I showed Jana your pics, Ace, and she recognized it immediately -- as she was describing what she had seen, she was dead on for its appearance, before I even showed her the pic... Yeah, anyone who thinks they know it ALL about marine keeping is fooling themselves :)

Karin -- I'm not sure what can be done for a solution.... yet. Nudi's are definitely some of the more untread territories in saltwater.

-Justin

[aquasport24]

WOW, that is crazy, maybe a tank full LPS and Softies are not too bad after all. Please keep us update.

[clone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrOjKpSZ8PI

[stoneroller]

Freshwater usually does pretty good for killing nudies. Like salt on a slug they can't handle it.

[BIGBIRD123]

Eric Borneman also has some research using potassium permanganate @ 50mg/1000ml for 1.5 hrs on the Nudis. This was the best combination for irradicating the pests and causing the least amount of stress to the coral. He has also has some research and additional input from others that stated that Monti eating Nudis were actually getting an appetite for SPS. With this dosage, all Nudis and eggs died and no harm to the coral and it's tissue except where the nudis had devoured.

HTH

[BIGBIRD123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrOjKpSZ8PI

P-wood...lol

[saabtech]

holy smokes! thats nuts! about as weird as my ribbon worm..

[hobogato]

thanks kevin and steve, been out of the research loop on this stuff for a while, so i have a lot of catching up to do. this gives me a place to start. i got a tank to grow them in, and it appears there are three of them on the coral pictured. ill post some pics once the tank clears up and i have everything in there.

[hobogato]

sorry to hear that justin, hopefully i will figure out something. for the time being, you may want to try iodine dip and manual removal of the eggs as that seemed to work ok for the guy in the thread posted earlier.

[BIGBIRD123]

Here is the research article by Eric...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php

[hobogato]

thanks

here is a pic of where i will trying to grow them so i can figure out how to kill em :D

6 gallon tank with halogen lights (may try to change them to led at some point). once it clears up, i will put the coral pictured in along with a couple of other brown out acros. i am only going to put in acros, because the first question i want to answer is "are they eating the acros or just irritating them?" if they survive and reproduce with only acropora for food, then that will answer that one and i can start looking at how to kill them.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06475.jpg

[Mr Cob]

very cool Ace. Love the tank too.

[hobogato]

yeah, after this study is finished we will likely keep it for a small spearing mantis :)

[corkyGramma]

Ace I have a monti I can sacrifice, lmk or call me.

[hobogato]

thanks yvonne, after i try with acros only, i may try some montis too to see if they eat both.

[fishypets]

Ace do you dip all corals before placing them in your display?

[hobogato]

i knew this question would come up... no, even tho i know better, i did not. i really was not planning on doing sps at all in this tank, but when that changed, i was unprepared to add the ones i did. the only thing i did was inspect very closely for aefw damage and eggs as well as shake them about i salt water a bit and look anything that was dislodged before adding them in. not sure if a dip would have helped with these tho, that is one of the things i want to try to find out.

[mikedelgado]

holey smokes! good luck with the experiment. how about electrocuting the little buggers!
lol

[hobogato]

ok, water is all cleared up. special thanks to gabe for providing some more food for these little devils.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06476.jpg

[corruption]

Ahhhh, I see whats really going on now... You just wanted an excuse to add a Fluval Edge to your collection! :bigsmile: j/k :)

As far as replacing those halogens (I heavily considered one of these before getting my BioCube) -- NanoTuners is expecting to offer LED replacement MR16 bulbs by May, and I should have 6 or so spare Cree XR-E cool white emitters in a few weeks I'd gladly toss your way :) All you'd need is some royal blues for the mix and a buckpuck/Meanwell to power em :)

-Justin

[hobogato]

i would never use this as an excuse to get another tank that could possibly house a mantis in the future :angel:

this morning, one of the three nudis i saw has moved to the very edge of the living tissue. i will be watching closely today to try to determine if it is eating the tissue.

here are a couple of pics

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06480.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06479.jpg

[hobogato]

a second one seems to be joining the first. the line of live tissue seems to have changed a tiny bit...

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06489.jpg

[StevenSeas]

from flipping back and forth between the pics, I too see a little regression in the live tissue. Man these suckers work quick

[hobogato]

last pic of the evening - looks like the living tissue line is moving very slowly. will know more as i keep track of them for the next couple of days.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/acro%20eating%20nudi/DSC06492.jpg

[BIGBIRD123]

Can you tell if it is from consumption or necrosis?

[hobogato]

it doesnt look like necrosis as the polyps are still out - even on the coralites right at the edge of the recession. also, the tissue looks thick and healthy, not the normal thin and drawn look you see before stn. hopefully they will stay here on this spot as it is very easy to get pics and it will be good to compare the pics for the next couple of days.

[BIGBIRD123]

These the only 2 you found?

[hobogato]

there are actually three on this coral, but i dont know where the third one went. there may be more in the main tank, but hopefully the wrasses will take care of them if there are. no other corals in the main tank are showing these symptoms.

[BIGBIRD123]

really weird, they do kind of look like the Monti-eating Nudis. The ones that I have seen pictures of have the phalanges looking disguise or camouflage.

[hobogato]

these look a bit different than the monti eating nudis that i have seen in real life and in pics. they are also much larger - about 1/8" long. they seem to have more cerata (finger like projections) than the MEN and the cerata seem to have more texture - possibly more numerous cnidosacs (storage area for the nematocysts it eats and keeps as a defense).

for comparison, here (http://www.melevsreef.com/id/monti_nudi.html) is a link with a pick of a MEN on melev's site.

ok, small update:
unfortunately, the acro in the pic has begun to rtn. hard to tell if that was caused by the nudi or just the change to a newly setup tank. of the other two acros in the tank with it, the one that looked best is unchanged and the one that was already receding has continued to recede and is almost gone. i am not going to remove any skeletons as there may be eggs on them. i have also lost sight of two of the three nudis.

it will be interesting to see if they reappear on the still healthy acro and what the result is if they do. ill keep ya posted.

[Gilbert]

I still have that small frag of the blue seaworld sps, when your problem is gone i'd gladly give it back so you can grow it out again.

[hobogato]

thanks gilbert

[ErikH]

Those Nudis are huge!

This sucks so bad Ace! :(

Good luck with your quest, as always, I will be tagging along... :thumbs_up:

[fishypets]

This blows my mind that you didn't dip! It took me one time to learn my lesson. Good luck

[hobogato]

i know clint.

found two of the nudis last night. one was on the original coral, way up under a piece of living tissue that is sloughing off, and the other had moved to the acro in the center of the tank (which is now a just a skeleton as it was receding when it was given to me and was completely dead before i found the nudi on it).

[aggman]

i guess this proves that no matter how much a company claims to eradicate pests or 'quarantine' you should always take the extra steps to prevent infestation.

i know a local shop has had an issue with this and basically had to restock, and based on the people posting, you probably all got it from these same tanks. hopefully they do something to help you guys out.

~alex

[hobogato]

well, all three acros that were in the tank have died and i have lost site of the nudis, so i guess this experiment is over. i would still be on the lookout for these when buying sps...

[txav8r]

Thanks for all the updates Ace.

[Gilbert]

So...
What is happening with you tank now?
Are you still hunting them down in the display?
Have you noticed any more coral loss in the display?
Update please!

[hobogato]

still have em in the display, and still seeing some coral damage here and there. this include acros and montis. i think the wrasses are keeping them from reaching plague proportions tho.

[Gilbert]

Man that must really suck...