How do you tell i fits ich ?

[Meslo]

My moms tank has been up and running for 5 or so months. It has 2 clowns, 1 tang, 3 wrasse.

She has tried to add another tang 3 times and each time the new tang has devolped white spots that look more like a film over the whole body than just white spots after 4-5 days. The spots start and totaly cover the fish in less than 12 hours after the 4 or 5 days of healthy looking and eathing. Then about 8-10 hours after the film appears the fish is dead.

I was told it was probly a bactierial infection from the First tang impaling the new tang with its spikes. From what I have read and saw Im thinking it was ich I have a pic of the fish just cant upload it at the moment. But will latter this after noon.

The original fish never showed signs of ICh thats why im unsure if the tank has ich or something eles.

Hope that made sence :) lol
Thanks

[Mr Cob]

That definitely sounds like Ich.

Read here for more information about Ich:
http://www.maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49040

Is your tank mature...has it properly cycled...first find out what is wrong with your system before attempting to add another fish?

Start by telling us more about your system.

[Meslo]

55 gal reef fish mix been up for 5ish months. about 70-80 lbs live rock 20 gal sump with cheto and 2" sand bed. DT has about an 1 to 1 1/2in sand bed. Water and temp have been good from after the first 2 months. Fish were added at the 2 month mark. They have never shown signs of ich its just the new fish that seem to get it. I know from reading that post that they mostlikly have it to and plan on treating them.
And the only reason more fish were added is because we thought it was a bactirial infection from the tangs fighting altho we never actualy saw anything more than some tail slapping that never lasted long it was not like brutal combat.
But after the third try we decided it might be something other than what we were told.

also misc snails crabs shrimp

any other info I missed ?
Thanks for the help

[Pennies2Cents]

Welcome to MAAST. Yes please tell about the setup and we can def. try to help ya out! :)

[Pennies2Cents]

What kind of tang is it?

[Mr Cob]

Yes, please be specific about what fish are in the tank and what fish you have tried to add?

[Europhyllia]

2 tangs in a small tank like a 55g could be pretty stressful for the fish.

[Meslo]

The tang that is living is a sailfin, the ones that did not make it were a powder brown,a yellow,and a purple.

The clowns are the basic orange and white. The wrasses are a mystery and a exquisite and a lubbucs fairy.

All are still fairly small under 3 inches.

[Valkim]

Part I
I had to split the post, to many words I do tend to get a little lippy...:bigsmile:

I would like to start by saying that I feel your pain, I myself learned the hard and expensive way, and I hope this information I’m about to share will save you time and money. This came from all the research I've conducted and let me tell you I have read many threads here on this forum as well as others about this marine disease.
There are several posts and threads in this Forum which describes the disease, choices for the cure, and the process to cure marine fishes of Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). It seems like a lot to read and it can get confusing. So here’s a short procedure to follow that refers to those posts that have all the details you’ll need.
I'm writing this in blunt, easy to read English (I hope). It may sound 'stern' but I am being blunt, short, to the point AND I'm sure what it is you need to do....:)
Before you start, you want to be as sure as you can be that you are dealing with Marine Ich. :sick: If you’re experienced, you probably know and can skip this part. If you are new to the hobby or have never come across this parasite before, you’ll want to search the Internet for photos of fish that are displaying this parasite.
If you have acquired a marine Tang of the Acanthurus sp. you'll want to go right to a treatment using Cupramine. This genus of fishes are being brought into the USA with such a high frequency of Marine Ich and Marine Velvet, that I recommend their treatment, right after being put into the quarantine tank (QT). In this case -- the only case -- a diagnosis isn't necessary. The choice of treatment is copper because only copper kills both Marine Ich and Marine Velvet.
Unfortunately, most of those photos you will find are of fishes with an advanced case of the disease, having many dozens to hundreds of spots. At the outset, your fish may only have a couple to a few. But those photos should give you an idea of what to look for. Marine Ich has many stages in its life cycle. The one we humans can see with our unaided eye is when the parasite is ready to leave the fish. The spot is white and about the size of a grain of salt or sugar. It can be found on fin or body of the fish. When severely infecting the gills (the parasite isn't seen, but. . .), the fish will flash (scratch) and/or breath rapidly (more than 100 swallows per minute).
So do the diagnostic step first.
I don’t care if you’re experienced or not, you must sort out the myths from the facts about this parasite.The better you know and understand what it is you’re dealing with, the better you will be at the cure and stopping future infections.
This part includes understanding that not only the fish you see with spots have been infected, but ALL THE FISH in the display system are infected and must be treated and cured at the same time.
You need to decide on the cure. There are two basic ones guaranteed to cure your fish: a copper treatment or a hyposalinity treatment. DON’T ask which one to use. Either works. Decide on which one you are most comfortable doing. Read about each cure so you can understand what each requires you to do. Choose the one you can handle best.
Some help on which one to choose:
If one or more fish is heavily infected with dozens or hundreds of spots, OR you have failed to help the fish during the past few weeks thinking it will get better on its own, then choose to do the copper treatment and use only Cupramine medication.
If one or more fish are having difficulty breathing, not eating and on the edge of death, do the Copper treatment (see above). HOWEVER, on the way to the quarantine tank you need to perform a freshwater dip. The dip does not cure the fish, but will help. EXCEPT only dip the fish for 5 minutes.

No Shortcuts, like I said I learned the hard and expensive way… Ed from Edaquatics can tell you
Buy the things you need to do the cure. The quarantine tank(s), the medication and the test kit (for copper), the refractometer (for hyposalinity), etc. DON’T come up with your own procedure. The procedure has worked for more than the 40 years it’s been used. Don’t try to improve upon it or take any shortcuts.
Start The Quarantine Tank(s) (QT)
Read about setting a QT up and do it. If you have a lot of fish to treat, then you can choose a large QT or multiple smaller QTs. Your decision again. To begin with, you can use display tank water in the QT. Both it and the fish are ‘infected’ so it doesn’t matter. AFTER that though, all water changes will be done with new salt water.

See next post

[Valkim]

Part II

Starting Out
Move all fish (those with and those without spots) to a quarantine tank and begin their cure. (NOTE: During the move DON'T do any freshwater dip unless the infection is REALLY bad -- hundreds of spots and/or the fish isn't eating because it's breathing so fast; and/or the fish flashes every minute. If you read up on the enemy you'll know that a fresh water dip NEVER cures fish of Marine Ich.) If you need help in how to catch your fish, keep in mind two things: These fishes (unless tank bred) were caught by people in a whole ocean or sea (and all you need to do is catch them in a small box) and; you're “smarter than a fish”like my cousin Ed once said…… (EdAquatics) for those who know him.
The Display System (and Tank)
Leave the display tank and the entire display system go fishless for no less than 8 weeks. Some people don’t seem to understand what this means. This means you can leave every other living thing in the display system, except fish. Please don’t ask if it’s okay to leave ....?... in the tank. If it isn’t a fish, then it’s okay to leave it in the display system! Some people want to take this opportunity to put into the display system additional clean up crew, corals, invertebrates of any kind, etc. It’s okay to do this, but the 8-week clock begins AFTER the last addition. Keep in mind this is only for Marine Ich. If you don’t routinely quarantine new marine life forms, you might be bringing any other kinds of fish diseases into the aquarium. BUT, with the 8-week fishless time, there won’t be any Marine Ich alive.
Sometimes it’s just better to tell the hobbyist DON’T add anything to the display system during this time. This is good advice.
What do do with the display system while it's going fishless: Keep feeding all other marine life. Add food to keep bacteria alive and working. Keep lights on as usual. Keep water quality up and continue with the usual maintenance. Keep water temperature at the high end of the range (about 78 to 80F). Keep all equipment going. Keep testing water for quality and maintain, maintain, maintain. This is a very good time to do substrate, rock, and decoration cleaning.

The Quarantine Tank
If the QT doesn’t have an active and working biological filter, you can still do either cure. You will need to start a biological filter going (see post on setting up the QT) and you will do water changes every time you detect ammonia and/or nitrites in the water. You will need to buy ammonia and nitrite test kits (not test strips) and test the water two or three times a day. Four if you feed often. You will need to remove all excess food and fish wastes. This you can do by siphon or by one of those sand cleaning pumps (manual) to pick up and filter out the debris.
NOTE: Even if you have an active and operating biological filter, still check the water for ammonia and nitrites. The fish might just be polluting too much and the filter has to catch up. So even with a biological filter running, CHECK the water daily for ammonia and nitrite and make a large water change if either or both are detected.
When you detect ammonia and/or nitrite you’ll need to do a large (over 80%) water change with new water.
You will need to control the water quality very well in the QT so the fish don’t ‘know’ any reduction in water quality during their cure. One part of that is pH. If you chose the hyposalinity treatment, it is easiest on the fish, but hardest on the hobbyist as is stated in that post. Controlling the pH will be a challenge since the water is so ‘thin’ that the chemicals/salts aren’t there to stabilize the pH.
Many recommend feeding the fish less during the cure so the water won’t be as polluted. I don’t go along with this approach. The fish needs good nutrition during this time – better than ever – not going on a diet or a reduction of food. The hobbyist has to compensate by doing more work on keeping the water quality high. Keep feeding the fish the best foods with vitamin and fat supplements in it.
All this extra effort of making large water changes when ammonia and/or nitrites are there could be reduced if the hobbyist had a biological filter running in the display system or display sump as suggested in the quarantine linked post. The active biological filter would be ready to go into a QT with display tank water and everything moves forward faster. But not having a biological filter is NO REASON to not start the treatment.
VERIFY the Fish are Cured
Don’t mess up now! After the treatment (either one you choose), hold the fish in the QT for no less than 4 more weeks in normal salt water (normal specific gravity AND without any detectable copper) to SEE if the fish are cured. If any sign of Marine Ich shows itself first be sure you have the correct diagnosis. If it is Marine Ich, do not despair – the procedure was contaminated somewhere along the line. Fortunately the fish aren’t back in the display so you can perform another (more careful) treatment.
The End Game
Fish are verified to be cured (see above). Display system has been fishless for no less than 8 weeks. Time for the cured fish to go home. If there were many fish, put one fish back in weekly until all are in. If the fish are small (under 1") put more in at one time. If fish are large, put in one at a time in two week intervals.
You’re Done
Don’t let it happen again. Use the quarantine process to prevent Marine Ich from getting into your display system....:bigsmile:

[Meslo]

Thanks much for stepping up and posting that very helpful info.

[Valkim]

Your welcome

Here is a link to a great site on Marine Ich and others:


www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html (http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html)