My Anthias are here!

[Europhyllia]

I've noticed that it's possible to buy established groups of anthias but they always come as trios (1 male with two females) - never more.
The other option would be to get all females and let the group establish themselves (established= having lived together in that group for a month or so).
I was really shooting for 1 male/3 females.
Which one would be preferably? The established group even if it was smaller than desired? Or is the figuring out pecking order not that bad and starting with all females okay too?

[Europhyllia]

I am a little freaked out by all the people trying to get anthias and then having them die. I hate it when fish dies. So I am looking for the most foolproof way to do this.
That's why the established groups/pre-quarantined& dewormed deals are more and more appealing to me.
That way if anybody was planning on dying they could already be done with that in the first month (before I would buy them!)
I am guessing that would be tough to do in a store front fish store because the fish would be bought up long before all the deworming, working out the hierarchy, accepting frozen food, etc. would be completed.
I'll have to think about how lucky I feel that week! lol

[Kristy]

Hey Karin,
Don't have much time today (still have not packed and I'm catching an early flight in the morning!) but I will give you the "short" answer...

1. There is no completely fool-proof way, just have to figure out the least risk.

2. The LFS can order from their suppliers whatever you want and you can look at it in their tanks before you buy it... that is one way to go. I bought my trio of bartlett's from Gabe's and watched them for a week or two before deciding to commit. They are beautiful and happy and a joy to watch - all three have survived.

3. The LEAST risky way to do it, in my opinion and experience (re-read my anthias article here) is to order online a group of fish that are already quarantined, eating, and have an "arrive alive" guarantee, from a supplier that you have confidence in and who uses the shortest chain of custody from ocean to your door. We need the fish to be as healthy as possible for the social battle they are about to face as we artificially re-group them.

4. Also, LEAST risky is to get all females and let the anthias sort out which will be the boss. You *could* still end up with a couple of your females being "alpha" females who will fight for that vacant position, but more than likely it will not be to the death.

The problem is that gender for the anthias is just not yes / no, male or female. There is a whole spectrum in between of definitely males, females that have begun to turn male but have not completely transformed, "alpha" females, and the more submissive females. Not a lot of folks can pick those out casually. And it is especially difficult to make out some of the subtle differences in coloration and form in the stressful conditions of the LFS (colors might not be showing true, lighting is often inadequate, often not swimming with fins flared for us to inspect whether the front dorsal fin has that beginning of an elongated spike). Their gender is really determined in relationship to the others in the group.

I have several times seen a group of anthias for sale in a LFS that were sent by the distributor as 1 male / X # of females and watched them closely, seeing what is clearly one male, two females that have already begun to turn male, a couple of "alpha" females, another female that will clearly be the submisive runt of the litter. These might work it out or they might "work it out" by killing off one another.


I've done it both ways successfully. I've had plenty of failures from the LFS and know others who have as well. I spoke with Bernie (lt128) before buying mine and he was pleased with his purchased from Live Aquaria. I also read a great article on melev's reef, highly recommend that you look for it (sorry no time to find the link today), from where Marc Levenson purchased his online and was very pleased with the results. I bought my three lyretails online and have been very pleased with them.

You might also wish to chat with Dr. Mark, I know he has two different groups of anthias in his two tanks and see what he recommends. He would have a unique perspective on this, as one of the owners of GCReef.

So much for this being a "short" answer! :)

[Europhyllia]

lol. Yes I definitely considered the Divers Den because of them being quarantined and matched up for awhile. But I inquired with DD and they said they NEVER offer anything other than trios at this time... and I really wanted more than 3.
On the regular LiveAquaria site they don't sex them. You buy them by size so that wouldn't be very helpful.
I am leaning towards BlueZoo because I've had such a good experience with them with everything 'special' I ever ordered from them. They do sell them by sex and they treat them for internal parasites, etc., start them on live brine but also start weaning them onto prepared foods, etc.
So that would be the in between solution to settling for a Diver's Den trio or buying local.
That's sort of the direction I am leaning towards.

[BSJF]

What about a trio of Disbars and pair of Barletts?

I had my first two disbars and did the quarantine myself on them (bought a trio locally and lost the male). The trio of disbars I got from DD worked well with the existing ones, but the existing ones hadn't been back in the display for very long when I added the newbies.

I like Bluezoo too. If you get them from Bluezoos make sure you get their prepared food (Ultimate Fish and Coral Diet). It is great for feeding the anthias and if you ask they will include it in the same package as the fish and not charge for shipping it. They will include a sample in their acclimation package, but you will run out quickly and want more.

[d3rryc]

I ordered my three lyretails from Vivid Aquariums. I ordered all females, and all three arrived in great shape.

[Mr Cob]

Stay away from Square Anthias.... way too risky. I did everything possible to prepare for my Quad...and it still didn't work out. I have successfully kept a Quad for over a year in a 120g but I have lost more trying to get to that point and to reach that point again. It's hit or miss.

But I have never tried any other Anthias....so just speaking for Square....for others that might read this.

[Europhyllia]

Yes I've been reading a lot about them and the Squares are not on the 'recommended' list. ;)
They also get too big for me. I am focusing on the smaller anthias with better captive track record such as:
Resplendent (Goldies :) )
Dispar
and
Bartlett

At this point I am leaning towards Resplendent - considered fairly hardy but stay very small. I like small...

[ErikH]

Call LA, they are very helpful.

[Europhyllia]

I am kinda fond of BlueZoo and just finished talking to the curator there (good idea to make a call, Erik!)
I am back to Bartlett's. :D
He says the Goldies are a little more finicky as far as feeding goes. The Bartletts eat well and are hardier and just perfect all around for my type of set up. He also said they get lots of them so there's a good selection and they come from Hawaii (seemed to indicate that was better than other locations but I didn't ask why)
So now I am all excited about my future Bartletts! Yay!!!

Diver's Den just released a Trio of them as well. :)
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=84611
http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/diversden/approved/0318101-335t.jpg
But I think I want a quad. The curator said the females would school together and the male would kind of come and go so I think 3 females schooling might look more schoolish than just 2...

[Europhyllia]

my little Bartlett's are here. Drip acclimating right now. Kinda nervous but so far all looks good :)

[ErikH]

Pics or it didnt happen... :)

[Jarob]

where did you end up ordering them from? Bluezoo? and yes, PICS!!!

[Europhyllia]

Bluezoo. They already treat them with dewormer and stuff and I talked to the curator there so I felt good knowing more about the ones I was getting and that they were eating their food okay.
Still drip acclimating. Pics later. :)
(I also got a cute pygmy blue spot seahare!)

[Europhyllia]

Probably killed one already!
the first 3 went into the rock work for hiding. The last one went straight for the Vortech.
I had turned it down to feeding mode so it was going slow and I ripped the dryside off as soon as I had the sense to do that. Poor little anthias is still in the Vortech's wetside (put it on the sand so it could hide as long as it needed to) and breathing hard. One eye looks clowdy.
:(
$%*(^^%$$#!!!

[Europhyllia]

three schooling now
the hurt one hiding in the corner :(
clowns and midas blenny trying to chase them off

[Kristy]

Nice!!!

I have to say my trio of bartlett's make me so very happy! They school all the time. Your stressed out little one might have a chance if you can nurse her back to health... fingers crossed for you.

The reason that he said that coming from Hawaii is preferable is that it's a much shorter chain of custody (or whatever they call it) from the reef to the Blue Zoo holding tanks to you. They don't have the stress of sitting on the docks, then being moved around a few more times as freight, etc., etc. that some of our more exotic locations across the globe put fish through.

[Kristy]

PS: On my bartlett's the male schools with the females all the time. They are almost always together. With the lyretails, it's just like the BZ curator described how the male comes and goes while the females school together.

[justahobby]

I'm sorry to hear that Karin! At least you have a first aid kit now

[Europhyllia]

I've doused them in Seachem StressGuard before I even added them!
Little scared one is too fast to remove from display tank and I don't want to stress it even more.
Lights will just stay on actinic all day.
On a positive note the schooling trio already was snacking on frozen food! :)

[justahobby]

Great news on both accounts, the injured one swimming and the trio snacking. I know I always get a huge sense of relief when alledged finicky eaters eat right away.

[Europhyllia]

Count them!!!
:)
http://www.dominopads.com/anthiasquad.jpg

all FOUR eating. :) I LOVE them! So pretty

[txg8gxp]

Wow, awesome pic. They look really cool.

[justahobby]

Whoa!! Grats! You have officially crossed over to the Anthias side. May your tanks always be active and colorful.

[Europhyllia]

I really can't tell now which one got scrambled. I am confident she'll make it.
They are so SMART! Already know what the sea squirt feeding stick is for :D

[Kristy]

Mine are incredibly sociable, always out front and swimming and just swarm me when I come up to the glass. I'm so glad you are having a good anthias experience, Karin!

[BSJF]

I can even see the green acan in the front of the pic that started all of this :wink_smile:

[Europhyllia]

LOL Lorraine!

(I had been reading Kristy's anthias info but always figured too much trouble and heartbreak to be worth it. Then I went to purchase the green acans from Lorraine and saw her gorgeous anthias ... and reconsidered)

[chrisfowler99]

I really can't tell now which one got scrambled. I am confident she'll make it.
They are so SMART! Already know what the sea squirt feeding stick is for :D

Three of them may be smart, but the fourth one swam right into a Vortech. :bigsmile:

[d3rryc]

If you've got them eating already, then you sound like you're in the home stretch. Congrats on the new additions!

[Europhyllia]

Three of them may be smart, but the fourth one swam right into a Vortech. :bigsmile:
Yeah I figured that one would turn out the be the male! :innocent2:

[justahobby]

Yeah I figured that one would turn out the be the male! :innocent2:


:angel:

[chrisfowler99]

Yeah I figured that one would turn out the be the male! :innocent2:
:what_smile:

[corruption]

If theres one thing for certain -- its that no fish will EVER go hungry under Karin's watchful eye! :D Sounds like things are going fine now -- if you don't see outward signs of injury on the fourth Anthias (much less, can't even identify which is which!) I doubt that any longterm damage will come.

-Justin

[Big_Pun]

Yeah I figured that one would turn out the be the male! :innocent2:
he probally had a female swimming next to him being a backseat driver and distracted him

[Europhyllia]

he probally had a female swimming next to him being a backseat driver and distracted him
Really all he had to do was follow the direction of the other three but NOOOOO. Guess he knew a special short cut or was going by his GPS.

Weird thing today:
yesterday all of them were out in front. Today one of them is very bold and in front but the other three tend to stay towards the back and come out mostly for feeding.
Wonder what's up with that?

[Europhyllia]

I got a boy! :)
Three of them still have the yellow noses but one is already getting the fuschia nose and the face is changing. Check it out:
http://www.dominopads.com/newmaleanthias.jpg

Pretty cool right? I'm so glad I read Kristy's article a few times before deciding. The all females approach has definitely worked out well - and saved $10 since the males would have been more expensive.
I am so pleased with how well this has worked out :) I love them! They are so pretty and perfect. I can't beleive I've shied away from them before.

[StevenSeas]

wow what a cool change, gotta love that sexual dimorhism so we know if to call them a boy or girl name lol. Glad all worked out for you

[Europhyllia]

Definitely amazing to watch that change. I am surprised the LFS tend to order males. Seems much easier to just get all females just in case one of the females already started transformation. And I haven't even had these that long and they're already halfway to a male/female harem.