Power

[allan]

I know this has been asked before, but all my queries brought up actual power measurements.

Got to talk to me like I'm eight.

How many plugs have you got plugged into your system?

My room is on a single 20A circuit. I've got three surge protectors plugged into a single two outlet wall plug (15A plug). One of the surge protectors is plugged into another, and it's used solely for the pumps, both return and internal.

Well, I was a bit dismayed to learn that out of the three surge protectors I'm tapped out... and one of the plugs is to a three outlet extension that powers three sets of my T5s.

Here's what I have that I can think of...

Two return pumps
Four Power Heads (all six on one surge)
Extension that holds one set of T5s and a HD fuge light, reverse cycle
One fan (on from 10am to about 8pm)
Five T5 ballasts (three of them are on one timed extension cord)
Three heaters (I'm thinking I can probably trim this down to two)
Three plugs to run my skimmer
Two for Ozone (one for the machine, one for an air pump, one hour from 12am to 1am)

I recently had an electrician out to the house to quote me for an additional power drop into the room. Came in at $700. I can't afford that as I assured my wife that the entire aquarium will never accumulate more than $1,000.... and the $700 will cause that investment to go over. I might have to do the work myself and have an electrician make the final connections. Probably get charged $650 for that though.

[BSJF]

You are over 20A with that list? Did your electrican confirm that? If surge protectors are popping but not the circuit, it might be that some equipment doesn't work well with your surge protectors (too high of a peak). Check your equipment manuals, some specifically state they shouldn't be ran on a surge protector. What else you got using power in the room? Can you move that stuff to a different circuit?

Why do you need 3 heaters? Do you keep your house very cold? I'm not even using 1. There were a few months that I wanted to but the one I bought didn't work and since it is now warmer the need is past.

Can you buy/use different pumps that draw less power?

I placed my tank where it is because there were two circuits available in that room. Can you move your tank to another location in the house? I also run my internal pump on a different circuit than everything else, so if the circuit flips, the internal pump keeps going (and it has a battery backup). I would at least put it on a different powerstrip than other pumps, heaters, lights, what all.

Power drives me crazy! Not an electrician, but wish I was.

[robalv]

Allan I will charge 700 but you have to the work.....lol
not hard at all. I have a 4' flex drill bit you yes Four Foot,
you can use to run the wire through the wall.

[greatwhite@AlamoAquatics]

hey allan i might have someone that can help you , not too sure how busy he is but ill check for ya...

[allan]

I'm not having a problem right now. I also don't think I'm running much more than 15 to 18 amps. But my training and experience tells me that I'm running too much off of the circuit.

Unfortunately that whole room is under one circuit, and running extension power from the rest of the room is completely out of the question. My wife would never go for it. And relocating the tank will never happen... I've just got a handle on this large tank and still remember the pains I went through when I upgraded from 100 to 190 in sheer water volumn. And downgrading isn't an option as I constantly lament the limited area I'm currently working with.

As it sits, the tank is viewable upon entering my home, but it's in the library. Particularly at night when the lights are off and folks walk in it stands out. And the library is the only place aside from the garage that I can safely call my own.

As far as the heaters, I worry more about the water getting cold than I do it getting warm. But you're probably right. As we move into the summer months we'll continue to keep the house at 72, and with the internal heat generators that should keep the water a balmy 78 to 80... in fact, I had a problem keeping the temperature up last year now that I think of it.

[Bill S]

Allan,

Are you tripping the surge protector, or a GFCI outlet? T5 ballasts really don't like surge protectors or GFCIs - and may trip them often as they power up.

To find out your total draw, just use Ohm's law:

Watts divided by voltage (110) = Amps

Here's a calculator: http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp

A lot of devices just use a round number for amps - and that's not correct.

It shouldn't be that hard to run another drop. You might also have a nearby outlet that's on a different run. On my big tank, the bedroom outlet was on one run, and the dining room one on the other side of the same wall was on another. BTW, I still ran another 220 around the end of the house to run the lights and chiller. Not that hard to do, but 220 scares me.

[allan]

Great guys! I appreciate the assist... er, not too crazy about the seven bills Rob. :)

The way I understand it, I would get the conduit in sufficient length with the appropriate elbows, run it from the external drop box (I'm assuming it's a 100amp drop) around the house to the section outside my fish room. Drill through the wall while desperately hoping that I don't drill through something needed. Route the conduit into the wall, and connect it to a four way plug system affixed to a stud... or would I route power to the room to a 40amp drop box, and route that power to a four way plug below? That way I can set it up on a 30am circuit and place the 20amp outlets in the closet.

[allan]

Hey Bill,

No, I'm not tripping anything. So far I've only lost power to that room once (water in the wall due to an overflowing skimmer).

I thought about getting the data plate power readings to determine total max draw, but as you stated it wouldn't be very accurate. I've also contemplated an amp meter reading at the outlet junction to see what the actual current is.

AC doesn't scare me so much as DC does. I got tagged with a 160 VDC when troubleshooting a piece of Laboratory equipment. Locked me up tight and I spit my gum out. Felt like beatles chewing my finger tips.

[Europhyllia]

Does the library share a wall with another room?
I have two outlets by the tank that are on the dining room circuit.
But I also have one outlet right behind the tank that actually goes to the garage circuit.
I only learned that because it tripped and I had to reset the GFCI in the garage.
I am no super crazy about the conduit around the house thing -would probably prefer to borrow from another room and go through the interior wall.
We did run conduit from the box to the barn (about 400 ft underground) but that's a different story...

[Kristy]

Allan,
I'm a bit concerned about your math here... are you sure that the 700 would push you over your 1000 cap? Because I remember we were talking in front of Gloria recently and you said how you are still way under 500 total investment on that tank, so I wonder if you might have more room to spare?

Also, you have to remember that this is not technically money spent on the tank... it's a home improvement, so I don't see how the 700 would count anyhow. You didn't count the money spent tiling the library did you? If you're going to play this game, you have to think more like a woman or you will surely lose! ;)

PS: FYI - we have our entire 210g running off a single outlet in our kitchen. We had an electrician out to look at it and he charged us a little to upgrade it to GFI just for our peace of mind and extra "insurance" but said he thought we were okay (incredibly!). Send me a pm if you want his name and number because he was great and VERY INEXPENSIVE.

[jroescher]

Before you commit to spending a lot of money, invest in one of these:
Kill-A-Watt meter (http://www.google.com/products?client=opera&rls=en&q=kill-a-watt&sourceid=opera&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=6JOfS6qnDYKVtgfnzeXqDQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQrQQwAg).

You may not be in as bad a shape as you think.

[Bill S]

Before you commit to spending a lot of money, invest in one of these:
Kill-A-Watt meter (http://www.google.com/products?client=opera&rls=en&q=kill-a-watt&sourceid=opera&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=6JOfS6qnDYKVtgfnzeXqDQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQrQQwAg).

You may not be in as bad a shape as you think.

HD has them online for $25. Store might match that.

[allan]

Before you commit to spending a lot of money, invest in one of these:
Kill-A-Watt meter (http://www.google.com/products?client=opera&rls=en&q=kill-a-watt&sourceid=opera&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=6JOfS6qnDYKVtgfnzeXqDQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQrQQwAg).

You may not be in as bad a shape as you think.


This is what I need just to verify my current. Kristy, how many plugs are you plugging in for that system?

I also wonder if I've plugged in a superflous amount of gadgets.

Think like a woman... indeed!!! How the heck am I to do that??? The best I can do is bring one in to do the thinking for me, and I imagine that would drive my investment waaaaay past the allotted amount.

Karin, I do share a wall with a latrine and a wall for my living room. I could re-route the power from the living room to give me access to power in the closet where I plan on running my pump for the top off.

As it is I have 23 plugs into a single fifteen amp outlet... and I want to plug in more!

I think I'll pick up the kilowatt meter mentioned above. I can always use that later. For other things.

[Kristy]

Kristy, how many plugs are you plugging in for that system?

About a million? Have to count them up later... if I don't get back to you on this, ask Mike to cout them while I'm in Hawaii. Or stop by our house, drink a beer with him while he is a lonely bachelor :bigsmile: and count them yourself.

[allan]

About a million? Have to count them up later... if I don't get back to you on this, ask Mike to cout them while I'm in Hawaii. Or stop by our house, drink a beer with him while he is a lonely bachelor :bigsmile: and count them yourself.


I can do this. I will grab a few of the guys, call up a service, head out to the casa and we can bachelor it up.

[Kristy]

I can do this. I will grab a few of the guys, call up a service, head out to the casa and we can bachelor it up.

Ummm, what kind of service exactly? :confused: Some sort of plug-counting and wattage-calculating service I presume?

This seemed like such a good idea until you said that...!

[txav8r]

I can do this. I will grab a few of the guys, call up a service, head out to the casa and we can bachelor it up.


Count me in!!

[ErikH]

Lol!!!

I have my whole tank with my tv theatre system, and my reptile cage all on the same circuit.

Too bad were not 240, just pop a dang 30a in there!

Go online and figure out the draw from each piece of equipment and replace the inefficient items with better ones. Just the difference in draw from powerhead to powerhead can be quite dramatic.

[txmike]

Is there a 2nd story over this part of your house?Is this a interior wall or exterior wall?There could be lots of not to costly ways to fix this .
mike

[allan]

Jack and I will be over... maybe to help install the new FOWLR?

Two story house, main power drop box is on the east side, my library is on the south side. Built on the side of a hill so the foundation is pretty... complete? Can't go under.

I have my main house breaker box upstairs... but running another line down from there... I do have about six more slots. I've replaced the circuit breaker for that room, and thought about installing a 30amp. But if I'm pulling that much juice...

[Mike]

Hey Allan,

One of the ways we cut back on plugs was to switch to the vortechs. We went from 4 pumps to 2. We also don't run the heater most of the time and wehen we switched our lights, we made back like 3 more plugs.

Count me in for beer at my house, or bachelor night out - at the fish stores obviously- would be cool. Crazy at work, but we can make something happen... :)

[alton]

Count the watts on your equipment, do not exceed 1900 watts and do not install a larger breaker. 15a for #14 gauge, 20a for #12 and 30a for #10. If you live in the city of SA the minimum gauge is #12, but if you live outside the city you may have #14? Per 2008 code all homes shall be equiped with either Arc Fault or Ground Fault Breakers. There only a very few exceptions.

[allan]

Alton,

The only problem I have with counting the equipment stated watts is the high end plus padding that I believe the MFR puts on for liability. Thank you for the guage breakout, I've been thinking of that but never got up the energy to type in the google search.

I'll check the gauge in my home... but going by memory (I had to replace the 20 circuit breaker) it looks like 12 gauge wire... of course I've not had my eye's calibrated any time in the recent future. BLUF is that I do live a stone's throw outside SA city limits. Aside from the numerous lower end fixtures in the house I would imagine that the wiring is to SA code... of course when replacing my lights with ceiling fans I found several instances where grounding wires weren't even stripped for connection.

I recently (two days ago) had to replace my kitchen ballast (runs four T8 bulbs (how did I ever learn so much about florescent lights???)), and realized after I put in the new one that the old one had been humming ever since I bought the house (Pulte, Inventory).

I guess things like this happen. One home in the area was built without a kitchen sink... they fixed it but I'm thinking "Come on!", and another was built without any windows in the kitchen.

So, should I bring in another power drop? I'm assuming that since my stuff can all run at the same time to include the closet light and the fan/light combo, that I'm not exceeding 2kW, else I'd have a problem with the breaker. It doesn't even feel warm.

[allan]

Mike,

I wonder if Gabe is monitoring this thread and getting any ideas of a drinking window of opportunity to sell more coral?

Another midnight sale perhaps?

[Salty]

Breakers will usually only allow 80-85% of their rated load to be passed continuously if I remember right. Then you have to account for voltage loss through the actual wiring. Your transient load can be higher, but I don't remember how long the trip time is for inductive loads on standard breakers, somewhere in the miliseconds I think. Then you get into duty cycles and yada yada yada, (insert $700 electrician here). Count on your standard 15 amp to realistically pass around ~1200 watts before it pops. Seriously though, that's a big ... load for a tank.

[allan]

Breakers will usually only allow 80-85% of their rated load to be passed continuously if I remember right. Then you have to account for voltage loss through the actual wiring. Your transient load can be higher, but I don't remember how long the trip time is for inductive loads on standard breakers, somewhere in the miliseconds I think. Then you get into duty cycles and yada yada yada, (insert $700 electrician here). Count on your standard 15 amp to realistically pass around ~1200 watts before it pops. Seriously though, that's a big ... load for a tank.


I think you're on target. As far as voltage drop, I wouldn't imagine that would be significant, even during the summer's heat with the actual wires running completely inside the buildings internal walls. My breaker is upstairs and the library is almost directly beneath it. I meant to stop by and get a kill a watt meter yesterday but forgot.

[Salty]

^^ Family has been in the rental business for 30 years, just what I've picked up from electricians along the way, some more ummm "professional" than others.

[allan]

Okay, this is what I finally did.

I got tired of worrying about the load in that room so I picked up some 12-2 (about 250 feet (waaay overkill on length)), about 80' of conduit pipe and corners, and two 20A circuit breakers, along with two 15A plugs and associated mounting hardware. Ran me just north of a single bill.

I then proceeded to dig a trench (shhh, about 4" to 8" in places) to run my line. I had originally planned on bringing in another 20A of power to the room, but when I realized that I had a freaky amount of wiring I picked up the other 20A circuit breaker.

I installed the wire from the external 200A drop box, ran it clear around the house and through the wall. Installed everything inside to code (which implies that the exterior was done somewhat less than code, but it was all to code).

Then the first real test. I tied in the appropriate lines for single phase power to the room (I almost purchased the dual pole circuit, whew). The second real test was flipping the switch. The third test was unplugging the extension cords running to the room and reconnecting it to the newly installed plugs. I put in a four place plate that houses two 2xplug sets. A single 20A circuit running to both.

Where I messed up. Should have went ahead and ponied up for the 20A plugs. I didn't need 20A plugs, but since everything else is wired for 20A to include the circuit breakers I've actually created a weak link in the system at the plug in point. I did get the best rated 15A socket sets that they had... but still.

Now I've got a total of 40A available to the room above and beyond the stock 15 that the room was wired for.

I'm out about one note, about four hours, and I'd say about half a cup of A- (I sliced into my finger rather deeply and it bled for about 15 minutes before God's bandaid was able to take affect).

Relax guys, I didn't get any of the blood into the tank (didn't want the massive amounts of iron in me to mess up my water parameters). :)