180g

[RayAllen]

Well some of you have seen a 180g tank sitting in my front room, my original idea was to make this a african cichlid tank, but ive changed my mind.

I know we are all Reef guys but you all know there are many fish out there that you want, but just cant keep in a reef.

Im going to set this up as a FOWLR setup to keep all those awesome fish you cant keep in a typical reef. Picasso trigger, large wrasses, Angels etc...

Im doing this on a budget and currently I have

-180g RR tank 6x2x2 (has a freshwater foam background that will need to be changed)
-Stand and canopy (both need a facelift)
-Sump (needs a little TLC)
-20" tall Ace built reactor
-2 Quiet one pumps( that I actually want to trade or sale for a Mag 12)
-lighting leaves more 2 be desired (dual 48" NO shoplight)

So to sum it all up I need a couple of 1" Bulkheads and plumbing, want a mag 12 for a return. Im going to reskin the stand and add reinforcement, waterproof the inside with Skilz. Pruce up the canopy and ad some more lighting. Need a bucket of salt to start and a lot of Dry base rock, that I will seed with a few lbs of live. Need a lot of sand. Change the background using black great stuff foam.

I think thats all :)

Im also restoring Old VW so this may take a little while but be on the look out for progress.

Currently it looks like this
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/220g.jpg

[fjr_wertheimber]

Very cool, Ray. Nice to see you decided to go salty, rather than (~shudder~) freshwater.

[ErikH]

Tagging along... Been lookin around at old bugs myself :)

[RayAllen]

Thanks guys

Erik going to send you a pm.

[txav8r]

The V-dub is sweet! I'm sure this tank will be too!

[RayAllen]

Ok folks im thinking about filtration.

Besides the 170lbs of Live rock in the display

What i have now is a sump that I will be running a carbon reactor on and a skimmer. Most likely a Octopus Needel wheel skimmer rated for 180g+.

Now what im thinking instead of a fuge or maybe both is running a seperate 20-30g with live rock and a xenia forest that is plumbed to run into the sump. I know Ping one of our most knowledgeable members IMO is running a xenia sump so maybe he will chime in on this. I would light it with a clamp lamp lit by a 68watt PC bulb
http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fans-Light-Bulbs-Compact-Tube-Fluorescents/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5Zar0o/R-100676712/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I think this would work well in a FOWLR system since xenia tend to like less than pristine reef water. They would be able to catch any particles floating buy before into the mechanical filtration.

Something like this pic. I drew it with paint so its not the greatest but you get the idea

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/180gfil-1.jpg

Need some thoughts on this.

[RayAllen]

moved the above filtration post to the equipment forum to get more eyes on it

[alton]

Why not put xenia and gsp in the main tank? I have never seen those two coral eatin by anything

[RayAllen]

The main display isnt going to be lit by lighting to substain coral. I dont want the tank to have coral. This is primarily a filtration sorce.

[kkiel02]

You would be suprised what xenia will grow in. I had some in my garage without light unless the garage is open or we turn on the light bulb and it survived even through some freezes. I was trying to kill it but it just wouldnt go away.

[Europhyllia]

That's going to be nice! Maybe sweet fish like puffers and cowfish too?

[RayAllen]

There will definately be a puffer or two, not sure about cowfish though

[hobogato]

sounds like a fun tank - i picture lots of personable fish. looking forward to see where you go with it

[RayAllen]

Im scaping the xenia idea, Going to be a large fuge with a lot of Macro. My thought process on this is that I know it works plus it will be a great copepod source for live fish food. Not to mention any of the fish that likes to eat macro algae.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/180gfil-2.jpg

[RayAllen]

Alrighty I was thinking of selling and going another route. I decided to keep it and work with it. Just spent the last 2 hours removing the foam/eggcrate back ground and scraping silicone off. It was so much fun! Im happy with the outcome. The acrylic overflows will get a new black acrylic coveriing because I scratched them up pretty good while scraping off the silicone. All in all its coming along. Next project sanding and repainting the stand and canopy.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/180001.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/180003.jpg

[RayAllen]

AS you can see the back pain of glass looks great!

[Europhyllia]

Glad you decided to keep it after all. Lots of potential there with a 180! :)

[txg8gxp]

Now thats a big tank..Could you just polish out the scratches instead of laminating a new piece on?

[RayAllen]

Now thats a big tank..Could you just polish out the scratches instead of laminating a new piece on?

I could do that, but.

I dont have a polisher to do so and there are some holes drilled in both of them that need to be covered. Really its the easiest and quickest fix.

[txg8gxp]

True..and atleast it only need to be thin acrylic so cost will not be too big of a deal.

[RayAllen]

Placed a order through allied plastics today. 4 sheets of black 1/16" thick cut to size $16.00. Not bad.

[txg8gxp]

Not bad at all. You plan on welding the panels in or silicone them?

[RayAllen]

Ok guys the tank is going to be behind a custom built bar that is 48" tall. My stand is 32" tall now. Im think of building a plat-form out of cinder blocks framed by wood so you dont see them. The stand will sit on the plat form. This way the tank is obviously sitting higher to view. Anyone see any problems with this? I know mobile homes sit on cinder blocks so I dont think there would be a issue.

[hobogato]

i dont see why it wouldnt work, leveling may be your only issue. you could build a platform out of 2x4s and plywood - that way it could be shimmed if needed.

[txg8gxp]

If you go with blocks just make sure to stand the the right way. They are very stong one way, but very weak if wieght is put on the wrong side.

[RayAllen]

i dont see why it wouldnt work, leveling may be your only issue. you could build a platform out of 2x4s and plywood - that way it could be shimmed if needed.

Ace I was also thinking this. Possible using 2x6s though

[RayAllen]

Update

I began refinishing and structually bulking up the stand yesterday. Coming along nicely. Sanded off the black spray paint and years of salt creep, bugs, debri etc... The wood all in all is actually in better shape than expected. Going to be able to give it a dark stain and sealer. Gave it a new 4x4 frame on the inside so its solid as a rock. Decided not to have doors, but instead go with panels that will be attached with magnets to give it a clean recessed look. Will post pics once complete. Should have taken a before picture, but oh well..

Will move onto the canopy afterward. Not nearly as much work to do there.

As far as the tank itself. I recovered the overflows with new black acrylic and it turned it pretty good. This tank is somewhere around 10yrs old and I know it holds water without leaks but the caulking has shrunk a lot over the years so I may just run a thick bead over the exsisting to put the mind at ease.

[hobogato]

new silicone does not stick to silicone that is already cured, so it would not do you any good to cover the existing seams with new sealant. if you are worried about them, the only way to fix them correctly is to cut out the old sealant, make sure all of it is out of the seam and then apply new sealant.

[RayAllen]

I know it holds water fine, Really is there a expiration date on aquarium silicone? I just know the age so it has me thinking. Not a real concern more of a " I wonder" Cutting out all the silicone to apply new isnt going to happen, unless I could do it to the corners only. Ive been around long enough to know id have to remove it from the entire tank. Id have to take out the overflows to do it right which would be a hassel.

With all that said, I will leave it as is.

[BIGBIRD123]

Ok guys the tank is going to be behind a custom built bar that is 48" tall. My stand is 32" tall now. Im think of building a plat-form out of cinder blocks framed by wood so you dont see them. The stand will sit on the plat form. This way the tank is obviously sitting higher to view. Anyone see any problems with this? I know mobile homes sit on cinder blocks so I dont think there would be a issue.

Ray, I would recommend using SOLID 4"X8"X16" BLOCK as the standard 8" blocks are not designed to be used to sustain the type of hydrostatic pressure (or lbs per sq in.) the tank will put on them without the use of concrete in them. JMPO

[RayAllen]

Thanks Steve

Ive actually decided to put it directly on the floor now. Going to be to the side of the bar now versus my previous idea of behind it. Will be on the main concrete floor. Now the challenge is making sure its level.

[neogenix]

Tagging along to see what it turns out to be ;)

[BIGBIRD123]

Thanks Steve

Ive actually decided to put it directly on the floor now. Going to be to the side of the bar now versus my previous idea of behind it. Will be on the main concrete floor. Now the challenge is making sure its level.

let me know if you need help...have level will travel...lol

[RayAllen]

Here is the almost finished project. Just doesnt have the door panels on.

Before

79007899

After

789879027901

[Europhyllia]

nice! If you decide to buy some of that foam stuff at Lowes to eliminate pressure spots I'll buy some off of you (I think it only come in the big packs)

[RayAllen]

For the most part finished remodeling the tank/Bar room. New floors, paint and base board are in.

Tanks going up tonight. Built my Durso Standpipes last night. Going to plumb the entire thing tonight and get the sand and rock in place. Fingers crossed that its leak free first go round.

[Europhyllia]

Cool. Good Luck!

[RayAllen]

I finally finished with my remodling of the front room, acid stain floor, new paint and 4" base boards. Came out pretty good and the new bar is in :). Set the tank up last night, well at least I filled it last night. Had 3 diffrent leaks to sort out. Nothing major but very annoying, got them sorted out this morning. It sounded like a loud toilet flushing though when I started up the pump this morning, had to dial down the pump with 2 ball valves on each return line to get the water stop gushing into the sump. Seems to have done the trick but Id like to figure out a way to make it quiter without having to dial them down so much. The dursos are pretty quite now with the flow dialed down but before then were a little burpy. Went with this rock work to make sure my new moray eel will be happy. Thought it was best to have a larger structure with lots of caves. Well without anymore delay here are some pics. Sorry about the clouldiness it hasnt even been 24hrs yet.

79907991799279937994
http://www.maast.org/images/misc/pencil.png
http://www.maast.org/images/misc/pencil.png

[RayAllen]

As you can see there obviously isnt a canopy on top. Im still working on refinishing it, no lights yet either.

[Europhyllia]

Very exciting! I really like your floors by the way ;)

[Big_Pun]

the hole on the top of stand pipes may be too small and that's why the burbing, how big are the holes and where is the water level sitting at in relation to the 90' elbow does it go over the top?

[RayAllen]

The hole is smaller than a airline hose and the water almost covers the elbows completely. I will get a pic of inside the overflows.

[RayAllen]

tanks doing good now, after several changes to the plumbing. Still have the pump dialed down but im happy with the flow and its a lot quiter. Going to add three hydor koralias for flow in the tank. The sump/fuge has a nice steady current going through it, works for me!

A couple of pics. You can see the spa flex tubing I now have versus the hard pvc with the 90 elbows that were there before. I will never make that mistake again. Also a shot of the designated fuge area.

81638164

[Mr Cob]

Looks great Ray. Bet you are glad to be back in the "big boy" salt club.

Can't wait to see what you do with it. It looks great so far.

[RayAllen]

Thanks Rob, Picked up Jacks Yellow Head Moray yesterday. Its enjoying its new home.

[Europhyllia]

3 weeks and no pictures of the new critters? really?

[txav8r]

3 weeks and no pictures of the new critters? really?

No joke! You are slacking Ray!!

[RayAllen]

Sorry folks!

UPDATE- 6/23/2010

I need to refinish the canopy. Now that I have the VHO all wired and ready to go I will also install that this week.

Also the eel is doing excellent (He is a pig) Super active. Ive had eels before and have never had one so willing to swim out in the open. The Cream angel is doing good, still eating although it has cloudy puffy eyes. Picked up some meds to mix with its food yesterday at Gabes. Hopefully this will clear it all up and he can be a happy fish.

Pics will be here within a few days.

[RayAllen]

6/25

Thanks to Gabes Advice/meds the angles eyes have gotten a lot better within only a couple of days.

I was to cheap to buy stand offs for my VHO endcaps, plus didnt want to wait for them to get here. DIY baby! I went to Lowes yesterday and found some plastic peices made for cabinets. Drilled a few holes and they turned out great.

Going to sand/stain canopy tonight so I can get this baby done.

Pics by Sunday.

[RayAllen]

Ok busted some but after work today. canopy and vhos are done. Now some new pics!

This VHO setup is bright! 3 60" bubls. One Aqua Sun, 1 Actinic White, 1 Actinic Blue

[RayAllen]

85568555855885548557
http://www.maast.org/images/misc/pencil.png

[RayAllen]

85608563856285618564
http://www.maast.org/images/misc/pencil.png

[RayAllen]

I havnt gotten any good pics of the angel and eel yet. I will keep trying.

[Mr Cob]

Looks fabulous Ray! Right on! Welcome back...I'm sure you missed having a big boy tank! Looks like you are back in business and it looks great. The VHO bulbs are perfect for this setup too.

[RayAllen]

Thanks Rob! Im really happy with the way its turned out.

I have 420watts of VHOs in the canopy. I may throw some softies in there for the heck of it ;).

[Mr Cob]

I'd do the same. I have always wanted a FOWLR big boy tank : ) and I would so prune from my reef tank and drop in frags here and there to see if they take off. Your 29g has lots of softies that are hardy. I'd throw in some nice bright GSP as well.....not often you get a tank that you can just toss random corals in and not worry about them turning into weeds.

[Europhyllia]

great rockscape!

[RayAllen]

Rob thats what I was thinking. I can throw what ever soft coral in their if it does well, cool. If not, oh well. Man Nano produces baby shrooms, and kenya trees like crazy.

Thanks Karin

Im really happy with the rock work. I chose to do it this way primarily for the eel. The one large structure has many caves with heavy rocks he can snake his way in and out.

[roscozman]

Lookin' good Ray

[txav8r]

Looks great Ray! Glad to see it coming together.

[RayAllen]

Thanks guys, now onto stocking this baby. Im taking it slow. The cream angel and Yellow head eel are doing great. Both eat like pigs.

[Mr Cob]

Daily pics would be nice. :)

[txav8r]

I'd even settle for bi-weekly pics....

[RayAllen]

Daily pics would be nice. :)

Daily pics, lol. You are funny Rob!

[Europhyllia]

We'll settle for twice a week. It's not like we are unreasonable or anything... ;)

[RayAllen]

Update.

WOW, I took a light to the tank last night. There are a ton of copepods in the rockwork and fuge. Some are huge! Didnt realize they could get so big, im talking 1/2". With nothing in the tank to eat them they are breeding like there is no tommorow. As soon as I would hit a rock with the light they would all jolt away. Reminded me of creepy movies when they turn on the light and cockraoches are everywhere.

Tanks off to a great start if my pod population is thriving.

[Europhyllia]

are you sure they're not amphipods?

[RayAllen]

I stand Corrected. You are right Karin. Huge amphipods everywhere.

[RayAllen]

Took some pics tonight. The tank is done going through its ugly brown diatom stage and the cyano is clearing up. Literally a night and day difference in only a couple of days! Its really clear and clean now. Im stoked! Filtration and fuge are really doing well.

Im already seeing signs of coraline algae, woo hoo!

So far I have a bunch of simple softies in their. Green Star polyps, brown stars, xenia, shrooms, kenya, yellow palys, brown palys.

Got some pics of the king of the tank tonight. My 2+ft fat Yellow Head Moray. Ive been feeding him nice sized fresh shrimp from HEB and he loves it.

900490039005

[RayAllen]

Some of my eel. Hes hard to take a picture of and feed at the same time!

90069010900890079009

[Europhyllia]

Wow that is an awesome fish!

[hobogato]

looking great ray - i love that eel!

[RayAllen]

Thanks!

[txav8r]

Yep. Nice eel! LOL!

Don't put any clownfish in there!

[RayAllen]

LOL, no clowns!

He attacked rather tasted a 4" blue throat trigger I put in there. Didnt eat him because it was to big. The trigger stressed out and died not to long after. The eel is super active at night I think thats when he did it. I could clearly see the bite marks one morning on both sides of the triggers body.

[txav8r]

He doesn't play well with others... :(

[RayAllen]

LOL, no he does not.

I know when I was at your house checking him out that the grouper would keep him in its place though. Just have to get tuffer fish to do the same.

I will be adding a 5-6" Blueline grouper soon. Im sure he will be just fine.

[alton]

That is a cool but wicked looking eel.

[RayAllen]

That is a cool but wicked looking eel.

Thanks! Im glad I decided to take him off Jacks hands. He has turned out to be quite entertaining. Super active for a eel. Friends and family like to watch him eat.

[RayAllen]

Added a Octopus Skimmer Sunday. So far so good, has pulled out some nice thick skim after only a few days.

Also added a Niger Trigger on Monday and hes doing great. It is a little fiesty so him in the eel are doing well together.

[Mr Cob]

Rockin Ray! I totally missed the pic update a couple pages ago...I was waiting to see some shots and then I missed them. lol

Looks great. Rockwork is nice too. Going to be a great tank.

[RayAllen]

Man im super bummed this morning. As you know I have the eel so I have to buy larger fish. I bought a solid 4-5" Long by 2-3" with spines open scribbled rabbit fish from gabes yesterday. Gabe could tell you the rabbit fish was a good size.

I get up this morning and of corse I want to check on my new fish. I cant find it, I look everywhere! I notice the eel is not in his normal spot and find him behind the rock work on the far right. A section of his body is flatened out to the exact proportions of the new rabbit fish I just bought!

Ive always be under the impression that a moray will only eat what can fit in their mouths. Well last night my eel managed to eat a big fish, much larger than its head and girth of its body.

At this point its either spend $75-100 per fish just to get fish large enough to be safe or the eel has to go. So far ive lost a cream angel- lost with no trace although now I know what happened, blue throat trigger which i know was attacked and now the rabbit fish. Not a one of those fish were smaller than 3"x2".

I have no idea how the niger which is smaller than the rabbit fish has managed to survive this long. Without being attacked or eaten.

I could add huge volitan lions but I really do not want to do that for my safety.

Something I really need to think about it. Driving me a Nikki (my wife crazy) because Im throwing away money on eel food.

Might have to give gabe a call with a run down on cost on LARGE fish!

Anyways thats my dramatic morning update. Im going to Austin now.....

[Europhyllia]

that eel has worked its way up from clowns huh. Sorry about that.

[jc]

Will the eel be as aggressive if he is not hungry? Maybe you can try to keep him full.

[RayAllen]

At my inlaws right now in Leander so I have to keep this short.

I feed him a lot. I bought a lb of RAW shrimp from HEB and feed him 2 shrimp everyother day.

He was feed yesterday and ate my rabbitfish last night. Never ending stomach, I guess. From my understanding most people only feed their eel maybe twice a week so he has the life getting to lrg shrimp every other day.

I could have a eel tank only which would be pretty boring.

[Europhyllia]

are eels edible?

[allan]

Sure hope so, we pulled up a three foot eel on that off shore disingenuous trip and my buddy took it home so his wife could cook it.

[RayAllen]

Im getting the yellow head out tommorow. At least im going to try lol. 180g tank, 140lbs of rock, one onry lrg eel = lots of fun haha. I just got back from Austin and he still had a huge lump on his body where the fish is. Hopefully he can digest it and it has not gotten stuck in his body. Rabbit have nice poison barbs that I imagine can become stuck.

Picked up Eriks very small snowflake eel tonight. Its heads only the size of my pinkie so no worries there. Living in my sump untill I can get the big guy out because the snowflake would just be a snack.

[Richard]

I was looking into setting up an eel tank with a mix of morays awhile back. I don't remember all the species I had decided on but I do remember that the yellow head was definitely off the list because of how aggressive they are. I saw a post of some guy who's big yellow head had bitten his grouper in half and another where one had eaten the guy's volitan. Very pretty eel but a bad bad fish. You can tell by the mouths what a moray does for a living. The snowflake is built for crunching mollusks and of course your yellowheads mouth is all about eating other fish.

[txav8r]

At least I'm not the only one that fed him expensive fish....


I told you he was mean!!! He lived in my tank with a large volatin, a dog face puffer, Koran angel and 2 grouper (one of them I gave to you). They were all large fish and he still looked at all of them like a snack. He never ate any of them but you could tell that the thought had crossed his mind.

Donate him to the S.A. Zoo. They have an eel tank. I've heard its kind of a pain to donate things to them though. Bstreep tried to donate his chiller to them and they turned him down.:hypnotyized:

[RayAllen]

LOL, I knew he was mean, but this threw me for a loop. Luckily Gabe has great prices on his fish because im not to far into the negative.

He still has the fish in his stomach, hope its not stuck!

[RayAllen]

Im thinking I may just take the BC29 down and move everything over into the 180g. Ive been slowly moving different coral over so ive already began without thinking about it.

I need to take up the carpet in the family room anyways....

[txav8r]

180 Reef tank in the works?

[RayAllen]

Looks that way, lol.

I was just sorta throwing in softy offspring from the bc29, but now with the yellow head monster leaving I might as well go all the way reef.

All thats in there now is a small niger which may not be super invert friendly (actually has not even touch the snails) and doesnt touch any of the corals. Go ahead and start slowly acclimating everything over and I will be good to go.