Another sump?

[txg8gxp]

Didn't want to jack someone thread so here we go. I want to finish my 30g sump, nothing to special. Does anyone see any problems with this?

[txav8r]

Looks like a pretty simple design.
The bubble trap doesn't look right. All 3 shouldn't go all the way down to the bottom.

[FireWater]

Looks like a pretty simple design.
The bubble trap doesn't look right. All 3 shouldn't go all the way down to the bottom.

^^I noticed that as well. Any plans for the fuge or is it incorporated in this design?

[txg8gxp]

Oyea, good correction. I new that just put the pic together to fast.

[txg8gxp]

Fixed, and added the poly tray.

[txg8gxp]

The chamber on the right will be a large refugium, and the left chamber will be small with external pumps.

[kkiel02]

I would switch the skimmer and the fuge that way you dont skim out your beneficial stuff(yes "stuff" is a scientific term) from your fuge.

[fs40reef]

The higher you make your bubble trap baffles the more water in your sump. I know it's a stupid observation but it means that you will have to top off less from evaporation. I just made a sump about the same size and went from topping off daily to every other day or so.
Will

[txg8gxp]

More to scale.

[corruption]

Also remember that the return area (where the pumps actually draw from) will determine your available evaporation capability -- if its too small, you risk running your pump dry...

-Justin

[corruption]

Also -- if you're baffling the return/skimmer area lower for the sake of your skimmer, I would just look into building a stand to keep it at the proper depth... If your skimmers anywhere but your return area, the water level will be constant -- so you won't have to tinker with the tuning regularly.

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

Great point. I want to get as big of a refugium as possible, so maybe go with remora ev skimmer and mount it external. That would allow for a bigger sump return chamber.



Also remember that the return area (where the pumps actually draw from) will determine your available evaporation capability -- if its too small, you risk running your pump dry...

-Justin

[FireWater]

I can't draw on a program, but all the above are good ideas. I like the big fuge - tank drains straight down into it then goes to the skimmer correct? I also like the elevated fuges where the drain is split so that some of the water goes to the fuge and the rest goes to the sump/skimmer.

[txg8gxp]

The only reason I was thinking lower chambers is only for power shut off overflow.


Also -- if you're baffling the return/skimmer area lower for the sake of your skimmer, I would just look into building a stand to keep it at the proper depth... If your skimmers anywhere but your return area, the water level will be constant -- so you won't have to tinker with the tuning regularly.

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

Yes, May need to split the drain between ref./skimmer chamber for lower flow. Just not sure.


I can't draw on a program, but all the above are good ideas. I like the big fuge - tank drains straight down into it then goes to the skimmer correct? I also like the elevated fuges where the drain is split so that some of the water goes to the fuge and the rest goes to the sump/skimmer.

[corruption]

Elevated fuge is another great idea you could utilize here, Stephen -- make the sump area more or less a single volume, no walls (or a large central divide to provide a bubble trap), and elevate the fuge above that water level (All of Gabe's sumps at the store are built this way, if you need an example to visualize)... depending on the height of your stand, may allow you to get a much larger volume than otherwise..

-Justin

[corruption]

Flow will also be entirely determined by your return pump -- if you're not pushing too many gph, flow won't likely be a problem.

As far as overflow capacity -- this is absolutely part of the balancing act. The way that Ace laid out my sump was from left to right: Rubble tower and skimmer area, bubble trap, which flows to fuge/return area. He built the wall between the fuge and return pumps at about 5 inches tall -- I screened off a separation with eggcrate. Now, the entire fuge + the return area is my evaporation area, plus I have all of the capacity above for overflow (about 26 inches long, 14 inches wide, about 6 inches of empty space above the water line -- approx. 9 gal overflow capacity :))

Edit: that sounds very confusing -- I'll see if I can't make a visual thats a bit more easy to follow :)

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

I'm alittle limited on space. The only way I could do this would be have another pump lift water from the sump to the refugium(the refugium would be complete stand alone). Then all the water would go throught the skimmer first, is that a good or bad thing. I would think you would want the water to go through a refugium then skimmer.


Elevated fuge is another great idea you could utilize here, Stephen -- make the sump area more or less a single volume, no walls (or a large central divide to provide a bubble trap), and elevate the fuge above that water level (All of Gabe's sumps at the store are built this way, if you need an example to visualize)... depending on the height of your stand, may allow you to get a much larger volume than otherwise..

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

So the 5" wall between the refugium and return pump is just to hold back sand/rubble. Correct.



Flow will also be entirely determined by your return pump -- if you're not pushing too many gph, flow won't likely be a problem.

As far as overflow capacity -- this is absolutely part of the balancing act. The way that Ace laid out my sump was from left to right: Rubble tower and skimmer area, bubble trap, which flows to fuge/return area. He built the wall between the fuge and return pumps at about 5 inches tall -- I screened off a separation with eggcrate. Now, the entire fuge + the return area is my evaporation area, plus I have all of the capacity above for overflow (about 26 inches long, 14 inches wide, about 6 inches of empty space above the water line -- approx. 9 gal overflow capacity :))

Edit: that sounds very confusing -- I'll see if I can't make a visual thats a bit more easy to follow :)

-Justin

[corruption]

Correct -- gives the eggcrate something to grab onto/against as well (I used some cyanoacrylate gel)

I'm gonna try my hand at a quick google sketchup markup of my sump..

(my sump is much longer than my stand doors -- its pretty much impossible to get a good single shot of the sump, and I didn't think of taking one after I got it from Ace :))

-Justin

[corruption]

Here we go -- I'm too impatient for Google Sketchup -- good ol' The Gimp to the rescue! :D

http://binarybuccaneers.org/tank/sump.jpg

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

What keeps macro from getting over to the pump chamber?

[corruption]

Egg crate -- I cut a hunk of it just big enough to wedge up against the lower baffle and glued it with cyanoacrylate gel... The sand does a great deal for keeping it in place as well.

-Justin

[justahobby]

I give, what's the cologne bottle for? :what_smile:

[corruption]

Hey, even fish need to smell great! :D

I believe thats an AquaC EV-180 that he's representing there... Not certain tho :)

-Justin

[justahobby]

Thought so, should someone tell Nautica their design has been stolen? http://www.perfumezilla.com/images_product/nautica-voyage-cologne-nautica-eau-toilette-spray-men586982.jpg

[justahobby]

Sorry guys, ya'll were really getting into it, hashing out plans, and I came along messing with your vibe :D

[txg8gxp]

hahahaha man thats just too funny...

[txg8gxp]

Ok, well I think this is better. It fixed my evaporation problem, and going with external skimmer I can still have a large refugium.
Yellow= filter sock Red=Mag7 skimmer pump Light Green= eggcrate Dark Green= Macro Tan= Live sand Pink=bulkhead for external return pump

[FireWater]

Excuse the horrible pics. This is my set up and I believe it is similar to what Corruption's looks like and what you have planned.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/perry4083/DSC01806.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/perry4083/DSC01811.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/perry4083/DSC01808.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/perry4083/DSC01807.jpg

I didn't have time to do any house cleaning prior to the pics either. If you can make out everything there it should help you as far as heighths for the baffles and set up. It looks as though your last post is pretty simple and straight forward for a good design.

[txg8gxp]

Would a section for live rock rubble be smart for my setup? This will be for a NPS tanks, so there might be alot of food material running through it. I'm worried about it building up in the rock, instead of cleaning a filter sock.

[FireWater]

Mine is set up to run a filter sock and there is a holder for it built in- I had some difficulty with the last one so I am waiting for a replacement. I had to put that much live rock in there to slow down the velocity of water due to no sock in place. What I have noticed so far is that most of the "stuff" flows down past the rocks and settles in the skimmer chamber. I did notice that the filter socks clog up quickly and I will run one that is not as fine meshed as the old one - basically something to catch the big chunks.

[txg8gxp]

Anything else need to be changed?

[Big_Pun]

are you planning on goin with live sand or bare bottom, if bare i can show you mine very simple even have a huge coralife 220 skimmer, i used a 29g tank

[txg8gxp]

How thick should the panels be?

[txg8gxp]

It will have a sand bed



are you planning on goin with live sand or bare bottom, if bare i can show you mine very simple even have a huge coralife 220 skimmer, i used a 29g tank

[Big_Pun]

check this out not sure if you have been here but lots of info
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/glass/index.html

[txg8gxp]

I think this will work for everything I need.

[FireWater]

Looks good. How many changes is that now? LOL
The skimmer is going to pull water from the return chamber? I believe enough "stuff" gets by the skimmer and filters to be beneficial to the fuge. My opinion and experience - I have not tested that theory.

[txg8gxp]

Ya, alot of changes. Hopefully almost done. The skimmer will pull water from chamber 1(right side), Same as were the tanks drain into.



Looks good. How many changes is that now? LOL
The skimmer is going to pull water from the return chamber? I believe enough "stuff" gets by the skimmer and filters to be beneficial to the fuge. My opinion and experience - I have not tested that theory.

[kkiel02]

I agree with firewater and all mine have followed this design. From over flow to skimmer chamber, then from skimmer chamber to fuge, then onto the return area. I dont use filter socks but alot do as mechanical filtration. I use live rock instead. Anyways I hope it turns out good for you and I will be building another 55-60 gallon one pretty soon so maybe I will get some ideas.

[txg8gxp]

Labeled

[txg8gxp]

I'm alittle worried about trying to run without a filter sock, because this will be a NPS tank with tons of feeding. I dont want the rubble chamber to get filled with old food.



I agree with firewater and all mine have followed this design. From over flow to skimmer chamber, then from skimmer chamber to fuge, then onto the return area. I dont use filter socks but alot do as mechanical filtration. I use live rock instead. Anyways I hope it turns out good for you and I will be building another 55-60 gallon one pretty soon so maybe I will get some ideas.

[FireWater]

NPS = nonphotosynthetic correct?

I would run the filter sock if it makes you comfortable. Maybe even try it for a while w/out to see how bad it is. I just had a lot of "foam" ups from my sock and that is why I run w/out for now, but I do have a lot of maintenance that has to be done in the sump/fuge when I don't run it. I am waiting for my new ones to get here and then I will return to running w/ them - they are just a bigger mesh size than my old ones.

[txg8gxp]

Yes sir, I have read that socks are a pain. They get dirty fast, have to clean all the time. Yea, but if you don't clean it out of a sock you will be cleaning it from somewere else. Maybe I will add another wall in chamber 1. If the filter sock sucks, then I will have another chamber for rock rubble.




NPS = nonphotosynthetic correct?

.

[txg8gxp]

Any other advise before I deside to start building?