Jellyfish thriving in my tank....? *PICS added on PG03*

[Mr Cob]

Soooooo.... I finally have a witness and can post this without sounding crazy.

I have had this tank set up for over 6 months without any fish...mainly macro.... Caulerpa Prolifera and a few other species along with snails and no fish. The pod life is pretty interesting to watch. I have all types and sizes including Mysis Shrimp.

This tank has been maturing for the sole purpose of adding Dwarf Seahorses....until I purchased my new GCReef Onyx clowns which were too small for my 144.

So...since a couple of weeks ago I started feeding the tank regularly I notice a little jellyfish like creature...but only when the pumps were off and I was feeding. It would pulsate around as if it was feeding near the surface.

My wife said "That's a Jellyfish" and of course I thought no way. Anyways...over the last couple of weeks one has turned into 4.

Last night Justin was over and he also said it's got to be a jellyfish. We counted 2 last night.

Any ideas?

Tank: (my cell phone can not get a clear shot of them....they are TINY)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/robart1208/GCReef_Onyx_Clowns/GCReef_onyx_clowns_FTS_8g.jpg

[RayAllen]

Well I have to say if they are jellyfish, thats AWESOME!

They are suppost to be extremely fragile and if you are able to keep them, well thats just cool.

[corruption]

likely a Medusa stage of hydroid of some sort -- they tend to wax and wane... the fact that Zooplankton production is so high in the tank may be fueling their ability to survive longer than usual :)

-Justin

[Europhyllia]

I was thinking hydroid as well. Had bunches of them when my tank was newer

[corruption]

Same -- they always tended to wane off shortly after livestock was added... My assumption was always consumption of what zooplankton was being consumed, before it could support them further. Never had a problem with hydroid invasion though, just saw the medusoid stages early on. :)

-Justin

[Mr Cob]

Justin also thought this at first but we couldn't see any tentacles.

Here's an interesting thread with pics about the same subject but you can see tentacles on them...I can not on mine...but I don't have a magnifine glass either:
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77632

[corruption]

But there are many kinds of hydroids with a medusoid stage -- there are less jellyfish in close association with reefs that would make it any length of time in our aquaria.. I would suspect still that its a medusoid stage, but without a pic its just a blind guess... and even with a pic, its pretty much a blind guess :)

-Justin

[Mr Cob]

Well if they are hydroids...I definitely don't want them in there especially if I'm going to eventually have Dwarfs....but I'm assuming they will eventually die off?

[corruption]

Most the time, yes -- especially with the clowns in there, there will be less consumables for the hydroids to survive on (natural foods, at least).. Might be worthwhile to look over your rock thoroughly for any fuzzy colonies, if you still have em 6 months after setup :)

-Justin

[Mr Cob]

Cool. THX for the feedback.

[versach000]

jellyfish ??
smaller then 1/8" size?

Cladonema jellyfish if it's smaller then 1/8" size
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oGkmnAZ2BL1VYBlGxXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=Cladonema%20jellyfish&fr2=tab-web&fr=yfp-t-892

[corruption]

Cladonema are colder water -- I wouldn't suspect they would survive long in a tropical tank..

-Justin

[versach000]

is that look like this?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Cnidarians/Hydrozoans/Hydropolyps/Jelly+Fish+on+the+Glass+030609+(4)%5B1%5D.JPG

http://jellieszone.com/images/cladonema.jpg

http://jellieszone.com/cladonema.htm

[Mr Cob]

No.

They look more like this: (i'll try and study them tonight)
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c138/JoeVolcano/6G%20Bookshelf%20Nano%20Reef/IDHydroid.jpg

however the above pic could actually be the same as what you posted though.

[corruption]

Though small pics on the one you posted, Rob -- they're definitely not the same.. The visible structure on the ones posted by versach are very star-like, you can clearly see the ring formation on the ones you posted..

Get Erik over with his wife's DSLR, and see if you can get a good shot :)

-Justin

[Mr Cob]

From my naked eye I'm certain they are NOT star like.

[RayAllen]

From my naked eye I'm certain they are NOT star like.

Rob you need to put some clothes on your eye. Cheezy I know, lol

Im interested to find out what they are for sure. Ive had hydroids in the past that also disapperead shorlty after adding livestock.

[corruption]

Main reason I doubt they would be Cladonema sp., is because their typical distribution is nowhere near where most rock in the hobby comes from -- Northern California, British Columbia,European waters... All are a great deal colder than our tanks typically run -- even the Californian waters average mid 50's to 60's.. Not to rule out that it could be another sp. of jelly, but based on what I've seen in the past, hydroid is my guess.

-Justin

[justahobby]

Hydroid is a very likely guess. There was a couple things that turned me away from hydroids (besides the obvious exictment of them being jelies). One is they haven't attached yet. Rob said there were fewer out than the other day so did they attach or go through filtration? It would be interesting to see where they are coming from during feeding. A hydroid will typically perch during a state of rest whereas jellies float and hover. Two is the star shapped body w/ long tentacles seems to be almost universal in hydroids. As mentioned, this orgasnism has a def. spherical form.

[corruption]

The hydroids I had were spherical, and did not have a star-shaped body.. the ones that versach posted above are a small jelly species, which do -- all the ones I've had looked very similar to the pic Rob posted, which were definitely hydroids. They have a medusoid stage, which is how they spread, and a side effect of the reproduction -- with no predation, they can likely maintain for a while, but eventually wane off.. Not all hydroids are as evil as some of the nuisance ones are, fortunately :)

-Justin

[Mr Cob]

great info everyone. I appreciate your time and help.

[justahobby]

How did you ID your hydroids, Justin?

The organism could very well be in an ephyra state as a jellyfish or medusa state as Justin mentioned (though I fully understand the odds are in favor of them being hydroids). A hydroid's dominant state is that of an asexual polyp, like an anemone (resembling aptasia). I can't find anything that suggest how long the juvenile state might last. I suspect it is a variable dependent upon its enviroment. Rob, I advise you to let me monitor them in MY home so that we can be sure and there's really no need to stress the GC clowns out by moving them :bigsmile:

[Mr Cob]

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifI can't believe I was actually able to capture them with my cell phone....

5 at the surface (I made marks below follow the line down and you will see them)
............................I..................... ..I............I......I...I......................
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4310973888_ebd7755fbb.jpg

6 in this pic
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4310978386_ff6e158efc.jpg

3 in this pic....but one closeup
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4310975972_66dc08478f.jpg

Tonight I counted a total of 8!

[justahobby]

Great pics Rob! I can appreciate it 100% after seeing how tiny these guys are in person lol.

[Mr Cob]

Great pics Rob! I can appreciate it 100% after seeing how tiny these guys are in person lol.

Thanks dude...I thought no way I was going to get anything on my cell...but I did.

I posted the first pic so everyone can get an idea of how tiny these things are....you can barely see them in that pic. There is a clear shot of one in the first pic....directly above the clown's back and at the surface.

[justahobby]

oh wow, you really have to look close to see that one. Have you checked your rock work and glass for adult hydroids?

[Mr Cob]

oh wow, you really have to look close to see that one. Have you checked your rock work and glass for adult hydroids?

Yes. None that I can see.

[corruption]

Justin -- I pinpointed/ID'd my hydroids (geez, its been 5 years now...) purely by luck -- their colony that was established on the rock was readily visible after a bit of inspection on the back side of the rock... Once I found it, I compared until I found a match for both the colony and the medusoid stage.. I'll be danged if I could tell you anything specific about my findings anymore though :)

-Justin

[ErikH]

what the heck are those?!

[Mr Cob]

Justin the ninja...did you see the pics? Does that change anything?

[Mr Cob]

what the heck are those?!


LOL, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

[RayAllen]

My hydroids didnt look like that! Better be careful or you are going to have a finding nemo moment on your hands. The scene where marlin and Dori swim through the jellies.

[tebstan]

My hydroids didnt look like that! Better be careful or you are going to have a finding nemo moment on your hands. The scene where marlin and Dori swim through the jellies.


"He shall be my squishy." :lauging:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKG5Km-XT_I

[txav8r]

That's crazy Rob! Those pics are insane. I can't believe you got a pic that close with a phone.

[Roo&Lis]

I have to agree that is crazy and very cool!

[Mr Cob]

I'd be willing to donate one or two of them for a science experiment to determine an ID on them.

Perhaps...Ace for your class or Justin for your addiction to ID things...?

I really want to know what they are and I'm afraid they won't last much longer....but I really have no idea and I'm just trying to not change any of my bad habbits with the tank....since they seem to be thriving.

[Europhyllia]

JELLYFISH (http://www.masla.com/invert/cnidarian.html) - and their Schyphostome reproductive polyps which will bud off small jellyfish (http://simulium.bio.uottawa.ca/bio2525/notes/images/Les_Cnidaires7.gif). The polyps are reported to able to inflict a very nasty sting with their nematocysts, so be careful in handling them. They are also extremely difficult to eradicate. Most hobbyist confuse the structures for hydroids when in fact there are numerous species of jellyfish which reproduce in this anchored polyp form.

Read this on Chuck's Addiction and thought it was interesting
http://www.chucksaddiction.com/hitchodds.html

If there are Jellies you may have these for a lot longer

[hobogato]

sure, i wouldnt mind having some in the classroom.

[Mr Cob]

sure, i wouldnt mind having some in the classroom.

Cool. I'll give you a bag of the food I'm feeding them too because that's the only time they come out and since I have like 10 different frozen foods crushed up and mixed together I have no idea what exactly they are feeding on in there.

Ace... you can have 2 and try and keep them alive.
Justin, justahobby... you can have one for research.

[Mr Cob]

Karin, thanks for the link and additional info.

[justahobby]

I was just telling Emily how I would love to see it under a microscope. I just need the microscope :confused:

[txav8r]

Sherry(snfkotara) has one with a digital display that you could post pictures from. Haven't heard from her in a while though.

[Mr Cob]

I was just telling Emily how I would love to see it under a microscope. I just need the microscope :confused:

Well, I can send one with you and you'll just need to get a microscope slide before it dies and press it until you can get to a microscope. Do any librarys or schools offer that for free?

[justahobby]

Hmm.....Let me get back to on that after I do some checking around. I'm pretty sure I can do it in the Biology lab at SAC. I need to find slides though. I had looked before and they are sort of hard to find. There's a hobby store by Texas Tropical that I will check at.


.............WOOOT this is going to be wicked!!

[Mr Cob]

COOL! Yeah, I'm pretty stoked too. Can't wait to see what the heck these creatures are.

[SoLiD]

off topic but, where are you planning on getting your dwarf sea horses from?

[Mr Cob]

off topic but, where are you planning on getting your dwarf sea horses from?

Not sure yet. My wife and I picked up a good book though: The Complete Guide to Dwarf Seahorses IN THE AQUARIUM, by Alisa Wagner Abbott.

On subject... So I post actual pics and everyone disappears and has no IDs for me...

They kind of look like little Pac-Man ghosts don't they?
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4310975972_66dc08478f.jpg

[Kristy]

They DO look like the Pac Man ghosts! I think you have little UFOs in your tank.

[Mr Cob]

I counted 5 tonight.

[SoLiD]

Not sure yet. My wife and I picked up a good book though: The Complete Guide to Dwarf Seahorses IN THE AQUARIUM, by Alisa Wagner Abbott.

I'm sure captive bred seahorses would be best, but if you are ever here in the Corpus area I know of a spot where you can catch some. You need waders to get there and alot of patience. Travis (Tropicana) and I must have made 200 scoops with a bait net and came up with only 6. One of the males was even pregnant which was really awesome when I saw him going through labor. I kept them in a JBJ Nano Cube 24. Sadly 3 of the guys went through the over flow and didn't make it. The other 3 and 5 of the babies were returned and released back to place where I found them. They are really small so you will have to be careful with them. Just thought would share that with you. Cheers and Good Luck. :wink_smile:

[Mr Cob]

Very cool info. I might PM you later down the road to talk some more.

As you can see from this thread, I'm doing pretty good with small delicate creatures...LOL! :)

[hobogato]

justin, we have some scopes at the school that are attached to digital cameras, if you wanted to take a look at it there, i am sure we could work something out.

[corruption]

Sorry I missed this, Rob! Thats nuts -- a phone camera grabbed that. Just wild. :)

I would still personally think hydroid, again, based on my own experiences -- but thats what I love about this hobby... So many unknowns! I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was a jelly instead.. would just be a new one for me :)

-Justin

[justahobby]

justin, we have some scopes at the school that are attached to digital cameras, if you wanted to take a look at it there, i am sure we could work something out.

Suhweeetness. Just tell me when the best times are and I will try to arrange something with Rob on a pickup.

[Mr Cob]

Sorry I missed this, Rob! Thats nuts -- a phone camera grabbed that. Just wild. :)

I would still personally think hydroid, again, based on my own experiences -- but thats what I love about this hobby... So many unknowns! I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was a jelly instead.. would just be a new one for me :)

-Justin

About time dude! I was waiting for you.

Well it looks like a jelly and swims like one.....BUT they drop into the rocks when the flow kicks back on and only come out when the flow is turned off. That's says Hydroid to me.

[corruption]

Me too -- bit it'll be interesting to see if any real taxonomic ID can be drawn from the microscope work. Either way -- they're fascinating to watch... I loved watching em bounce around when I set up my 20 gal :)

-Justin

[justahobby]

Haha, I have to sleep sometime man! I am pulling up ID's right now :D

[leliataylor]

They are hydroids. If you want them to proliferate add some newly hatched baby brine shrimp, you will get a population explosion. Since you are planning on adding dwarf seahorses to this tank I would recommend a serious eradication program or cycling a new tank for the seahorses. They drive dwarf seahorse keepers nuts and will kill seahorse fry or very small seahorses. Most of the dwarf keepers I know use Panacur to keep them in check, however the residual effects of the med would preclude using any of that rock, etc. in a reef tank.

P.S. If you want to see some macro images of couple of different species of hydroids go the the photo gallery at seahorse dot org.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks for the info Cheryl. Since you joined the site 6 days before me I will take your advice....LOL!

[zerreissen]

Hmm.....Let me get back to on that after I do some checking around. I'm pretty sure I can do it in the Biology lab at SAC. I need to find slides though. I had looked before and they are sort of hard to find. There's a hobby store by Texas Tropical that I will check at.

I wish I hadn't gotten rid of my microscope, in any case you can get slides and covers from Analytical Scientific at Bandera and Prue.

[leliataylor]

Thanks for the info Cheryl. Since you joined the site 6 days before me I will take your advice....LOL!

Rob, there is a entire topic dedicated solely to the care and rearing of dwarf sh at seahorse dot org. Discussions include tank design, special needs, propagation & rearing, foods & nutrition, sources of CB dwarfs, etc.

What size is your tank? It looks large enough to handle some H. fuscus. Fuscus are larger and easier to keep since they don't require a constant supply of live prey. Just a thought.

Macro is a seahorses dream! Nice tank by the way.

[aquasport24]

When it comes to seahorse i think Cheryl is a SME.........Subject Matter Expert:applause:

[marcusgonzales210]

well? did you ever look at them under a microscope? Are they still living?

[justahobby]

well? did you ever look at them under a microscope? Are they still living?

Still trying to coordinate that. :)

[marcusgonzales210]

wow it's been a while and they're STILL alive?