Clean Hands

[Kristy]

Ok, I've been wanting to post this thread for ages.

I modified my usual routine years ago and stopped wearing perfume on my wrist, with the assumption that at some point in the day my hands will end up in the tank. I also suffer from dry, wintry hands because I will only put hand lotion / body lotion, etc. on at night before bed so that I can wash it off in the morning.

I'm a bit of an OCD hand washer anyway and then do extra rinsing to make sure there's nothing on my hands for the next time I go into the tank. I once heard / read a story about a woman killing her fish because she still had a bit of soap on her hands after washing them. I worry about all kinds of things harming my water, corals, fish. Like deodorant (since it is not too uncommon for me to reach way down in the tank and be in up to my armpit).

So... am I the only one making all these accomodations? Is it even necessary? What do we actually need to worry about being on our hands and getting into the tank? I'd love to hear others' input.

[corruption]

You're not the only one -- I did it for many years as well. The ones that I've ever heard ancedotal evidence as to being major issues, are perfumes and anti-persperant deodorants... The anti-persperant variants use aluminum oxide as well as a couple other choice metals, if I recall correctly, to prevent perspiration.. These metals are where the concern comes in, AFAIK..

As far as soap goes -- I used to worry that one a lot, but it became very unfeasable for me (since my hands are constantly in contact with my wheels -- which are in turn constantly in contact with the ground.) For 4+ years now, I wash my hands regularly with soap, and have done so on many occasions just before going elbow-deep into the tank. I've yet to have a deleterious effect from the soap.

I think that a perfumed soap would probably be one you want to avoid, depending on what the components of the scent are. I tend to use the basic scented SoftSoap for my hands, but have also used dishwashing detergent -- never a negative that I've witnessed.

-Justin

[Europhyllia]

I use my own (made it myself) soap on my hands figuring the worst it could do would be to influence pH - not likely in the small amounts the soap would be anyway (as a residue after rinsing). No additives in that soap.
I also use plastic grabber tools if I just need to prod something around a bit or pick up a frag, etc. rather than sticking my hand in there.
And I don't use lotion anymore (just in case I forget)

[RayAllen]

This is great Kristy. Im also a OCD hand washer my self. Im also addicted to hand sanitizer. My hand just cant be clean enough.

Yesterday I was working on my 62 VW and changed out the fuel filters. Needless to say I had fuel all over my hands. I washed the heck out of them with Gojo mechanic hand cleanser, but even doing that I didnt touch my tank at all after yesterday.

I really want to get some gloves that go up to my arm pits just for the tank...

[tebstan]

I'm an OCD hand washer too. But I'm skeptical of this hand sanitizer fad. Sure it's convenient, and it kills germs. But it leaves the dead germs on your hand. Eeew.

[corruption]

Me, I'm a firm believer in the George Carlin school of sanitation thought... We have an immune system, that only gets stronger with practice. Why would I want to kill off germs, when they're what make me strong? :D

-Justin

[justahobby]

I use as hot of water as I can stand to rinse before arms enter the tank. I can feel my hands slicken up from the oils being rinsed away. My skimmer prefers this method. I don't suffer from dry hands though but I can see your plight. I use liquid detergent and wish they made concentrated dry detergent since I inevitably get the liquid on my hands. If a coral falls it has to wait until I can't smell the perfume on my hands. Justin, I'm glad you mentioned the metals in antipersperants.... I had no clue.

[twychopen]

Me, I'm a firm believer in the George Carlin school of sanitation thought... We have an immune system, that only gets stronger with practice. Why would I want to kill off germs, when they're what make me strong? :D

-Justin

+1

I only wash my hands after using the restroom pretty much. I go out in a machine shop part of the day and forget to wash my hands before I put them in my tank. Maybe I should be more careful but so far no problems. I figure there is enough water volume to dilute whatever it is that I have on my hands before making it toxic. Although, I make sure to never get any cleaning agent, such as glass cleaner or desktop cleaner, anywhere near the tank. If for some reason I have washed my hands with soap, and I want to put them into the tank right after, I usually run fairly hot water over them for at least 30 seconds. (studies have shown that not much actually happens if you do for less than about that time.)

[corruption]

Studies have also shown that soap, while will get the grit and dirt off with its scrubbing/solvent action, actually does very little in terms of antibacterial/antimicrobial disinfection. The moving (preferably warm-to-hot) water coupled with the motion of rubbing the hands together is the main source of this action.

Justin -- yeah, thats actually the key difference in marketing a deodorant as either 'deodorant' or 'anti-perspirant', is that the metals in the anti-perspirant essentially clog your pores on a microscopic level, temporarily blocking the sweat glands from producing. Deodorants purely mask the end result :)

-Justin

[Europhyllia]

Me, I'm a firm believer in the George Carlin school of sanitation thought... We have an immune system, that only gets stronger with practice. Why would I want to kill off germs, when they're what make me strong? :D

-Justin
Not to mention bacteria evolves in response to our germ killers as well. I'd rather keep it guessing and surprise it when I need to rather than have the bacteria kick it up a notch too.

[corruption]

Here's the man himself putting it far better than I could ever hope to... :D

[twychopen]

hahaha i laughed so hard!

[bexarhunt]

I suffer from very dry skin so use lotion everyday. Although I try to remember to wash my arms all the way up before I dive in to my tank, there are times that I forget (pretty often) and I have not had anything bad that has happened as far as I can tell. Now I do use hypoallergenic, fragrance free lotion. Wonder if that makes it reef safe????

[allan]

Awesome Justin, I live by his words every day (that and the seven words). Build up that immunity... of course now I'm battling something on (in?) my fingers. Being a dude I've got a few cuts on my hands and this weekend's tear down and build up didn't fare well with my immune system.

I went to see the doctor today and they said I "may have an infection"... What the heck, typing has become very painfull, my fingers are so swollen I can't even get 'em into my nose. I "may have an infection" resulted in a ten day trial of our medicine industry.

I always wonder about the lotion (dude... not able to apply) or hand soap. But I have to ask, what are you all thinking? I keep wondering abut my deoderant when I'm shoulder deep... :D

[Bill S]

Studies have also shown that soap, while will get the grit and dirt off with its scrubbing/solvent action, actually does very little in terms of antibacterial/antimicrobial disinfection. The moving (preferably warm-to-hot) water coupled with the motion of rubbing the hands together is the main source of this action.

Justin -- yeah, thats actually the key difference in marketing a deodorant as either 'deodorant' or 'anti-perspirant', is that the metals in the anti-perspirant essentially clog your pores on a microscopic level, temporarily blocking the sweat glands from producing. Deodorants purely mask the end result :)

-Justin

This is EXACTLY right. I absolutely HATE hand sanitizers. All they do is move it around. They do NOTHING for viruses, which is where most of our problems come from (cold and flu).

As for influenza viruses, the best practice is rubbing your hands briskly under running water - no soap. Yup. No soap. Physical removal is the best defense.

Having been in the hobby for so many years - including 8 years in a LFS - I've ALWAYS washed my hands with unscented dish soap. Dawn, most of the time.

For those OCD types, my sister, a former dairy farmer says it best: "Everyone eats a pound of dirt a year. Might as well get yours in early." BTW, her kids were never sick. My OCD sister's kids were ALWAYS sick.

[Kristy]

of course now I'm battling something on (in?) my fingers. Being a dude I've got a few cuts on my hands and this weekend's tear down and build up didn't fare well with my immune system.

I went to see the doctor today and they said I "may have an infection"... What the heck, typing has become very painfull, my fingers are so swollen I can't even get 'em into my nose. I "may have an infection" resulted in a ten day trial of our medicine industry.


Allan-
On three different occasions (always after I've just done major rock re-work and handled lots of corals) I have ended up having an allergic reaction to a coral sting where my finger tips are numb and tingly, very swollen and red, feel like they are going to burst from the pressure... very uncomfortable. The worst time I had numbness up my arm. It always subsides after 2 - 3 days and responds well to Benadryl. Give it a try.

+1 on not believing in the hand sanitizer gel - I just go for more hand washing!

[Europhyllia]

Actually that's my number two criteria when trying to spot fellow reefers.
#1 is the actinic glow emitting from their house (when I go to visit somebody for the first time and am not sure about address)
#2 are the ever so slightly infected cuts on the hands. :D

[GoneReefing]

Me, I'm a firm believer in the George Carlin school of sanitation thought... We have an immune system, that only gets stronger with practice. Why would I want to kill off germs, when they're what make me strong? :D+1 on this.

I too believe in hand washing when appropriate (before eating, after the restroom, etc) but the folks who are constantly using hand sanitizers are just helping the germs make a super race of germs :at_wits_end:

[allan]

Allan-
On three different occasions (always after I've just done major rock re-work and handled lots of corals) I have ended up having an allergic reaction to a coral sting where my finger tips are numb and tingly, very swollen and red, feel like they are going to burst from the pressure... very uncomfortable. The worst time I had numbness up my arm. It always subsides after 2 - 3 days and responds well to Benadryl. Give it a try.

+1 on not believing in the hand sanitizer gel - I just go for more hand washing!

Koolness! I hadn't thought about an allergic reaction. I will try the benadryl. Last night the swelling in one of my fingers moved up into the middle of my hand. I assume it came from the finger that looks like a red hot sausage. Now it's read and swollen up to the top of my hand. I go back tomorrow for a follow up, while there I'll bring up the reaction thing.

I still have your stuff (as you are probably well aware of). I was thinking about bringing it by over the weekend?

[Europhyllia]

Allan that sounds pretty severe!
Have you looked through Ping's medical info articles in the library to see if it had anything applicable?
http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36830
http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36829

[lrg]

Me, I'm a firm believer in the George Carlin school of sanitation thought... We have an immune system, that only gets stronger with practice. Why would I want to kill off germs, when they're what make me strong? :D

-Justin

LOL - +2 My dad always used to tell mum the same when she was freakin out over some candy falling on the ground and me eating it or eating with dirty hands.....

[Paul28]

I just dont wash my hands or take showers so im ok to stick my hands in my tank :)





JK i do youse soap to wash my hands but mosly i youse just water during the day me not to warried about my self just my fish tank :)

[mamapuff]

I tend to overwash my hands. I take my rings off because I'm scared soap is in little crevices, and don't wear lotions or perfumes on my arms or hands. I never thought about my deodorant though.

[tony]

im probably the minority here, if i wash my hands before putting them in the tank it is usually just a quick rinse. i too wash my hands often enough not to worry about it.

never had any ill effects