Algae Problem & Fish Problem

[lrg]

3 Problems guys...looking for some help;

1. Koran Emperor - She's always had this but I was wondering if it is a common issue and weather it can be resolved: White areas (Almost like raw skin?) near the Gills/Head: - This fish will probably be soon for sale so I would like it to be looking its best!

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo48/S60R_bucket/IMG_8959.jpg

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo48/S60R_bucket/IMG_8963.jpg

[lrg]

2: Algae! UGH!


See pics - a greenish hair appearing on my rocks for the first time ever - a LFS sold me some crabs to put in .... hopefully this will help? Any other ideas? Overfeeding? - 2 Cubes of brine S. per day for 2 lrg Clowns, 1 med Picasso? trigger, 1 lrg Emperor Angel, 1 lrg Damsel and one Med Damsel:

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo48/S60R_bucket/IMG_8956.jpg

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo48/S60R_bucket/IMG_8955.jpg

[lrg]

#3! Fish loosing its Tail! This fish seems health other than its loosing its tail! I do notice, however that the trigger takes after it often! - Could that be the problem?

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo48/S60R_bucket/IMG_8958-1.jpg

[Europhyllia]

I would think that the damsel getting bitten while it's trying to escape the trigger is a pretty good guess.

As for your algae: how old are your light bulbs and what do you have? How old is that set up?

[lrg]

I would think that the damsel getting bitten while it's trying to escape the trigger is a pretty good guess.

As for your algae: how old are your light bulbs and what do you have? How old is that set up?


Sorry Should have stated all that!

The set up is just over 4 years old, the rock has been in there for about 3.5 Clowns and damsels have been in there since day one!

Its 55G with a 15 G Wet/Dry Sump, Bio Balls, No Skimmer.

:lightbulb: 's is a 48" PC unit 2 tubes, both over 2 years old.

That is my thoughts on the fish as well.

- This is the first time I've had this problem. My last fish died around a year ago. The last thing to die was a spiny urchin which was from a friends tank about 2 weeks ago.

Water Change 5-10 G every other week .

Top off: 3-5 G per 10 days.

[alton]

1. Could be OLE, caused by water quality, stray voltage, food, or stress(Plain Brine Shrimp by itself is not enough to sustain an Angel)
2. Could be phosphates, water quality, I noticed of all your fish I did not see a algae grazer listed? Also I did not see any corals? GSP, Xenia, Frogspawn will hold there own in your tank and Xenia helps control phosphates
3. Damsels either pick or get picked on, if the trigger is chasing him it would make sense.(Sorry I don't like Damsels)

[Europhyllia]

:lightbulb: 's is a 48" PC unit 2 tubes, both over 2 years old.

You're not keeping that setup, right? Otherwise I would have thought your bulbs are way overdue for replacement. I bet the spectrum they put out is much more 'algae friendly' now.

Do you rinse your frozen food before you put it in?

You've been at it so long so you are using RODI I'm sure.

Bulb replacement would be my first course of action in your case. :)

[alton]

I am slow at posting, change your light out to a 4 lamp T5HO or a 4 lamp CFL and change lamps once a year to keep corals mentioned in my last post.

[Europhyllia]

2.Also I did not see any corals? GSP, Xenia, Frogspawn will hold there own in your tank and Xenia helps control phosphates


Ha Alton you are like me! Not long ago I ordered a fish online and they wanted to send me a freebie with my order and asked if I had a reef tank. I thought that was such a stupid question. HELLLLOOO! They're a saltwater fish/coral supplier. What did they think I keep it in the bath tub? Then it dawned on my that some people do keep FOWLRs and FOs. I jsut usually don't even think of them as an option...
I think this tank is a FOWLR.

[Bill S]

The damsel will soon become trigger food. The tail fins first to slow it down, then the eyes.

I echo the above on the lights. Old lights = algae problems. The spots on the angel could also be trigger bites. Aiming for the eyes...

[marshall.read]

the angel's splotches could also be related to the algae problem. excess nutrients/organics in the water will cause the algae problems and has been known to cause white splotches on angels. adding a skimmer would be a good idea. is the angel grazing on the algae? if not, you should supplement the angel's diet with some green plant matter (nori seaweed from grocery store works well).

i agree with the others that the damsel is being picked by the trigger. the other damsels and clownfish are likely to end up suffering the same fate in time.

a foxface may help clean up the algae problem, his venemous spines MAY shield him from trigger harassment and they are very good at eating hair algae. but understand this is treating the symptom, not addressing the cause (excess nutrients/organics in water).

[lrg]

1. Could be OLE, caused by water quality, stray voltage, food, or stress(Plain Brine Shrimp by itself is not enough to sustain an Angel)
2. Could be phosphates, water quality, I noticed of all your fish I did not see a algae grazer listed? Also I did not see any corals? GSP, Xenia, Frogspawn will hold there own in your tank and Xenia helps control phosphates
3. Damsels either pick or get picked on, if the trigger is chasing him it would make sense.(Sorry I don't like Damsels)


Thanks for the response - OLE? Sorry to be dumb...

I'll double check the food - I've had the Emperor for a year + and not switched foods...

No algae grazer - I used to have a pincushion urchin but that died around 8 months ago, I had another for about 3 weeks but the thing was half dead before I tried to save it.


- This algae is new though.. it not like it started right after something changed apart from moving the tank - it is possible some natural light gets on the tank about 1-2 hours of the late evening.

I didn't think I had enough light for coral with a regular PC light.

I hate the dams too - the only reason they are in there is that the LFS where I bought the tank said: "You will definitely kill your first fish in about 2-3 months so just use these..." I haven't had the heart to kill them on puropse so hence their still there!

[lrg]

the angel's splotches could also be related to the algae problem. excess nutrients/organics in the water will cause the algae problems and has been known to cause white splotches on angels. adding a skimmer would be a good idea. is the angel grazing on the algae? if not, you should supplement the angel's diet with some green plant matter (nori seaweed from grocery store works well).

i agree with the others that the damsel is being picked by the trigger. the other damsels and clownfish are likely to end up suffering the same fate in time.

a foxface may help clean up the algae problem, his venomous spines MAY shield him from trigger harassment and they are very good at eating hair algae. but understand this is treating the symptom, not addressing the cause (excess nutrients/organics in water).

Thanks - basically I want to clean the rock up before it moves into the new tank - I have tried the algae from the LFS on the clip for the angel but it doesn't seem interested.

So far the trigger leaves the clowns alone but he's growing fast. Could be the excess.. I have an old skimmer I could try out ... I used to have a prism skimmer which either overflowed or didn't skim at all.

[lrg]

I think this tank is a FOWLER.

LOL...I've been caught out dumb again...I'm thinking ..FOWLR..as it was spelled when I first read it..Fish Only With Live Rock.........
My tank is a Fish Only With Live Rock!

Cheers and sorry for confusion!

[Europhyllia]

Yup FOWLR (got kids crawling on me while I type) :D

[lrg]

You're not keeping that setup, right? Otherwise I would have thought your bulbs are way overdue for replacement. I bet the spectrum they put out is much more 'algae friendly' now.

Do you rinse your frozen food before you put it in?

You've been at it so long so you are using RODI I'm sure.

Bulb replacement would be my first course of action in your case. :)

I don't rinse the food...I just let it sit in a container of the tank water for about 15-20 mins....

Yes, using RODI..

You are right, I may not be using the tank, but I would like to move my rock free of the algae - I'd rather not deal with it in the new tank.

The Emp. will either get a new home or stay in the old tank if we keep it, either way I wish I could cure the problem.

Thanks for all your help btw! :thumbs_up:

[alton]

This was a 158 I use to have, except for the two SPS, all other corals grew under PC lighting before moving to MH. Switch your lighting and add corals. There is not a reason to have a tank without them, it is not natural. I feed mini mysis, brine shrimp enriched with spirlina, PE mysis, jumbo mysis(your trigger will love it), algae sheets

[lrg]

This was a 158 I use to have, except for the two SPS, all other corals grew under PC lighting before moving to MH. Switch your lighting and add corals. There is not a reason to have a tank without them, it is not natural. I feed mini mysis, brine shrimp enriched with spirlina, PE mysis, jumbo mysis(your trigger will love it), algae sheets


Your pushing me and tempting me to set this tank up as a second reef....Hummmmm....The new tank for sure will be a full reef!

[marshall.read]

Switch your lighting and add corals. There is not a reason to have a tank without them, it is not natural.

excerpt from wetwebmedia.com written by Bob Fenner: "Still, there are some fishes that are demonstrably capable of learning, and remembering. The "highest" Order of fishes (Tetraodontiformes), including the Triggerfishes, Filefishes, and Puffer groups are very smart indeed; using tools, visual and audible communication, and possessing a rich repertoire of social behaviors."

These fish, along with Angels, are not compatible with coral. While its true that many people take their first steps into the saltwater hobby with FOWLR aquariums, it should not be concluded that these tanks are inferior or any less enjoyable. They just offer a different set of enjoyment and reward. To each their own.

[lrg]

excerpt from wetwebmedia.com written by Bob Fenner: "Still, there are some fishes that are demonstrably capable of learning, and remembering. The "highest" Order of fishes (Tetraodontiformes), including the Triggerfishes, Filefishes, and Puffer groups are very smart indeed; using tools, visual and audible communication, and possessing a rich repertoire of social behaviors."

These fish, along with Angels, are not compatible with coral. While its true that many people take their first steps into the saltwater hobby with FOWLR aquariums, it should not be concluded that these tanks are inferior or any less enjoyable. They just offer a different set of enjoyment and reward. To each their own.


Thanks for that!

The Trigger's and Angel's are definitely active and interesting fish!

One of the reasons for the discoloration in the Angel, I'm told could be because its changing from a Juve to an Adult?
http://www.aquacraft.net/f0008a.jpg

[Big_Pun]

I would get rid of bio balls use rock rubble instead, also some chemi pure elite would help, on pc lights replacing every six months is usually best. bio balls are nitrate factories after a while.

[justahobby]

Fading, discoloration yes. You can see where the face of your angel is turning yellow. The blotches, to me, look bacterial.

You are calling the Angel a large. The trigger a medium. Your angel is still young and will grow a lot more. I take that to mean your trigger is around the 3-4 inch range. Picasso's aren't overly aggressive (at that size) and I would be surprised to find out he is causing the issues w/ your larger angel. It would be more likely if you told me you had a undulated or clown trigger.

Was the trigger a new addition or was he there first? Might make the difference of he is aggressive when you aren't around.

The damsel, on the other hand, is small and has irresistible flowy fins that could stimulate prey drive in the trigger.



WOOT! 1,000 Posts.

[lrg]

Fading, discoloration yes. You can see where the face of your angel is turning yellow. The blotches, to me, look bacterial.

You are calling the Angel a large. The trigger a medium. Your angel is still young and will grow a lot more. I take that to mean your trigger is around the 3-4 inch range. Picasso's aren't overly aggressive (at that size) and I would be surprised to find out he is causing the issues w/ your larger angel. It would be more likely if you told me you had a undulated or clown trigger.

Was the trigger a new addition or was he there first? Might make the difference of he is aggressive when you aren't around.

The damsel, on the other hand, is small and has irresistible flowy fins that could stimulate prey drive in the trigger.



WOOT! 1,000 Posts.

They've both been together over a year.

I reckon the damsel is being picked on which is fine - I just didn't want fin-rot spreading through the tank.

Sorry about the miscommunication re Angel - he is med - as he is just changing color now. (Looks large to me compared with everyone else in the tank!!)

I will try what everyone has said - - bio balls are about 4+ years old. (LFS is an active promoter of bio balls which is why I have so many.) I'll check my nitrates and post as soon as I can.

Image of Trigger to make sure I'm not screwing up the name:

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo48/S60R_bucket/IMG_8964-1.jpg

[corruption]

I would disagree with the sentiment about bio-balls stated in this thread, especially in this situation. Since you're running a FOWLR setup, and not a reef, chances are the bio-balls are a benefit... especially considering that this is a pretty hefty bioload for a 55 gallon tank. I would concur with everyone about food though -- brine shrimp has next-to-no nutritional value... its somewhat like potato chips for fish. Get em some mysis, or one of the many saltwater 'formulas' and I bet you'll see improvements all around.

I also agree with justahobby -- the spots don't appear to be related to the typical color morph when leaving juvenile stage..

-Justin