removing plastic rim on 75

[jesserettele]

Contrary of recomendations to not remove the plastic rim on the used 75 gallon that I picked up......

[jesserettele]

Anybody know of the best way to remove old silicone from glass without ruining the silicone in the 4 corners?

[txg8gxp]

Take your time with a razor blade and you will be fine.

[jesserettele]

It had a center brace so I am ordering an acrylic cap that Allied plastic is milling for me. I have two that I drew up and I think I am going without the center brace just because I will be I-beaming the top with the acrylic top. $20 for 6 sq feet and $30 for the computer routing. I hope it will look like a rimless.....we'll see?

What's the strongest silicone safe to use here?

[hobogato]

definitely go with the one with the center brace and be sure you rough up the acrylic where it will be siliconed to the top edge of the glass to make sure it holds. a more secure way to do it would be for them to make it 1/8" larger all the way around the outside and have them route out a grove for the edge of the glass to fit into. silicon just doesnt bond really well with acrylic.

[txg8gxp]

I like the no center bar look. I would think with the new rim installed, it should be plenty strong.

[txg8gxp]

I like the grove cut idea.


definitely go with the one with the center brace and be sure you rough up the acrylic where it will be siliconed to the top edge of the glass to make sure it holds. a more secure way to do it would be for them to make it 1/8" larger all the way around the outside and have them route out a grove for the edge of the glass to fit into. silicon just doesnt bond really well with acrylic.

[hobogato]

the reason i suggest the center brace design is this:

when the tank is full, it will put outward pressure on the middle of the front and back. that outward pressure could cause the inside edge of the flat acrylic to bow up or down out of the plane of the rest of the acrylic top - pulling it loose from the top edge of the glass as it lifts. with the center support, the front and the back keep each other from bowing and pulling loose.

[jesserettele]

I did some research on the acrylic and historically Cyro acrylite FF has been used which is an extruded acrylic and about 1/4 million molecular weight but the acrylic that I am using is cyro acrylite GP which is cell cast and is 2 million molecular weight. This is much stronger plastic and resists deformation which should greatly reduce the bowing but........."should"?

I definatly like the idea of the 1/4" groove/notch cut into the acrylic to seat down on top of the existing glass. I could go with a thicker acrylic which would increase strength and resistence to bow up or down out of the flat plane. Another idea would be to bond another acrylic strip on top of the acrylic cap all the way around and on end to I beam the acrylic in the up and down plane to reduce the possibility to bowing......

Is there another bonding agent that could potentially bond the acrylic to the glass besides silicone?

Should the top cap be fabricated out of glass instead of acrylic so that silicone will have a better bond? That top cap made of glass could be expensive though.

Thanks for brainstorming on this guys.

[jesserettele]

I removed the entire ABS plastic rim and am now trying to get all the silicone off. 4 razorblades later without any beer I decided to use my air dremel and a polishing cone that I sue to polish cylinder heads. Removes the silicone like a champ but not so great for the glass finish. I tested this on the back glass that will be covered up and ended up with a slight haze to the glass where I had polished. This was fine for the top edge that I found wasn't highly polished and the 4 corners don't even match up height wise. NO wonder plastic trim is added. It covers up sub optimal fabrication!

[jesserettele]

more pics

[jesserettele]

The problem is now that it is somewhat clean I can see some major scratches on the front and the side that will be the most viewable. They are deep enough to feel when running your finger nail across them and probably wouldn't buff out!!! :angry:

I guess I just created a sump and need to buy a 150 rimless and just be done with this or quit while I'm behind! :sick:

[Double-O-Zilch]

Jesse, I got a box of blades and tons of free time. Next time call me. Did you scratch it or were they already there?

[jesserettele]

Ha! They were already there. No confidence.


Jesse, I got a box of blades and tons of free time. Next time call me. Did you scratch it or were they already there?

[Double-O-Zilch]

Lol! I was just trying to figure out if they were from the rotary tool or the blades. I used to polish cockpit windows back in the day and, kinda, know what can be done. Long deep scratches you can hang a nail on are probably impossible though. Just depends on how much time and patience you have. I think we'll be running around again today, maybe we can swing by and I'll take a look. Got any 2 million sandpaper laying around!?

[jesserettele]

I just ordered some cerium oxide from http://www.rocksandgems.info/faceting_how_to/polishing_glass.shtml that GoneReefing recomended. After reading up on it sounds like I should be able to grind/sand with 2000 grit and work my way to the polishing compound. I can feel it with the finger nail test but it definately fails the head of the nail test. If you've got history with this stuff yeah stop by, it may save the long converation with my boss about why we have to get ANOTHER tank!

[jesserettele]

definitely go with the one with the center brace and be sure you rough up the acrylic where it will be siliconed to the top edge of the glass to make sure it holds. a more secure way to do it would be for them to make it 1/8" larger all the way around the outside and have them route out a grove for the edge of the glass to fit into. silicon just doesnt bond really well with acrylic.

So my project was complicated by pre-existing scratches, or should I say gashes in the glass! I will post that experience in the "glass scratches how do I remove them???" thread. In short it was not as successful as it could have been due to my lack of investing in expensive diamond pads to prep the surface before polishing.

Problems (why not remove the rim);
1. I found that the top of the glass pieces (front, back, and sides) are not assembled with symmetry in mind and were not flush.
2. The glass is a 1/4" and would require bracing of some sort, preferably glass since silicone sticks to glass and not acrylic as Ace points out.
3. A piece of glass custom cut to specs in my previous posts to euro brace the top would cost $135.00 because it needs to be water jet cut (quoted by our local River City Water Jet company), this does not include the price of the glass.
4. Having to thoroughly clean the surface residue left behind after trim is removed. I was only able to completely remove the stuff left behind by buffing it out.

Solutions (why it would be possible);
1. Acrylic and glass can be bonded with E6000 adhesive manufactured by Eclectic Adhesives http://www.eclecticproducts.com/e6000_ind.htm (http://www.eclecticproducts.com/e6000_ind.htm) available in clear and verified by their chemist, Omar and the MSDS sheet to not cause any leaching, solubility issues and does in fact adhere to acrylic and glass.
2. Acrylic Cyro GP acrylite cell cast is available from Allied plastics here in San Antonio and can be pre-cut to the specs in the previous posts for an additional $30.

So now I have a rimless glass 75 gallon sump with some polished sections. I decided to fabricate an acrylic tank instead of trying to find a deal on craigslist again and risking scratches (gashes) hidden by gunk.

In summary; removing the rim was a piece of cake, removing the silicone was more difficult but easily accomplished with razor blades and elbow grease, and a transparent euro brace to re-establish structural integrity is about $60 (pre cut from Allied), bonded with an adhesive that would hold two different materials and be marine safe.

[Double-O-Zilch]

That sucks Jesse. Sorry I never made it by to help out. Work and life have other plans for me! I'd really like to hear more about building the tank as I would like to do the same. I have very limited space and would like to build a brick, biocube of sorts. An all in one unit. Maybe our paths will cross and we can talk tank this weekend.

[Richard]

Jesse, I have a 75 that I'd like to get out of my garage. Black trim & black silicone. It's drilled but no overflow, it was a hiatt setup (the liverock tank from the store if you remember it). No scratches that I know of. It's yours if you want to come get it.

I'll be out of town tomorrow thru saturday.

[jesserettele]

Jesse, I have a 75 that I'd like to get out of my garage. Black trim & black silicone. It's drilled but no overflow, it was a hiatt setup (the liverock tank from the store if you remember it). No scratches that I know of. It's yours if you want to come get it.

I'll be out of town tomorrow thru saturday.

PM sent! Thanks Richard.

[jesserettele]

THANK YOU RICHARD for such an awesome deal and stocking me up with everything I need to get back in. You ROCK!

[Richard]

Your welcome Jesse. Have fun with it. Looking at the pics of everything I have to say that was an awesome deal lol.

[jesserettele]

Your welcome Jesse. Have fun with it. Looking at the pics of everything I have to say that was an awesome deal lol.

If you ever loose a limb let me know so I can "hook" you up in return.:bigsmile: Pardon the pun!:rofl: Thanks again.:thumbs_up: I've already drawn out plans for the stand and am on the way to HD to pick up the wood.:lauging:

[Double-O-Zilch]

Heard you made out like a bandit today. Quit playing on the computer and get it running!

[jesserettele]

Already! I built the stand.

I am also going to remove the rim on the new 75 that has 3/8" glass in pics posted previously here and had no center brace from the factory. It will be added to this thread to continue to removing plastic rim theme.

[jesserettele]

I ended up removing the rim on the bottom of this tank as well since it is now the sump (due to multiple pre-existing scratches in the glass). The glass rimless brick sump sits very tightly inside the stand that will offer support as well as acrylic baffles that will be added to support it when filled.http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad302/Jesserettele/75%20gallon%20stand%20build/DSC04361.jpg?t=1264964429

[jesserettele]

Now I removed the rim on the new 75 that I got from Richard. It had no factory center brace and the glass is 3/8" thick. It was a little easier this second time around.
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad302/Jesserettele/75%20gallon%20rim%20removal/DSC04377.jpg?t=1264964615
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad302/Jesserettele/75%20gallon%20rim%20removal/DSC04379.jpg?t=1264964648
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad302/Jesserettele/75%20gallon%20rim%20removal/DSC04381.jpg?t=1264964726
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad302/Jesserettele/75%20gallon%20rim%20removal/DSC04405.jpg?t=1264964839

[ErikH]

So if it breaks, then what?
:D

[jesserettele]

I hope to catch the bowing, the dripping leaks, and small puddles before all out break and flood. I guess I am willing to chance it.

I am confident that the rim does very little structually when there is no center brace. I guess I will figure out if I am right or wrong though huh?

If worst comes to worst I have a CAD file of a one piece acrylic top cap to "I" beam that can always be attached at a later time.

Oh yeah one update.....Omar the chemist from Ecclectic adhesives called be back after running some specific test for salt water aquariums. He wanted to let me know that they will be updating their MSDS to reflect marine applications.