Parker's 14 gallon

[Double-O-Zilch]

Hey guys, I'm new to the hobby and thought I'd share the good as well as the bad times with my first saltwater attempt. As some of you may know my dwarf fuzzy lion fish is the first loss. I really miss that guy. Never had a fish charge to the glass and throw it's fins out at me before. Little guy had some personality and was ugly enough to be beautiful. At the moment I just have a mollie left over from trying to feed him and a couple zoas I picked up today. So far the mods have just been to add a carbon sock to the first chamber and add LR rubble to the second. I moved the bio balls over to the pump side cause I just can't let go yet. I've got my eye on a skimmer for the third chamber but I'm going to do a little more research on them first. Any input is greatly welcomed as I am learning as I go. Here's some pics of the progress so far.

May he rest in the big ocean in the sky.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_05812.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0591.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0593.jpg

An improvised frag, used what I had at hand.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0595.jpg
*Kinda hard to see in this small pic but two baby zoas are tied to the rock with fishing string, hope they take.

[Mr.Schertz]

ditch the bio balls, you wont need a skimmer in a tank that small. Cut the tab on the first chamber overflow to increase your flow. Knock out the false floor in chamber one to cut back on detrius getting stuck in the first chamber. Throw some chaeto in the second chamber to eat up your nitrates.

[Double-O-Zilch]

I need to learn more about this chaeto, I'm not familiar with it yet. Currently I have LR rubble in the second chamber, leave it in or take it out? Getting more flow by cutting the wall was on my to do list for today. I plan on running around later so I'll research the chaeto more and pick some up. Thanks Mr.Schertz.

* Quick search and I know what chaeto is.

[Europhyllia]

Wouldn't bioload and frequency of water changes be more of a factor in determining if a skimmer is needed than tank size?

Lots of members can give you free chaeto. We always have to throw it out. It grows so fast. I think you can also get it at Aquarium Design for $5 or so.

[saabtech]

first lets sloooooow it doooown. some good ideas but lets not get carried away tooooo quickly.

that is good you havent let go of the bio-balls yet. you dont know if the live rock has cultivated enough bacterial colonies to support your tank. you can leave them in there as long as you like.

i would leave the live rock in the chamber. and in my tank i decided to brake up some of the rubble into smaller chunks to increase surface area and got more.

mr. Schertz has alot of good info but take it slow and do more research about the 14g DIY (do it yourself) mods. there is alot of good information out there you just need to take it slow.

and before you go spending money on a skimmer. Euromom is correct. what kind and how many fish are you going to have? how much live rock? what kind of coral and inverts? what kind of cleanup crew? how often do you want to do water changes?

[cbianco]

ditch the bio balls, you wont need a skimmer in a tank that small. Cut the tab on the first chamber overflow to increase your flow. Knock out the false floor in chamber one to cut back on detrius getting stuck in the first chamber. Throw some chaeto in the second chamber to eat up your nitrates.

I would have to disagree. Any fish in a 14 gallon tank would quickly foul the water. A quick search would yield several skimmers that are made specifically for the Biocube.

JMO.

Christopher

[corruption]

Christopher: it would be entirely based on your husbandry skills. I'm running no skimmer on my Biocube 8 here at work, and am not scared about nutrient export. Why? a 2 gallon water change is a 25% swap out. If I do this religiously on a weekly basis, I've exported somewhere in the range of 80-90% of the total original water out every 5 weeks... if you upkeep your maintenance, it is not difficult to maintain without a skimmer -- however, I would agree with you in that I would never recommend this route to a beginner. :)

-Justin

[Double-O-Zilch]

I've got 10 lbs plus of live rock easy. Not sure the exact amount but I have bought 6 lbs for sure. Some from my brother in law and some picked up today at AD. All of it should be live and kicking. I had enough rock and pieces to collapse the false bottom in the center chamber. I added a little chaeto to the center and left all the rock in there. One question I have is how much light does the chaeto need? Should I remove the drip pan from the second chamber? So far my bioload is 1 emerald crab, 1 tail spot blenny, 1 tough black mollie, a whole bunch of zoos, and a few polyps. I would like to add a few more small fish and a shrimp if compatible with what I have. I have no problem doing water changes, I'd just like to add a skimmer cause it wouldn't make it worse, only better. Right?

[Double-O-Zilch]

Didn't see a place to thank people and couldn't post in the for sale thread so....Thanks to Miziny and Jose, good people, and it was fun to talk tank and pick up some frags. :shades:

[Mrs. z28pwr]

Nice meeting you guys! I hope all your frags do well. We love tank talk.. Let us know if you need any help. Good luck with your friends rock work.

[Double-O-Zilch]

I was the one doing the rock work, my brother in law who bought up everything was the tag along! Here's some up to date pics on the tank and mods thus far. I went big on the pics so the detail would show. Sorry if it slows some of you down.

FTS
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0605.jpg

Emerald crab and Black mollie
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0608.jpg

Tail spot blenny hiding
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0604.jpg

Mods
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0610.jpg
1st chamber has blue/white pad, carbon sock, stock filter and full flow mod.
2nd chamber has LR rubble and chaeta.
3rd chamber has bioballs.

[Mr Cob]

Looks great. How are you lighting your mini fuge? Did you pull the back plastic off?

[cbianco]

...I went big on the pics so the detail would show. Sorry if it slows some of you down.

IMO your pictures are the perfect size. Large enough to see, not so large that they make me scroll left and right! :wink_smile:

I give up, I can't find Waldo the blenny. Where is he?

Tail spot blenny hiding
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0604.jpg

1st chamber has blue/white pad, carbon sock, stock filter and full flow mod.
2nd chamber has LR rubble and chaeta.

Do you have a light on the Chaeto?

3rd chamber has bioballs.

Do you plan on keeping the bioballs temporarily or indefinitely?


Christopher

[Mr Cob]

Chris, he's to the left of the frag plug...he's black.

[Europhyllia]

I think he's right in the middle (dark brown with a light brown stripe on each side)?

Parker if you started with FW and are now doing SW keep in mind that recommended stocking density is not quite as high. I've kept a pair of ocellaris clowns in a 30g tank and tha seemed perfect so to me 1 fish in a 14g seems about right.
I wouldn't add several more but I'm fairly conservative when it comes to stocking.

I agree on the skimmer. A little added 'insurance' for water quality won't hurt and probably will really help especially if you do add more to your bioload.
:)

[cbianco]

Chris, he's to the left of the frag plug...he's black.


I think he's right in the middle (dark brown with a light brown stripe on each side)?...

Ah...I think I see him...lol.

:D

Christopher

[Mr Cob]

Cool little guy isn't he!

[Mr.Schertz]

I would open up the rock work to get more flow going through the tank. I would lose the live rock rubble and bio balls out of your rear chambers. This only adds to detrius accumilation. Knock out the siliconed floor in the first chamber. Leave your drip tray in chamber two and put your filter media on top of that. You could leave your chemical media sack sitting in chamber two with the cheato on top of it. I run a submersible 5watt light for my chaeto. I run it at night for a revervse light cycle(helps with ph). Dont be afraid to raise the water level past the max line on the side. It adds a bit more water in the tank and keeps my salinity a little more stable. Keep your fish load light. It will pay off in the long run. I dont have a skimmer, I change 2.5 gallons a week with RO/DI. I do it the same day every week. My stocklist includes,some leathers,zoas,gsp,shrooms, and acans,one clown, and cuc. I have a three chamber media rack. Floss on top,chemi pure elite in the middle,and chaeto on the bottom. I have a Koralia1 for circulation and a MJ900 for the return pump. Hope your tank runs smoothly and keep those nitrates at 0. I only feed my fish 2twice a week,and yes,he is healthy.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Lighting the chaeto was gonna be my next question. I was thinking a high intensity LED or something. Maybe modding the hood to let more light back. :confused: I'm gonna leave the bioballs and LR rubble for now just to make sure the bacteria is stocked up in the tank before I pull them out. The rocks look a lot closer in the pic but in person you can see that I tried to plan for the flow. Just looks tight in the pic. All kinds of holes for that blenny to run through. He was still mad in that pic so his color was dark. That dark brown with two strips is him. He's back to being colorful today. Mr.Schertz, if you could get some pics or point me to them it would help me out. I can wrap my brain around stuff better when I see it. I haven't paid attention too the min/max lines since I got it, I fill it up till it just reaches the top of the intake slots on the first chamber. I got a count on the zoos and there's currently 11 different kinds 3 different mushrooms. I'd like to add maybe 1 more fish as the black mollie is boring and the blenny is always hiding. I still would like to add the skimmer, just cause I see what my brother in laws pulls out. Oh, I do 3 gallon water changes and so far it's been about 3 in the first week! Maybe a 3 gallon every week to two as needed once everything smooths out.

[txg8gxp]

I'm debating building a led strip, or just buy one of the underwater lights
http://shop.mediabaskets.com/DOUBLE-Underwater-Light-DOUBLEQL02.htm

[Double-O-Zilch]

Sweet link Steve. Very affordable too. I'll have to look around and see what else they got.

* That media rack is awesome, may be placing an order this weekend.

[txg8gxp]

Media basket is awesome, I was going to order 2 weeks ago but was out of stock.

[Mr.Schertz]

All you need is a submersible light for the chaeto. You could light it from the back,but that would be annoying at night.

[Mr.Schertz]

Sweet link Steve. Very affordable too. I'll have to look around and see what else they got.

* That media rack is awesome, may be placing an order this weekend.
I have the media rack and its great....you mentioned earlier you wanted to leave the live rock and bio balls in there and wait till the bacteria builds up. If you wait,then pull it out your gonna go through a cycle again. Your live rock and sand is more than enough biological filtration. If you wanna leave them in,thats fine. Im just speaking from my experience.

[saabtech]

I would open up the rock work to get more flow going through the tank.
+1
you have alot of rock in there and once your fairly certain that there is enought bacterial colony on that rock you can remove the bio-balls.
what other fish do you plan on adding.
what are your parameters after about a week with no water change?

[txg8gxp]

Make sure to check that the valve isn't closed off on the pump...Mine came out of the box with the pump only about 3/4 open. I opened the valve all the way and did the cut mod between chamber 1 and 2. I am kinda surprise at how much flow it does have...and I also went alittle rock crazy.

[Double-O-Zilch]

So I get home this morning and my blenny is dead. Already picked over by the crab. The mollie looks like it has ich. The mollie now lives in my brother in laws pond. Is it possible to have all parameters good and have something in the tank just killing my fish? You can bet a water change is coming, a big one at that. I have the 5 in 1 test strips, should I be testing for more than they offer? Could the mollies have been carrying something? Nothing died till they showed up and the zoos are happy as all get out. Any thoughts on this would be great.

[Europhyllia]

Parker,

slow down! :)
You only got this tank right before Christmas right?
It's way easier on your livestock if you let things develop slowly rather than putting the max amount of livestock in there right after you set it up.
Things have to adjust, develop and balance out SLOWLY.
Rushing things will only cause your livestock stress and you a bunch of money by having to constantly replace the livestock.
Many of us are just watching rocks for the first few weeks. It's a process that takes patience.
I think it's Justahobby that has it in his siggy: Only bad things happen fast.

[txg8gxp]

I too rush into the fish alittle fast. Two clowns got sick, I removed them to a QT tank. They only lasted there about 4-5 days. I just now desided to give it another shot. I picked up two cheap blue/green chromis after waiting about two weeks. Sorry to hear about your bad luck, It will all work out in the end. Try to just take your time, I know its supper hard. Stephen.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Keep in mind I bought this tank used. Kept all the water and rocks. It was another members QT tank, had two chromis in it. It's been through all the cycles already. Does it still need time to readjust after breaking it down and building it back up? My brother in law did the same thing with a 220 gallon and he lost no fish. Most of his water was new too.

[corruption]

I have the 5 in 1 test strips, should I be testing for more than they offer?

Here's a big part of your problem -- I guarantee none of your readings are in any way accurate... Test strips are notoriously inaccurate, to extremes... They may be great for verifying the chemical balance in a hot tub, but buy at minimum proper liquid reagant tests, if not high quality titration tests (such as Salifert, LaMotte, Elos)... These dip strips at best give a range, thats far too wide to even begin to give you an idea of whats really going on in your tank.. With a proper test kit, I bet you'll find you've got some ammonia/trate/trite cycling through..

Regarding your question if a quick breakdown and reassembly is enough to re-initiate a tank cycle -- absolutely. If the biological filtration was heavily disturbed enough, it can happen quickly. Don't compare situations in a 200+ gallon aquarium to a 14 gallon Biocube either -- other than the fact that they both contain saltwater, very little matches up between them. On a 200+ gallon tank, theres going to likely be another 20-50+ gallons in filtration -- we're now looking at nearly 300 gallons worth of water to provide stable water conditions. When the nitrogen cycle gets kicked into full gear in that size of water, chances are its going to be so dilute, you'll never notice the issues. This is a completely different story in a 14 gallon tank -- stability in such a situation is pretty much out the window, and if something goes toxic in the water, it impacts the ENTIRE water column on a large scale.

Just to echo what everyone above has stated: Slow down! You'll burn yourself out quick if you keep going at this pace -- don't do it! Take it slow, and this hobby provides SO much more than the initial joy of seeing life in your tank :)

-Justin

[Double-O-Zilch]

Yeah, patience is not a quality I'm known to posses. I have decided to wait a week or two the let the tank settle down. I have been stirring stuff up by modding the chambers and rearranging the rocks. What the info I received today, my crab is all right so the water can't be toxic. I really believe I had an ich break out. The lion fish looked to have the beginning of it, the blenny was always hiding so.......and then the mollie had it for sure. Right now there are no fish in the tank. I'm gonna do a water change saturday and check all the parameters with my brother in laws fancy smancy test kit. Let her sit a week or two, get some damsels or maybe even a brackish puffer and try again. Thanks for all your help, I know I'll get this going some day. Being stubborn is for sure a quality I posses!

[Double-O-Zilch]

Another noob question. I have a ton, I mean ton of isopods. I've never seen them before but it seems a convention is being held in my tank. They are all over the glass. I see fish like them but I have no fish right now. Are they out and about cause there are no fish in there?

[Double-O-Zilch]

Just got some more zoas and LR. Gonna try to make this the last tank rearrange session. Gluing everything down so the emerald crab will quit moving stuff, hopefully. New pics coming soon! Clone sold me on a skimmer, pushed me pretty hard too. ;) Thanks for all your help today, very informative. Off to working on the tank I go.

[Mr.Schertz]

Its not the Oceanic skimmer built for the bio cube is it?

[Double-O-Zilch]

Uh oh, maybe? Why? Tell me I just didn't waste my money.

[txg8gxp]

I almost grabbed it a few times...from what I have read they are ok not the best, but for the price not bad at all. I didn't grab it because I want to keep a heater in chamber 1. Let us know how well it works for you...

[Double-O-Zilch]

I've read up on the yays and nays too. Seems to be about equal to me. If it doesn't work, well I'll just have something else to tinker with. Darn! Lol.

[saabtech]

they all work. just some better than others.... i spent money on a 220g coralife superskimmer that some people hate and i have never had a compaint other than it takes out all the plankton i feed,,,,,, so i just leave it off alot of the time.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Update:

First off, thanks to Joelb and Gseclipse02 for the frags this weekend. These are my favorite pieces to date for sure. The skimmer is moody and when the lines not kinked, works OK I guess. Nothing to get all excited about. My tank is perfectly clean any way. :innocent2: List added this weekend includes, yellow watchman goby, scooter blenny, orange spotted goby, six line wrasse, dragon eye zoas, pom pom xenia, rainbow acans, eye of ra zoas, candy canes, green torch/frog spawn thing(can't remember name), red banded trigger shrimp, peppermint shrimp, 3 kinds of snails, ultra ricordia, and other assorted zoas. The trigger shrimp is MIA since he went in but every one else is happy, swimming, eating or opened up. The nudibranch is another story. He just hangs out on the front corner of the glass and hasn't moved since he got there. Think I'm gonna throw him in my brother in laws tank since he has sponges for him to eat. I may be asking for it by tossing all this in over the weekend but my parameters are good, I'm stocked with chemipure, purigen, carbon and dosing reef biofuel. Soon as I find a test kit other than the $100 one, I'll grab it. Till then I'm trusting my test strips. Wish me luck or make fun of me, either way it's already done!:nailbiting:

[corruption]

Go to Gabe's and get the SeaChem Marine Basic test kit -- he's got it for $40. This will blow your test strips out of the water -- but do get quality kits soon... Especially since you just added (in my opinion) beyond what your BioCube can handle..


Btw, when I say beyond what it can handle I'm speaking: overall bio load, psychological/physical crowding, and maturity level. The Scooter Blenny is basically a Mandarin, without the bright colors -- they will pick your rock clean of pods in a matter of days... Hope it takes to frozen/prepared food for you. Likewise, the wrasse eats the same 'pods, further increasing competition for food sources... The gobies being similar, and in a small body of water, have a very high potential of fighting...

All I can say is what has already been said before -- slow down, don't run into a brick wall... nothing is more frustrating than overwhelming yourself too quick.

-Justin

[Double-O-Zilch]

I was just at Gabe's yesterday and didn't see the kits. Seems every where I go they're sold out. Been looking for weeks now. The gobies seem to be pals, for now any way. The scooter has been seen to eat frozen food and the wrasse has yet to be feed. I'm gonna feed here in a second so we'll see how that works. I do have plans for a bigger tank already. I have a 55g but I'm also toying with the idea of building my own to suit my limited space. Hope to have more tank in a couple months either way. I've already got bigger tank disease. Thanks for the input Justin, and for the record, I always overwhelm myself. Why go feet first when you can see what's coming head first!

[Europhyllia]

and for the record, I always overwhelm myself. Why go feet first when you can see what's coming head first!

I think the difference is that when you involve animals/pets you are risking somebody else's well-being - not your own.

Ideally you would FIRST research the requirements for the fish you want to keep, then create an environment in which your chosen animals could thrive (not just survive).
Yes that includes the boring parts such as waiting for the cycle to complete, testing parameters, maintenance, not buying too many or too big for your tank, etc.
Then at last get the animals you want and care for them the way they deserve to be cared for.

I love my fish/inverts/etc. and reading about the disregard for these animals' needs is actually kind of upsetting to me.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Well I was gonna share the news my heat sink for the LED project showed up and the scooter not only eats frozen but sifts sand too. I'm sorry if I offended you, I was joking. I believe with my constant care and checking of parameters, even with the stick type, I'm not being neglectful. The dwarf fuzzy and nudibranch are the only ones I should have done more research on. In both cases I was lied to at the store and found out more on my own. For the record I am an animal lover and have been in situations where I stuck up for those who could not for themselves. Maybe I need to leave my sense of humor out of my thread. I spend every chance I can leaving nose prints on the tank and checking the well being of the inhabitants to the point they probably hate me. The only time the tank gets rest is when I'm working or doing research for it. At the moment everyone looks healthy and is eating well. If anything I'm neglecting other things I should be doing and not the tank.

[txg8gxp]

Let the led madness begin....I hate having to clean nose prints off the glass..

[Mr.Schertz]

Bro, your bio load is over the top. expect serious nitrates,serious algae,serious headaches. Why are you dosing? What are you dosing for? Don't dose(ever) unless your testing what your dosing for. Not trying to be an *** but you need to take a few steps back.

[corruption]

Bro, your bio load is over the top. expect serious nitrates,serious algae,serious headaches. Why are you dosing? What are you dosing for? Don't dose(ever) unless your testing what your dosing for. Not trying to be an *** but you need to take a few steps back.


I think the difference is that when you involve animals/pets you are risking somebody else's well-being - not your own.

Ideally you would FIRST research the requirements for the fish you want to keep, then create an environment in which your chosen animals could thrive (not just survive).
Yes that includes the boring parts such as waiting for the cycle to complete, testing parameters, maintenance, not buying too many or too big for your tank, etc.
Then at last get the animals you want and care for them the way they deserve to be cared for.

I love my fish/inverts/etc. and reading about the disregard for these animals' needs is actually kind of upsetting to me.

+2 -- I understand that you're doing the best in your power with what you've got -- but you're moving at such an accelerated pace, that you're clearly missing something major in your research. The overall load in your tank is FAR too high, considering both its age and its size. The problems everyone has been trying to quietly convey is the desire to do exactly what you described -- jump in WAY too far -- this is where the problems come from that lead to more people leaving the hobby than anything else. Everyone is trying to help you do whats best for both your sanity, your entertainment, and most importantly, those within your care. Its not an issue of keeping humor out of it -- its that many of us take it personally when we see people not doing their part to assist in the conscientious keeping of reef aquaria... these are the kind of situations that garner the hobby the bad reputation that it gets.

And btw -- Gabe keeps the SeaChem test kits behind the counter. There were 3 on the shelf last time I was there -- I'd be surprised if they were all gone.

-Justin

[Gseclipse02]

Update:

First off, thanks to Joelb and Gseclipse02 for the frags this weekend. These are my favorite pieces to date for sure. The skimmer is moody and when the lines not kinked, works OK I guess. Nothing to get all excited about. My tank is perfectly clean any way. :innocent2: List added this weekend includes, yellow watchman goby, scooter blenny, orange spotted goby, six line wrasse, dragon eye zoas, pom pom xenia, rainbow acans, eye of ra zoas, candy canes, green torch/frog spawn thing(can't remember name), red banded trigger shrimp, peppermint shrimp, 3 kinds of snails, ultra ricordia, and other assorted zoas. The trigger shrimp is MIA since he went in but every one else is happy, swimming, eating or opened up. The nudibranch is another story. He just hangs out on the front corner of the glass and hasn't moved since he got there. Think I'm gonna throw him in my brother in laws tank since he has sponges for him to eat. I may be asking for it by tossing all this in over the weekend but my parameters are good, I'm stocked with chemipure, purigen, carbon and dosing reef biofuel. Soon as I find a test kit other than the $100 one, I'll grab it. Till then I'm trusting my test strips. Wish me luck or make fun of me, either way it's already done!:nailbiting:

hey it was great to meet yall!!! its a euphyllia but when i looked at it again it seems thats just the species name or something..... no clue lol sorry. Cant wait to see how the leds come out yall led people are giving a new meaning to bio cubes

let me know how that other tank comes out

[Gseclipse02]

hey mike that's not cool i think he got what the others said if he chooses to do what they say that's his choice but talking to people like this is what makes other new people not post

[Double-O-Zilch]

I'm dosing Reef BioFuel. "Bioavailable carbon source for promoting rapid, natural phosphate and nitrate reduction in all marine and reef aquaria". I'm just using it to help with the new bio load and it's supposed to be good for the zoas too. This came recommended by Gabe. So far so good. All my fish are eating and happy. If it starts looking bad, I have access to a 220 gallon tank and a 30 gallon tank RIGHT NEXT DOOR. These fish and other livestock will not suffer for long if at all. A bigger tank is in the works. If need be there is another tank going up a street over I could spread the load to. It's funny how when I ask for help I get a debate or no answer at all. Everyone sure is quick to tell me what not to do and that I screwed up though. You're right Jt. If I'm just gonna get brow beat, I'll quit posting. I have back up plans in place and I'm not a complete moron. I test for what I'm dosing. All my fish are tiny. It's not like I'm throwing full grown fish in there. Everyone likes to get on their high horse around this place. I got news for ya, the fish where doing just great in the ocean they were torn away from. Don't kid yourselves about that. They're just surviving in your tanks. Some better than others. Instead of watching them die in the stores, I'd like to think I'm doing my best to save a few. And I will. Least they're not waiting to die from ich or whatever else could kill them with new fish being pushed through all the time. If you have nothing to add to my thread other than what a bad guy I am, please save your time posting and don't!

[txg8gxp]

Don't let everyone get to you, and please dont stop posting. Everyone tends to stand up for what they believe in(which is a good thing). As long as you put in the research and do your best to keep everything happy and healthy, I think that is a great job. I do agree that these small tanks shouldn't have many fish. I have a small watchmen goby and two small chromis, but I do know that the chromis will only be a short term fish. They will have to be moved to my 45g before to long. Good luck and have fun, Stephen.

[Double-O-Zilch]

I just get frustrated because I'm getting more opinions than the help I need. I understand the idea of creating a small eco system and bringing together all the organisms to make that happen. I sarted with an already established tank, mature live rock from my brother in law as well as from the LFS, live sand as well. I keep up on checking parameters daily if not twice a day. Water changes as needed. My nitrates were just sarting to get to 40 before the fish and I've fought them down to 20 or lower and still fighting. Fish got full bellies, zoas, palys, and polyps are growing and gaining more color everyday. One of my shrimp, not sure which yet, has molted. So far everything is HAPPY. A bigger tank is coming soon. You guys do not know me and my current life situation. A bigger tank would already be going but I have to replace the car that was totaled first. Can't get to work and make money, I'm no good to the fish or my son. You guys need to quit betting up on newbys because I could see where you'd run them off. If you have that effect, you're no better than someone who doesn't take the time to try and learn because you've doomed their tank to failure. Think about what effect your statements could have, not just now, but long term. What about people trying to find info and coming accross my thread? You've probably scared them off from joining or posting and may not try to educate themselves further. Once again, a dead tank cause they're affraid to ask.

"Bro, your bio load is over the top. expect serious nitrates,serious algae,serious headaches. Why are you dosing? What are you dosing for? Don't dose(ever) unless your testing what your dosing for. Not trying to be an *** but you need to take a few steps back."

This is some what helpful. Giving me a heads up. The only missing is what to do when and if the problems arise. Until I see problems and unhappy fish, I'm gonna keep on trucking. Nothing more is going into the tank. I'm happy where it is at. Next on the menu is getting a bigger tank going and putting LEDs in the cube. I'm sure none of you know as much now as when you started. I'm just getting started and trying to gain knowledge. If you're not gonna add to it, post some where else. I'm sure someone, some where else doesn't care for it either. I'm glad I didn't spend my hard earned money joining this forum yet. I give and try to contribute to the forums I join. Even if it doesn't make me elite over others with "top secret access". I give back what I get out. So far I'm just getting my butt chewed. I get enough of that at work and in life in general. So quit ruining the experience for the new people and follow your own mottos. Running people off does no one any good. My spine is thick and I can take alot, but I will not stick around if this is all you have to offer.

[FireWater]

Seriously? Slow down and think about how much information you are getting. I have read through this thread twice and have seen numerous helpful items if you would just take the advice and quit being defensive. Everyone here is trying to help because we have all been there before. The advice of slow down, watch your bio-load, and buy quality test kits are all sound advice that you are choosing to look past. I personally think you are being irresponsible for not opening your eyes and accepting the information given - if you have truly researched then you would know you are overloaded and already have most of these questions answered. In a small aquarium any change in parameters is huge and can lead to further problems. That is what most folks have been trying to tell you. In the biocubes you need to watch the detritus buildup in the bottoms of all the chambers including the false floor in the middle (not sure if the BC8 has this as all I have had is the BC29) as these areas will add to your nitrate and water quality issues if you do not regularly clean them out.

My advice is to quit worrying about defending yourself for past decisions and start looking forward to how you will better yourself and the care of your tank that you have chosen to keep. If this post upsets you the same as all the others then I apologize in advance and sorry for ruining your experience.

[Double-O-Zilch]

You're not ruining my experience. All the info I received on modding and other items were good. The only thing left to do is knock out the first chamber floor. I plan on doing that this weekend when I do a water change, if needed. I bought a mechanical siphon pump at Home Depot for $2.50 last weekend. If it works as good as I think it will, I'm going to post it up for others to see. It has a long tube that would be pefect for removing detritus in the chambers. I had done that when I first started messing around in the back with a regular siphon and found it to be too big. And it was a smaller one. The thing that bothers me is everyone telling me to talk to the people at the stores. I do. Before I get anything I tell them what I already have, how big they are, and ask what their place in the tank would be. I.E. food and waste. Everyone I talk to about it, except here, says I'm doing fine. When I post on here looking for help, it's usually during the week when I'm working and don't have time to hang around the LFS waiting for my turn. I am going to pick up a better test kit. I must have missed them behind the counter at Gabe's and every where else I frequent is either sold out or they don't carry them. I asked my brother in law to come over tonight while I'm working and test everything with his master test kit and write down what he reads. I noticed the one post that really got me fired up is gone. I do appreciate everyone trying to help but understand that when the experts I'm supposed to seek advice from tell me it's OK and then I'm told I'm messing up on here, it gets old fast. The peppermint shrimp has completed his job of eating aptasia and will be going to a new home soon. The emerald crab did his job as well and the snails can take it from here. My bioload will be getting smaller here pretty soon. I have my lights on a timer for 12hrs. I have not had an outbreak of algae yet. I plan on dropping the lighting down to 10hrs. I was just trying to help the softies get stable and happy which they seem to be. I apologize to everyone that has helped and hope you will continue to do so.

[corruption]

You're still missing a major point here, man... No one is saying to ask at the stores before purchases. These, honestly, are the last people you want to talk about your purchases with -- they want to make a sale. Some are more scrupulous than others, but at the end of the day sale = livelihood. In this hobby, you HAVE to do your own research -- because even with the best of intentions, you won't necessarily be given correct information. No one is trying to brow beat you, nor are they trying to discourage you from the hobby -- in fact, quite the opposite. The whole point everyone is trying to make, is most of us have made these exact same missteps, and we're trying to help you not get to a point of frustration and wanting to just give it up. We know it can get there, cuz most of us have considered it.

Mike -- I gotta agree with everyone else here, that was beyond what is necessary, and honestly, quite rude. You know I think you're a great guy -- but theres a point where crassness gets excessive.. Telling someone that 'you can't believe their stupidity' after you state you've made the same mistakes in the past -- would you enjoy someone saying that they 'can't believe your stupidity' based on mistakes you made in the past? We're all human, and to err is, as we all know.... well, human :)

Double-o-Zilch -- in summary, please don't take things too defensively... a few exceptions aside, everyone here is just trying to help you get to the goal line with as little headache as possible. Sometimes the attitudes in this hobby can come off as elitist, unfortunately its the nature of the game when so much research is really a necessity for good success.

-Justin

[Double-O-Zilch]

Thank you Justin. I try to research everything I do no matter how small or what it pertains to. I'm just a knowledge sponge like that. I must admit that this hobby has alot more to it than I originally expected. What I am really seeking is: What to do to make my tank happy until a bigger one is set up? I understand I'm setting myself up for problems, but what do I do when they happen? Given what I've already done, is there more I can do? Not being able to get a test kit, when I'm thinking about it, has been stressing me out. I do beleive in supporting the local stores but you can always rely on the internet. My main goal this weekend is to obtain one and I'll post up the accurate numbers ASAP. Running all over town when you don't have a car, at the moment, and a hectic work schedule is just not possible. I'm not making excuses, but I am far from perfect. Very far!

[corruption]

Thank you Justin. I try to research everything I do no matter how small or what it pertains to. I'm just a knowledge sponge like that. I must admit that this hobby has alot more to it than I originally expected. What I am really seeking is: What to do to make my tank happy until a bigger one is set up? I understand I'm setting myself up for problems, but what do I do when they happen? Given what I've already done, is there more I can do? Not being able to get a test kit, when I'm thinking about it, has been stressing me out. I do beleive in supporting the local stores but you can always rely on the internet. My main goal this weekend is to obtain one and I'll post up the accurate numbers ASAP. Running all over town when you don't have a car, at the moment, and a hectic work schedule is just not possible. I'm not making excuses, but I am far from perfect. Very far!

Understandable on all counts -- I can't drive myself due to disability, so I understand completely. The internet IS always a very valid option for ordering test kits -- do consider AquaCave if you do this, as they are a site sponsor as well :D

As far as what else can be done -- just upkeep maintenance (and maybe double up on predicted maintenances -- 2 per week instead of 1, etc..) and keep up the research. You'll get where you want to go :)

-Justin

[txmaverickmh]

Dude, I deleted my posts because I felt bad and took back my statements, let me rest in peace...I just felt like much expert advice and attention was being given out to prevent our friend here from making common rookie mistakes, but they were not be received.

I wish you the best, and I am sorry for my over the top comments...Cheers!

Michael

NOW, lets drop all this nonsense, please stop threatening to stop posting because it is making people feel bad, scared or whatever, lets all hug one another, and help everyone new to this amazing hobby! The more active you are here on MAAST, online, visiting LFSs, and everywhere else you can touch the saltwater will only benefit you and expand your knowledge of caring for these amazing things!

Michael

[Double-O-Zilch]

I'm at the point where I'm taking in all I can, everything is new, and I'm learning where the good info is coming from. I believe what I'm being told till it backfires so maybe what the salesman is telling me may not be such a trustworthy source. I ask tons of questions and can't absorb everything, so some things I forget. I know everyone has the best intentions, maybe a little work on the delivery is in order. I'm sure one day when I know enough to help a newb, I'll get frustrated when they don't listen. I've experienced the same the with the RC forums. You get tired of saying the same thing over and over. Just keep in mind not everything will stick the first time. I won't fail for lack of trying. Now moving on. I don't have to work this weekend and later today I'm taking my physical and drug screen to become a direct employee of the company I've been working for. While I'm out running around I'll grab a good test kit if it's the last thing I do all day. Things are looking up!

[ErikH]

Newbies get raped at pet stores and by the time they find their way here... well, we all know. Be gentle, he's obviously here to enjoy our hobby. There's alot of nerves when starting up a tank, and it makes it worse when your good intentions are turned bad by people that you have turned to for advice. Alot of people are also not as proficient on the internet as alot of us are, and for some, this is the only site they visit regularly. The first and obvious reaction will be defensive, especially when alot of smileys are not included :)

:bighug: to all of you.

[Double-O-Zilch]

I went ahead and got a master test kit. What's another $120 when I got hundreds in it already. Also picked up some live copepods since running out of them with the wrasse and scooter both eating them was a concern. I will put up parameters as soon as I read through the directions and figure out what I'm doing.

[Europhyllia]

Yay Parker! :D
I think you'll find it much easier to optimize things now that you know what your parameters are.

[Double-O-Zilch]

The results are in! I was dosing phosphate so I believe that's why it's high. Also Ph is high and not sure why. Salinity is up there and usually it's lower. Maybe a new hydrometer is in order. I do have 5 gallons of reef water from AD on standby and going to do a water change tomorrow. The water was in the car and needs to warm up. Plus I could use a break.

Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite .1 ppm
Nitrate 5 ppm
Calcium 440 ppm
Phosphate .25 ppm
Iron 0 ppm
Alkalinity 160 ppm
Ph 8.3-8.5
Salinity 1.024

So is this a good report card or am I still grounded!?

[txmaverickmh]

I purchased a refractometer from Gabe's to measure my saltwater, it is a C-Scope, works excellent, and I paid like $49 for it....worth its weight in gold! I never could get accuracy with a hydrometer.

[Double-O-Zilch]

My brother in law has one and doesn't use it, maybe he'll sell it to me. I also forgot to mention the koralia nano is back on, been off for 2 weeks trying to get the shroom and ricordia to foot. Used a torn fish net over the cup and flow is back! Started to get a little bit of red cyano, never spread but don't want it to either.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Bump for input on parameters.

[FireWater]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

Try this to help you out a little.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Thanks for the link FireWater. Got a cup of coffee and a little time so I'm good for a read!

[FireWater]

It will take a while, but it has plenty of good info.

[Double-O-Zilch]

OK. All is well except phosphate. When some one told me to check what I'm dosing and was was checking nitrates alone, my phosphate ran high. Lesson learned. Doing a water change today and need to run by AD to pick up a ballast for moms BC so I might grab a phosphate pad too. I'll do tests later tonight after the water change to see what effect it had. That link is very informative and I need to read a few more times to really absorb it all. Thanks everyone!

[Europhyllia]

Be sure that the phosphate pad you get is iron oxide based instead of aluminum oxide if you have any leather corals

[Double-O-Zilch]

No leathers yet but good to know because mom has a rather large one in her cube.

[Still Learning]

So glad to see you doing your homework. One thing is for sure...there are lots of DIFFERENT ways to keep a saltwater tank. Make sure you find a system that works for your needs.

Got any picture updates?

[Double-O-Zilch]

Pics will be coming soon. Just got a 29BC so maybe later I'll take pics of both.

[Mr.Schertz]

OK. All is well except phosphate.When someone told me to check what I'm dosing for and was was checking nitrates alone, my phosphate ran high. Lesson learned. Doing a water change today and need to run by AD to pick up a ballast for moms BC so I might grab a phosphate pad too. I'll do tests later tonight after the water change to see what effect it had. That link is very informative and I need to read a few more times to really absorb it all. Thanks everyone!
:applause:

[Double-O-Zilch]

I figured you'd like that! Learning every day and still a ways to go.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Well my phosphate is still at .25 ppm. Didn't get a pad, got kalkwasser instead but need to do my research before messing with it. I was told that's expert level stuff and pride aside, I'm no expert. Ph is about 8.3. Salinity is around 1.021. I did about a 3 gallon water change and according to the books with the test kit, less than 1 ppm of phosphate is good but the link on the previous page say less than .003 ppm. Hmm. Also I noticed my feather duster seems to have gotten a haircut. Would the wrasse be nipping at it or did he wear down against the rocks? I'm moved him away from the rocks in case that was the cause.

[FireWater]

Careful on adding extra stuff. Frequent water changes should take of your parameters well enough w/out dosing extras. Just keep testing. What do you have as far as coral that is using up elements?

As for the featherduster - it could have been either of the things you mentioned.

[Still Learning]

Hmm. Also I noticed my feather duster seems to have gotten a haircut. Would the wrasse be nipping at it or did he wear down against the rocks?

I would put money down that it was a fish rather than a rock. Those things are fun to play with....they go in and out....I am sure it is amusing!!

[Double-O-Zilch]

I guess I'll have to keep the wrasse and feather duster in separate tanks when I get the 29 up and running. As far as corals go, a lot of zoas, polyps, and a few LPSs. Candy canes, 2 small heads, euphyllia glabrescens (http://directsealife.com/shop/index.php?cPath=81_1201_965&osCsid=41lse3jklpq3v0b17f1jk38hd3), one small head, and dendro, one small head. Full name on euphyllia is a guess after an image search. Nothing to really deplete my calcium yet, I think, it stays at 440 ppm. I was told the kalkwasser was a good way to drop phosphates and the calcium would increase growth, if done right, in all corals. It came with a great deal of caution so I have yet to even mess with it as I'd like to learn more about it. From what I remember it binds to phosphate and locks it up so bad algae can't make use of it. Here's some links to it. Second link is more informative, first is the product.

* After reading the second, I see no mention of binding with phosphate. Guess I was suckered again!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4765

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/saltwater/metelsky_kalkwasser.html

[Double-O-Zilch]

I think the warning about keeping two gobies in the tank has come to fruition. The watchman has been M.I.A. for the second day in a row. I found the wrasse in the back yesterday morning after getting home from work. Mister orange spots is turning out to be quite the turd. Funny thing is he doesn't even make the scooter bat a fin. I have yet to find a carcass or any evidence he's died. Could he be in hiding? I've looked over the rocks, under the rocks and even behind the rocks with no luck. I really hate to think he's gone, the pistol shrimp lives and I was hoping they'd pair up.

[Big_Pun]

check the back chambers of the tank look at the very bottom of the first and third, also if you have a good clean up crew (ie bristle worms) its long gone

[Double-O-Zilch]

My clean up crew is the best! The emerald crab makes short work of everything. I looked over the back chambers real good and no luck. I'm going to do a fuge light tonight and move a few rocks so maybe I'll see something. I also checked for parameters to pick up but no sign of death on them. I have no idea cause it happened while I was working.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Still cruising along and learning as I go. Currently reading a book on marine aquariums and feeling even dumber now. I apologize to all I may have offended or blatantly ignored in the beginning. The goby is still MIA. Absolutely no sign of him at all. Looked every where. It's rather perplexing to me. I have however got a visual confirmation on the pistol shrimp, he's still in there for sure! Tonight I finally did my fuge light, enjoy.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0612.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0613.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0614.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0615.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0617.jpg

I will do a full DIY write up when I do it to the 29. Some steps I did weren't necessary and a cooling fan may not be needed. I work nights so the light from the back of the tank won't bother me but I'll figure it out by the next one.

[txg8gxp]

Nice build, looks good.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Hey Steve, an EFlite CX charger is perfect for 12v cooling fans. ;)

[corruption]

Thanks for that! I've been looking for a way to replace the powerhouse for the fans on my BioCube!

That fuge light looks great -- can't wait to see the walk thru.. may have to copy it for myself :D

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

I hope you mean the eflite cx2 chargers power supply right. I see no problem with that at all. It is simple a 12v 1.3a(I believe) power supply. Sound like a good way to use up some parts laying around. Good call..




Hey Steve, an EFlite CX charger is perfect for 12v cooling fans. ;)

[txg8gxp]

I'm still useing the stock transformer on mine.. but my stuff is still new, I could see having to replace it one day.

[Double-O-Zilch]

I was gonna tie it in to the stock board but, laziness leads to creativeness! Besides, soon I'll have the 29 running and I'd like to run both fans off their own supply and timed offset from the main lights. And yeah, the CX2. Figured you'd know what I meant. Shooting to get the 29 running this weekend. Just got a lot on my plate lately. 74 hrs last week and not sure how this week is gonna turn out yet. Still trying to finalize the deal with the insurance company and get a check so I can buy a car this weekend. Still need to get a head x-ray. Really I just want to play with my tanks! Promise the DIY walkthough will be coming soon Justin. With parts, prices, and locations.

[corruption]

Score -- found one for about half the price, that is spec-wise, identical:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-12151/12VDC-1.5A-SWITCHING-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html

..I will be getting one of these. :)

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

A little better price... 1.2 versus 1.5 $4.95
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=17563+PD

[txg8gxp]

Oyea, that one is center negative so you would need to rewire the hood.

[corruption]

My goal is to essentially gut the hood of original hardware -- I don't use the moonlights, because I'm never here when the lights are off... So a bit of rewiring is no biggie :)

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

If you want to get rid of as much factory stuff as possible, you can throw everything away and run 2 12v fans in series off of the 24v power supply for the drivers. That would be one less power supply, so if you now wanted to run a 24v PS for each BuckPuck you can have dawn/dusk. Just an idea.

[corruption]

My plan on dawn/dusk was the microcontroller config I had mentioned before -- a good friend and I are working on a real basic (at least at the start) PIC-based microcontroller application/codebase to provide PWM ramp-up and ramp-down on a timed basis... Probably won't need to break my circuits away from the single power supply at the moment.. Though, I should look at the draw of my fans -- I can support about 650 more mA via the current supply -- running them all off one unit would definitely be cleaner..

-Justin

[corruption]

Hmm... my fans are a .25a draw -- I might be cutting it close if wire em all in series... would put me at about 2.5a max draw across the entire power supply, assuming I had my Cree's at full intensity (in reality, I run em at about 55-60%..) -- max output of the power supply is 2.65a..

I may try it out, but I'm leery about killing my crees :)

-Justin

[txg8gxp]

The drivers will protect against lower input voltage caused by amperage load, but 2.6 is cutting it. I have a 6.5a.

[corruption]

Agreed -- for another $10 or so max, I can have the whole thing on independent circuits, functioning as I desire... May as well just do it right :)

-Justin

[Double-O-Zilch]

Thought I was going to have to report that I lost the wrasse, turns out he was visiting the watchman goby that's been missing for a while in the back. The min/max window has a plastic cover that is perfect for these guys to hide behind. Still having trouble getting the goby out, but, the emerald crab is no longer suspect #1! Almost forgot to mention, the fuge light works awesome! The macro is growing like crazy and the cooling fan is defiantly a must.

[txg8gxp]

Thats good news....sounds like you need one of these.http://shop.mediabaskets.com/BioCube-14-Fish-Saver-Guard-BC14FS.htm

[Double-O-Zilch]

Oh yeah Steve, gettin' one for both the 14 and the 29. Thought the watchman may have been in trouble but I got him out and both he and the wrasse are eating! So happy to know the watchman is still around. Gives me renewed vigor to get the 29 running this weekend. I just can't believe he hid so well I never saw him. I cleaned the detritus out, did the fuge light, he's a good hider!

[Double-O-Zilch]

Just tested the parameters and everything is great! Nitrates are the lowest they've ever been. Think that new fuge light on the macro did the trick. Not bad for an over stocked tank too, I might add. ;)

[Double-O-Zilch]

The 29 will be running by saturday so the bioload will be split up as soon as the cycling is through. Soon the gobies will each have their own tank. The watchman still likes hanging out in the back by the pump. Got an idea for a fish saver the will save me $30 between the two BCs. Just want to wait till the shrimp goby moves out, he bullies the watchman.

[Double-O-Zilch]

Here's a pic of the nudibranch cruising around and a FTS.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0632.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z174/parkermarsh/100_0633.jpg