Seahorses

[mabel_photo6]

Where can I find 'em?
I'm looking into Hippocampus Erectus (Black Seahorses).
I'm reading and such and wondering if it would be a good idea to put a pair or two in my BioCube.
That tank is SUPPOSED to go down as soon as my 100 gallon is ready.
Buuuuuuuuuut Seahorses are just so dang cute!

Just doing a bit of early reading and research.
This BioCube is staying at least 6 months 'cause all my coral are in there.
I'll be transferring those coral into my 100 gallon.

If I decide to make it a Seahorse tank, what corals are safe to keep in there?
I know I'll have to buy some decorations to help hang on to things.
Also, my friend scared me a bit 'cause she said she had a pair and lasted her about 4 weeks then died. She said they were eating and from one day to the next she lost them.
I might end up buying them from separate places to higher my chances of having most or all survive.

Any advice?

[mabel_photo6]

P.S. Also to higher my chances of them surviving is buying tank raised. So that's a big key I'm looking for.

[Jordan N.]

I dont really know anything about seahorse care, but i do remember that GCR was about to start breeding them. probably a pretty good source of fish



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[mabel_photo6]

Oh yeah, in Corpus right?

I remember now why my friend's seahorses died... I recall another friend calling her stupid 'cause she added them to a tank less than a month old. They might have died during the cycle while a spike happened of some sort.

[justahobby]

Seahorses are not only sensitive to the water chemistry but the setup they have. It's really hard to keep a water current in a small tank that won't bang the horses into the glass/ acrylic every couple of minutes. They will do best in a larger tank with tricklling water instead of powerheads/ return pumps.

[mabel_photo6]

Hmm well the current can be lowered... right now it's got current from the return and I have a Koralia #1 in there.

If I got rid of the Koralia and just had the current from the return, would it still be too much current??
With say the return pointing toward the glass.
I'm sure there has to be a way.
Texas Tropical & Marine has some seahorses in a BioCube 14 and they seem to be doing great and the current isn't so bad.

[mabel_photo6]

LOL It censored ...
With say the return pointing toward the g l a s s

[Jordan N.]

Oh yeah, in Corpus right?

Yeah, they're located in Corpus. I actually just walked out of the store, they had two breeding pairs in there; Both looked fat and healthy. It didnt look like they had bred yet but I'm sure they will.

(I must sound like a salesmen.....)



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[mabel_photo6]

lol Well I think the ones he has grow a tad too big for my BioCube.
I was looking for something smaller.
The dwarf seahorses I think are a little too small.
So I ended up thinking about the erectus ones.
Somewhere around 5 - 7 inches. I keep reading I could have a pair or two.
The only other fish that will be in there is a firefish and green clown goby.
From what I read, that should be fine to keep together.

Currently in the tank are those two plus a black and white ocellaris but she'll be moved to my 100 gallon and my mandarin that will later also be moved to my 100.

The coral that concerns me is my frogspawn and torch coral.
Will they sting or irritate the seahorses?
Will the seahorses irritate my finger leather coral?
The rest is just mushrooms, pulsing xenia, zoas, and green star polyps.

[mabel_photo6]

My concerns were correct... I finally found a reading that I should take caution with LPS corals like my frogspawn and my torch coral. It says seahorses do well with most soft corals.

Now I gotta find out if they can irritate finger leather coral since I know they'll probably try to latch on to them.

I guess I wasn't looking well enough. lol I spent a few hours last night looking for info and found a rather good amount.
If I looked harder, I wouldn't have bothered to post anything 'cause I know I hate when people post questions when they could easily find it on google, magazines, articles, and/or books.

Well, now I'm just hoping for someone that has experience with seahorses that could give me advice.

[phippsj]

Aquarium Designs had them the last time I was in there (cute little black ones).

[justahobby]

I kept seahorses in a biocube 14 and tried several routes in diverting the current without success. They always drifted up and into the line of fire from the return pump and *SMACK* into the acrylic. I tried running pvc down to the bottom of the tank with lots of holes drilled to disperse the current. That kept them from window surfing but still pushed them around more than I liked.

A smaller than stock pump on a 29g may be a different story. You could try looking on reefcentral for others that have attempted seahorses in a 29. They have a seahorse specific forum w/ a larger audience than us. It would be great if you post your findings here for future reference.

Algae and mangroves work great for a seahorse tank. They aren't as picky about current (as coral) and will help reduce the nutrients while providing hitching posts. Nutrient control can be an issue since there's alot of wasted food when feeding slow eaters. Have you read up on making a trough w/ hitching post for feedings? It's a great way to keep the uneaten food contained.

I never looked into mixing coral other than shrooms and gorgonias so I can't be much help there.

[Europhyllia]

Not sure if this is a good idea but whenever I dream of my future seahorse tank I envision it plumbed into the big tank (share a sump) because I figure that would help with stabilizing water parameters/quality. I think a 30 gallon hexagon would be really nice for that. No experience though. Sorry!

[justahobby]

FWIW Seahorses are slightly prone to developing gas bubble disease, which is a gas bubble trapped under their skin. In your research you'll find it's not recommended to use a protein skimmer in conjunction with your seahorse tank due to the increased chances of your ponies getting the "disease".

[snfkotara]

Pacific East Aquaculture has seahorse pairs and seem to really healthy I just received my pair and yes they are so cute and already eating PE.

[Europhyllia]

Justin that's good info -no seahorses for me!

[Europhyllia]

Pacific East Aquaculture has seahorse pairs and seem to really healthy I just received my pair and yes they are so cute and already eating PE.

lol. I can see your downsizing is going really well! :applause:

[justahobby]

I learned the hard way when I added a seahorse to my fuge. She was a beautiful bright yellow kellogg. I was thrilled w/ the perfect water flow and very peaceful environment. She went over the divider a couple times and into the middle chamber where I had strong current. The stress caused flesh eating disease. I treated her with iodine and formaldehyde twice daily. Just when we almost had it beaten, the gas bubble got the best of her. The flesh eating bacteria will also cause the gas bubbles, but the skimmer didn't help.

I hate for people to have unanswered questions when it might prevent someone from reliving my past mistakes. That's why I love getting on here an answering questions.

I also have ScopiNO to thank for getting me as far as I did with treating her. He was at B&B when I was looking for meds and started answering questions for me. At the time, I didn't even know who he was.... a great guy!

[snfkotara]

lol Karin I put them in the little BIO and well I was told the other day I could keep the rest of my tanks. Laugh on that one but that all I had to hear. I still have a empty 100 gal. tank and a half full Utopia tank, but I have no R/O machine and I'm not going out and buying 150 gals. of water. But I love seahorse and hope this time I will succeed.

[snfkotara]

That is good info Justin.

[justahobby]

lol Karin I put them in the little BIO and well I was told the other day I could keep the rest of my tanks. Laugh on that one but that all I had to hear.


That is good info Justin.


Thank you Karin and Sherry.

Sherry, That's great news. I know how much the tanks mean to you. :)

[txmaverickmh]

As for the seahorses at GCR, they are breeding now, although the male let the last batch go prematurely (common for first-timers), but they are fat and happy so I see babies on the horizon.

I have been very successful at keeping seahorses (see my seahorse tank thread in nano tanks). I have a 14 gal. Biocube that I filled with live sand, LR, and some mangrove shoots. In the back of the biocube, I have the stock skimmer (doesnt do much, but it is worth the money), I have filter floss, live rock rubble and a heater.

I purchased H. Fuscus from seahorsesource.com and I highly recommend Abby and Dan Underwood, the owners, as they are so informative, care so much about their ponies, and ORA referred me to them. I feed my seahorses frozen mini-mysis twice a day, and leave the powered compact lights on from 1-8pm, and the temperture stays around 76 degrees. They are very happy, always swimming around and madly in love! haha

As for the flow, I bought one of the lockline valves that you can twist to shut off or lower flow and attached it to the stock lockline in the biocube. Now, I call it my seahorse tank and ACAN garden because I have 5 different species of Acans thriving in there. And, I also put two dracula gobies that Jason from Aquarium Designs was able to find for me.

If you always worry about failing, then what fun would it be to just keep waiting for some disappointment. My thought is, if you love it, then learn it, know all the pros and cons, and then DO IT!

Karin, with your dedication and knowledge, along with your mommy touch and passion, there is no doubt you could do a seahorse tank!

Michael

[Europhyllia]

Karin, with your dedication and knowledge, along with your mommy touch and passion, there is no doubt you could do a seahorse tank!
Michael
Awww. Thanks Michael. I'll take a peak at the seahorse forum to learn more about the skimmer issue. With my smaller fuge I sometimes did get micro bubbles from the skimmer but with my new 4ft sump with the triple baffles Ace made me I haven't seen any tiny bubbles in my DT at all - even when the skimmer goes a little nuts.
I'd have to see if the problem is just with skimmer micro bubbles or with something less visible. I know I wouldn't want to do water changes all the time - once a week on the big tank is enough for me...

[mabel_photo6]

Nice... this good, really good.
I might look into that lockline valve that Michael mentioned.
My BioCube 29 comes with a tiny skimmer so if it's really bad for the seahorse, it's not a big deal to remove it.
There isn't any mirco bubbles either that are produced by that skimmer.

I do intend on making it seahorse friendly if I decide to go that route.
I'm trying to learn about it as much as I can because it's something I would really love to see my tank turn into.
I do want to buy gorgonians later on and perhaps other things that help them hold on.

If I hear word of caution, I'll listen and I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
I really want to give this a shot and I have plenty of time to learn.
I have coral that aren't safe for seahorses but I have to wait months before moving them to my 100.
So until then, I have time to read.

This really helps a lot and I hope it clears things up for others who've been wanting to try seahorses but shy away from it.
I really appreciate the input. :)

[Daniel]

Seahorse,

They are very difficult to keep. They are disease prone and you must have a wide range of medications and equipment to treat them as soon as they show signs. You will spend alot of time and expense worrying about feeding them, and if you do get mysis trained ponies you will need to make sure you keep your water quality up since frozen mysis are dirty. My male died of gas bubble disease, which can only be treated with a medication from a vet and most vets are not willing to write a prescription without seeing the patient or won't write it because they don't know the proper treatment method. My female died of depression I think, she was eating up untill the day before we found her dead. You cannot keep any corals that have sweeping tentacles.

Only buy from a source you know that breeds them. seahorsesource.com is a good place and they are helpful.

Do not buy from a local store that does not know where they came from or that they are wild caught. Wild caught are even harder to keep then tank raised and come with more diseases that you must treat while in quarantine. Wild caught do not adapt well to captivity and you are more then likely to have them die on you.

Unless you have a ton of experience with marine tanks I would wait and put your money into a good reef tank and enjoy the diverse creatures a reef tank can have and live for a very long time.

[txmaverickmh]

Mabel,

I have to disagree with so much risk in keeping seahorses as long as you learn alot and buy from the right source. I own ZERO medications and I have had nothing but great success in keeping my pair of H. Fuscus, but one of my dear friends is Brad, Marine PhD. over at Gulf Coast Reef, where we are currently breeding them and he has done lots of academia research. But, my are virtually maintenance free, I feed frozen mysis, sometimes I rinse them and sometimes I dont. I do weekly 5gal water changes in a 14gal biocube so that helps alot.

Go to seahorsesource.com and call Dan and Abby and talk to them. They are two of the most reputable, sincere, approachable and best mentors in the country, and they were incredible to me.

Also, call me! I would love to talk further to you about it offline. Again, I do agree with Daniel, that there is SOOO much that plays into the type of seahorse you buy and where you buy it from, Seahorsesource.com is the best place IMO. You will find with keeping seahorses and pretty much everything else, some people's cups are half-full and some half-empty.

Michael Hensley
361-920-1465

[Still Learning]

Mabel, I love seahorses and I highly recommend them. There is a lot of info out there (one of my fav sites is seahorse.org). Sometimes it is hard to determine what is truth and what is not, but remember everything can be verified.

A biocube would be a great home for some h. erectus. I think you might have an issue with corals only because of the food the seahorses like and what corals don't like. Lots of shrimp = high amounts of protein.

Mike is right....the Underwoods are leading experts in the field of seahorses. There is also a place in Hawaii but they are quite proud of their stock (as they should be...beautiful). You can always ask your LFS to order some from ORA which is another very reliable source. Make sure when you are purchasing tr/cb seahorses that you understand their blood line. tr/cb also make for easy feeding since most eat frozen foods!! Gotta love that!

As far as frogspawn, the sting is so powerful it can paralyze the horses. As far as flow, I have seen seahorses surfing in high current. My current set up has a XP3 on it and they will surf in it. There are lots of other places in the tank where there is less flow.

Lots of hitching places!!! It is fun to make them. I have used airline tubing, dead corals (you know we have all had them...I just saved the skeleton), sea fans, live rock, and of course they will find each other.

[justahobby]

Lockline is great option if you are comfortable with it. I will admit I am very picky about the precise water flow for seahorses :)

I'm not going to pretend like I have all the answers to keeping seahorses. I am only trying to inform you of what isn't readily known and possible risks, so you aren't scrambling like I did IF the time comes where you run into problems. It's great when you get answers from all fields ("yes its doable", "be careful", "I had horrible success") so you know what to expect. But they should still be approached with great care and consideration.

Here's some food for thought:
It's widely known that running protein skimmers tend to increase gas saturation far beyond that of a natural enviroment. Seahorsesource.com has a link to this website that I have used in the past.



http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/gbd/gbd.shtml

"EGBD is likely the result of an error in the hydration of carbon dioxide to carbonic acid by the enzyme carbonic anhydrase, gas super-saturation in their environment, or a bacterial infection in which CO2, released by the bacteria, is trapped in the skin."

You can read the other articles here:
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/library/library.shtml

Take warning to anyone that says "it's easy". I'm sure you, txmav has had a rate of success, but information should be divulged besides "it's hands free". Sorry if my disagreement offends you in some way. :)

[Europhyllia]

That's interesting but I don't think I fully understand. Is it correct to assume that it is specifically the CO2 that the skimmer injects (along with O2) that is the problem?

[justahobby]

Don't look too deep Karin :p There isn't one specific cause that is guaranteed to cause EGBD. It's that list that has been commonly associated to greater risk. It's like saying stressed fish get ich. Or poor nutrition... It could very well be the one factor that caused it or a combination of variables.

There was a poll of (I believe) reefcentral regarding EGBD. The vast majority of people that experienced EGBD in their seahorses had a skimmer on their tank or used a skimmer on their display which connected to their seahorse tank.

If I rem. correctly males were at a higher risk due to their pouch.

[Europhyllia]

I am just asking because I'm looking for a loophole! lol. I run my skimmer on a CO2 scrubber (the air that enters my skimmer has a lot of the CO2 cleaned out of it)

[greatwhite@AlamoAquatics]

mabel its really not that hard to keep ponies , i bred them for a year. and i had both wild caught and tank raised and they all lived . i even bred a wild caught with a tank raised.. my wild caught had internal gas bubble and i would insert the back end of a sewing needle into his pouch then pushed the gas out .. he kept on getting it till my girlfriend bought me a female , then he turned yellow and they were having babies every month, at least a thousand , seahorses are really cool fish , just keep your system simple and do small weekly water changes and everything should be alright.. i kept 3 pairs in a 30 gal hex, with different macro algae(dragons breath,halamida, money plant , red calurpa) and 3 different clown gobies, and a good cleanup crew.. i usually carry tank raised sea horses and can get erectus, kellogi, ingens.... seahorse source is a good place to purchase them, next year ill be selling seahorses from there a lil excited bout that ... call me if you have any other questions.. other than that just keep reading , good luck

[mabel_photo6]

Lol Nice, I really do appreciate the feedback.
I swear, in the freshwater hobby, people will rip you apart if you ask a question.
I find it almost unfair... but in the saltwater hobby, people seriously are more forgiving.
People shouldn't be punished to have an idea and look into it.

I do intend on getting seahorses from someone who's weaned them off live food.
As I've mentioned, that's something I'll really be looking for... also them being tank bred.
I will look into controlling that flow.
Also, decorations will be on my mind.

As far as corals, I did read about the frogspawn and other corals that aren't safe.
I figured they weren't safe but like I said, they'll be moved to my 100 gallon in about 6 months. :)
I'll be looking into those websites tomorrow or when I get the chance.
This holiday season really gets me running back and forth. lol
So thank you guys for the advice and websites.

Michael, thanks for the advice... I'll probably be calling you soon.
I just picked the H. Erectus because it seemed easier to keep from what I read.
If any one has other suggestions as to what else to consider, please do tell.
Reading a little about the H. Erectus allowed me to choose it because of it's size and hardiness.
I'd be willing to look at other types. The problem with a few articles I read was that they don't say if the seahorse is protected, rare, expensive, or common.
I'll eventually find out while I read those websites given.

About the skimmer... I'm taking it out.
It's little but I suppose it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

[mabel_photo6]

BTW, where can I get macro algae?
All I see everywhere is Chaeto.
I've been wanting to get something different for my 'fuge under my 100 gallon tank.
And now that I'm looking into seahorses, I would love some plants and such for my BioCube.
But I never see them... ever. Perhaps I'm blind?

[txmaverickmh]

Seahorsesource.com can send you some macro like chaluerpa or more cool, mangrove shoots, but you can get that stuff anywhere like our Petco in Corpus sells water plants

mh

[Richard]

You'll find alot of debate on the cause of EGBD. I always used a skimmer on my seahorse tanks with no problem and I think if you go over to seahorse.org you'll find that most of them use skimmers also.

In any event, erectus get pretty large and probably won't be a great choice for biocube. Also they are more prone to bacterial infections at higher temps so most people recommend that you keep the temp in the low 70's for them. Difficult to do on a biocube. They have some threads on recommendations for using biocube on seahorse.org.

[mabel_photo6]

It's late :( and I'm looking around seahorsesorce.com and seahorse.org but I'm looking pretty quickly through it.
I like the H. Erectus but if there's a seahorse smaller, I'd look into it.
Since I'm new and I have a 29 gallon BioCube, I'm still looking for a hardy seahorse.
Something that is hardy and fits in my 29 gallon.
I read some of the other smaller types need live food.
I suppose I could provide live brine shrimp but won't they be too small for them to eat as adults?

I can't get adult brine shrimp here.
I have this thing I bought a few months back just because I figured it would come in handy some day.
It's called ummm Tom Continuous hatch'nfeeder brine shrimp corral.

But I don't know, I'm still looking.
Something small enough so that I can put 3 - 5 seahorses and one easy to feed.
Perhaps H. Fuscus? H. Barbouri? H. Kuda?
It's too late to function... I'm goin' to bed!

[Daniel]

If you have been reading the sites you will know that temperature is an important part in keeping seahorses. I tried everything to keep it stable and bought a chiller because it was to much work trying to use fans and ice. If you do not have stable temp that is below 76F during a normal day you will need a chiller. The lower the temp the less likely you will get some bacterial diseases.

Brine shrimp are dirty so keep that in mind. Also in my opinion a skimmer is a must. Water quality and seahorses go hand in hand. They do not handle spikes in ammonia or nitrates very well.

3-5 in a 29 biocube is a lot of bio load. Have you considered dwarf seahorses. My wife said if I took up ponies again that is what she would want. They are pretty cute and you can put more then a handful in it.

The thing with the biocube is not its volume its that they are not that tall. That's why those that use 29 gallon tanks for erectus and other large ponies use tall tanks. Ponies when courting will swim up and down the column so they need a taller tank.

Good Luck,

Daniel

[mabel_photo6]

Interesting, well yeah my tank is short since it's a cube... but getting those dwarf seahorses... don't they have to eat live foods? The only time I've had to hatch brine shrimp on a daily basis was when my freshwater angel had "wigglers" and I saved a few to see if I could raise them. Out of 11, I have 2 pretty big ones now. They grew the size of a half dollar and still growing! lol

My tank actually stays at a constant 78 right now but because of all my coral that's in it right now. As a general, I always read people keep their tanks between 77 - 80. I'm gonna keep reading though.

I'll be driving up to S.A. soon again and my boyfriend and I might want to stop by Borders to see what books we can find. Is there a book on seahorses anyone suggests? I'm already getting a few books on marine fish in general on christmas. lol I helped my boyfriend pick out the books. :)

[Still Learning]

H. Reidi is also a beautiful seahorse and about the size of the H. Erectus.

I would stay away from anything that required live foods. Such a pain!

Know where your seahorses are coming from. There are warm water and cold water seahorses. The warm water's don't need a chiller.

Sorry, I can't help you with the books....I mostly just read internet stuff.

[marcusgonzales210]

I have some Caulerpa nummularia you can have whenever you're in town again. It's at my house so you can see my saltwater tank. It's coming along nicely.

[ErikH]

www.seahorse.org

Wealths and wealths of info on their site if you search it. Same as here, people just don't search. :)

[Europhyllia]

Same as here, people just don't search. :)
We enjoy the personal attention ;)

[mabel_photo6]

Bummer... I use a mac and I have the new Snow Leopard installed... don't know if there's something I can download to fix the bug but I can't see pdf files. :( I've just been looking through what isn't pdf.

I dig that seahorse.org there's a lot of info there that has helped me understand but some stuff is in pdf format so I can't see it. I think I can see it if I download it. I'm going to give that a try.

Maybe Marcus... my boyfriend and I might go up soon. I'll probably post when I'm going up again. Perhaps after the holidays, we might go up to shop a little.

[txmaverickmh]

Mabel,

Call Abby at Seahorsesource.com and let her walk you through everything like she did me, such a fine lady and her husband and her wrote alot of the articles on seahorse.org. They are leading experts on seahorses and I would challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

Abby is the one who guided me to the H. Fuscus for the exact reason that I had a 14g Biocube, needed small, hardy horses that ate frozen food. All of their seahorses eat frozen food, are well bred and kept in pristine conditions, and I could go on all day long about their customer service.

DO NOT get dwarf seahorses, although they are small and you could put a dozen in your tank, their mouths are small and they ONLY EAT live foods which is too much of a hassle. H. Fuscus are lovely, beautiful, small (only 4-6" full grown), mine are hardy and very happy in the Biocube. I do not have anything that really competes with them for food, I have 2 Dracula gobies in there, and my "Acan Garden" as I have 5 different acan colonies growing very nice under the PCs.

I feed twice a day, 1/2 cube of Hikari Frozen Mysis (recommended and used by Abby at seahorsesource.com), but I have also fed them brine shrimp as well. My temperture stays around 77-78 degrees at all times, and my lights are on from 1pm until 8pm.

I do clean the mysis shrimp sometimes since they are known to be dirty, but the hikari mysis shrimp are very nice in quality and cleanliness.

I have caught live ghost shrimp on 2 occasions, but many were actually too big for the seahorses to eat, and ended up being tankmates until I took them out.

YOU CAN DO IT, I PROMISE!!!! But, do your research, carefully pick a species, CALL ABBY, and get it on!

Michael

[jc]

I have a Solana tank with H. reidi in it. The way I keep the temps low is to monitor the room temp. Since I keep my house close to 74 the tank hovers around 75. I also switched the stock pump to a maxi-600 for lower watts. I've read about gas bubble disease but I decided to use my sapphire skimmer in order to keep the water quality higher. If you really want to keep seahorses you will do fine. I also recommend seahorsesource.com It is where I got both pairs of my horses. The only negative I can think of is that seahorses are not very active. Lately, I would say they are pretty boring. I've been considering selling mine.

[txmaverickmh]

I would have to second jc on the fact that seahorses are not very entertaining, just not much action besides when they eat. But, then again, coral isnt very exciting either...it is more the thrill of creating the biotope and watching them thrive. Also, my dracula gobies are entertaining which is another reason they were a nice add to the tank.

Michael

[mabel_photo6]

lol Yeah I've thought of that but then like Michael, I think of coral. They don't do much either but I love the look of them being in this little mini world of mine. :) Besides, this BioCube was actually going to be taken down and sold but I figured since I had worked so long on it to get it this far, I almost feel horrible for tearing it down.

I feel the same about Dwarf Seahorses... I don't want them because of the live food issue. I'll probably end up talking to Abby or Dan at seahorsesourse.com and perhaps ordering from them. How much does shipping usually cost? Or maybe I can just buy them from you or somewhere in S.A. If I can find them near, I shall drive to them. Less traveling for the horses.

I can't put any seahorses in the BioCube until around May?
Because I need to move out my frogspawn and torch coral out of there.
The 100 gallon needs to be ready though and I want to wait at least 6 months before moving them over.

[jc]

Well, If I remember correctly shipping was about $60 for two horses. One thing that does liven them up some is macro algae they can hitch to. They lazily scoot around looking at the ground.

[justahobby]

YOU CAN DO IT, I PROMISE!!!! But, do your research, carefully pick a species, ..
Michael

Great advice!


Sorry i haven't been following this thread very well and very tired right now. Tied up w/ last minuted shopping and working as much as possible. I have a few non invasive macros you are more than welcome to try out whenever you are ready. :thumbs_up:

[mabel_photo6]

Sweet, I usually post when I'm making a drive up to S.A.
I want to go after the whole holiday rush.

Dang, 60 bucks for shipping.
That's where it'll not only burn a hole through my wallet, it'll set my purse on fire! lol
I do realize that overnight shipping is expensive.
Luckily, I have time to see what my options are as far as where I can get my horses from.
Like I've mentioned, I would REALLY love to get them from a driving distance.
Onward with the research! :)