LED lighting

[txg8gxp]

Any of you guys running an all led lighting system? These DIY builds seem to becomeing quite popular. Thanks, stephen.

[wesheltonj]

Yes, I am. AquaIlumination fixture

[txg8gxp]

Cool, how long is your tank(48") and how many modules are you useing?

[corruption]

I'm heavily considering doing some DIY on a LED set for my BioCube 8, seems like it would be a fun project.. wesheltonj, how's the color definition? Are you using blue LED's for the actinic supplement too? Liking the color blends?

-Corruption

[ShAgMaN]

I'm running 5 of these panels in my 6ft. 150 gal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Aquarium-Lighting-Reef-Corals-Tank-Grow-Light-Panel_W0QQitemZ370297041013QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item56376c7075

It's not DIY but still cheap for LED's - and they work great on my deep tank. I called the vendor and she sold me each panel for 135 with free shipping. Only thing that sucks is you cant control blue's separately.

I added a moon light strip but it isn't very bright - need to get a better one.

[txg8gxp]

Cool deal, thanks for the link. That is almost worth buying and rewiring the whole panel for that price. That is cheaper than the led themselves. If they are cree's.

[wesheltonj]

My tank is 48" long and use 4 modules. Each modules has two rows of light that have 3 "lights" on each puck 2 white and 1 blue (they are Seouls, the new model are Crees, now more output then the Seouls.) The whites are on one channel and blues another. I can control the output of each color from 0 to 100%. With my controller, I have sun up/down, max output from 10AM to 2PM, thunderstorms on the weekends when I am home to watch, random clouds which dim the lights. I can also have moon phases, but currently to not.

I am hopeful, that when the controller interface for my Vortechs come out I will be able to control the water to the storms, etc.

[txg8gxp]

To cool, I want thunderstorms. What controller are you running?

[wesheltonj]

GHL

[txg8gxp]

Great looking units. You have any links were to purchase one? I found tons of info but did not find exact prices and no buy button.

[ErikH]

My tank is 48" long and use 4 modules. Each modules has two rows of light that have 3 "lights" on each puck 2 white and 1 blue (they are Seouls, the new model are Crees, now more output then the Seouls.) The whites are on one channel and blues another. I can control the output of each color from 0 to 100%. With my controller, I have sun up/down, max output from 10AM to 2PM, thunderstorms on the weekends when I am home to watch, random clouds which dim the lights. I can also have moon phases, but currently to not.

I am hopeful, that when the controller interface for my Vortechs come out I will be able to control the water to the storms, etc.

Man, I am jealous. Would you please, please post some videos of all of that coolness? I assume it's on a profilux, in fact, I think you are the one that always harps (like me) on how cool that controller is. I really want to see the dimming with the storms, and clouds passing. I LOVE seeing that at Ace's house.

[saltier]

They are kinda pricey!!!

[corruption]

You have to think of the price as a multi-tiered beast -- not just with these lights, but any lighting.... Your MH/T5 fixtures average 4-500 bucks for a 48" tank.... then replace the MH every 8 months, at 70 a pop... T5 every year to year and a half at 30 bucks a pop... and factor in total wattage used per day. LED's may be more expensive on the initial purchase, but you are going to use far less than 1/10th the total power draw of the other high-output options, and the bulbs have an expected lifetime of 5-10 years.... you start to come out pretty close to even pretty quickly, and in the long term, the LED is likely more efficient/cost effective... you just have to be sure to look at it in a non-short sighted way :)

Just to do a direct look at the math, lets assume 2x250w halides, and 4x54w T5's, over 5 years...

Fixture: 450
MH Bulbs: 10 x 70 = 700
T5 bulbs: 12 x 30 (4 bulbs, 3 replacements over 5 years) = 360

Just ignoring the power usage (which WILL be significant here), we're looking at 450 + 700 + 360 = $1510 over 5 years... probably a minimum of another $500 on top of that in power usage...

Once you look at the numbers involved, its easy to see how the efficiency is gained here -- and the prices on these ultra-intense power LED's WILL drop over the next few years, as they become more common and the manufacturing process gets perfected...

-Corruption

[ErikH]

LOL Justin I think he meant the controller :)

[corruption]

Well, the controller is one of the cheaper parts of the LED picture, in the long run -- I still stand by my above breakdown... I've been waiting for LED's to become viable light sources for ages, I'm just excited its finally coming true ;)

Plus, those AquaIllumination panels aren't exactly dirt cheap either... :D

-Corruption

[alton]

Has the power supply issue been resolved? I know in the Electrical Industry they are giving a 10 year warranty on the LED's, but only a two year warranty on the power supplies. I was wondering if power supplies were lasting longer for aquarium fixtures?

[Jarob]

I wonder if one of these would be good on a 14g biocube? I want more blue though, less white! How the colow on that shagman? What bulb color is it close to(12k, 14k, 20k..) I was planning on starting a DIY LED project soon, been folowing the forum on RC for a long time now and could complete it fairly easy I think. Only thing is I think I want a new tank now, so maybe a DIY tank with DIY lights? hmm

Jarob



I'm running 5 of these panels in my 6ft. 150 gal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Aquarium-Lighting-Reef-Corals-Tank-Grow-Light-Panel_W0QQitemZ370297041013QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item56376c7075

It's not DIY but still cheap for LED's - and they work great on my deep tank. I called the vendor and she sold me each panel for 135 with free shipping. Only thing that sucks is you cant control blue's separately.

I added a moon light strip but it isn't very bright - need to get a better one.

[wesheltonj]

Try here for GHL
http://www.progressivereef.com/profilux-controllers.php
http://www.ghl-direct.com/

Power supplies

I was going thru power supplies, like no tommorrow, but that problem was stopped when Aquailluniation came out the the 2nd gen unit and stopped trying to regulate the power "on-board" with the light. Now its just power into the units and no problem. The 3rd gen is now using one power supply (not sure how that going to work). Mine uses computer laptop power supplies.

[alton]

Sounds like good news on the power supplies. Oh yea if you are wondering 2 x 250W MH fixtures @$10 cents a KWH in ten years will run you $1,980 or $16.50 a month.

[wesheltonj]

(1) 6,000K to upwards of 20,000K

(2) Looks like more $$$ on upgrades soon. From Reef Builders

"AquaIllumination is finally getting their Cree XP-G equipped light fixture ready for shipping to consumers. The next generation AI light features a slew of new upgrades like the use of the the very efficient XP-G series LEDs and a new type of lens that was specifically optimized for use with the XP-G Crees. AI is touting higher PAR, a wider more uniform light field and 20% less power consumption than the previous generation of AI’s modular LED light system. A recent update to the AI website states that these hot-rod LED fixtures will begin shipping out December 15th and current AI owners will be pleased to hear about the Cree XP-G retrofit kit that will soon follow for upgrading the previous generation of AI lights. The next-gen AI lamps can be pre-ordered now from a range of AquaIlluminations dealers. Kudos to AI for staying on top of the game in terms of LED performance and technology and especially for including their previous customers in the new advancements with the forthcoming retro-kit.

From Cree:
Cree to Demonstrate XLamp® XP-G LED, Features 132 Lumens per Watt Efficacy, at LIGHTFAIR International

DURHAM, N.C., APRIL 30, 2009 — Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE), a market leader in LED lighting, announces it is demonstrating the newest addition to its lighting-class XLamp® LED family—the XLamp XP-G LED—at LIGHTFAIR International in New York, May 5-7, 2009.

The cool white XLamp XP-G provides 139 lumens and 132 lumens per Watt at 350 mA. Driven at 1 A, the XP-G produces 345 lumens, which is 37 percent brighter and 53 percent more efficient than the brightest XR-E LED. The XP-G LED has the highest lumen density of any available lighting-class LED, and it is based on the XLamp XP family package.

“The XLamp XP-G again raises the level of performance available from our XLamp LED family,” said Paul Thieken, Cree, marketing director, LED components. “This product is designed for customers requiring the highest levels of brightness and efficacy.”

The XLamp XP-G LED is being demonstrated at Cree’s LIGHTFAIR International Booth #1463. Cree is currently taking sample requests for the XLamp XP-G and targets the product to be commercially available the third quarter of calendar 2009.

[corruption]

I think I'm gonna build a LED retro down the line for my BioCube -- seems like it'd be a fun DIY project... already assembled a rough parts list:

BioCube LED Upgrade

Part Quantity Cost Source
Heat Sink 1 $12.00 http://www.heatsinkusa.com/storename/heatsinkusa/dept/263910/ItemDetail-10502684.aspx
Cree Cool White dies 6 $44.94 http://ledsupply.com/xrewht-l1.php
Cree Royal Blue dies 6 $29.94 http://ledsupply.com/xrerb-l1.php
BuckPuck drivers 2 $40.00 http://ledsupply.com/03023-d-e-1000p.php
24v 1.8A Power Supply 1 $26.88 http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16008+PS
Arctic Silver Thermal Paste 1 12.99 http://ledsupply.com/asta-7g.php
PC Fan 1 $4.00 Newegg – any quiet fan will do. Slim/Small.
Aluminum Project Box 1 $4.00 Radio Shack
Wiring, 16ga 1 $5.00 Radio Shack
TOTAL $179.75


This would include potentiometers for adjusting the drive of the LED's, as well as separate buckpucks to drive the whites and blues separate... might get fancy and make some sort of simple programmable timer down the line too :D

-Corruption

[wesheltonj]

Might want to look at XP-G's instead.

[corruption]

I dunno that it will be necessary -- its only an 8 gallon biocube, and I have no plans for light-intensive SPS in the tank... I'm also a bit of a cheapskate, and I'd rather get a proof-of-concept under my belt... if it works well, you can bet I'd be stepping up the game a bit for my 75 gallon tank :D

-Corruption

[txg8gxp]

You might also want to think about getting the dies premounted on stars. The dies are mounted to the star by reflow soldiering alittle bit of a pain. Just my 2 cents... Stephen.

[txg8gxp]

I am planing a 30x8.5 heatsink with 23 xre white and 22 xre blue powerered with 4 meanwell eln-60-48d. May link it all up with a reef keeper.

[txg8gxp]

What is benefit of going this route? more lumens yes, better for penetration but how deep of a tank do you think really needs these over the xr-e's? I think my tanks setup will probally only be 20" high.

Might want to look at XP-G's instead.

[txg8gxp]

With the higher lumens you should be able to get away without the need of reflectors for most apps correct. More lumens=more penetration.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[wesheltonj]

The LED's do not use a reflector, but do need a lens to disperse the light

[txg8gxp]

So I guess the the benefits on the high lumen led's besides just the higher power is you can produce the same(lower level power) with less mah, so less overall power consumption correct?

[wesheltonj]

From Reef Builders:
"XP-G series LEDs and a new type of lens that was specifically optimized for use with the XP-G Crees. AI is touting higher PAR, a wider more uniform light field and 20% less power consumption than the previous generation of AI’s modular LED light system.

20% less power consumption and more output equals lower energy cost and more light or stated another way it just more efficient.

[corruption]

I have some experience doing reflow mounts -- but I had intended to include the stars in the list last night... Its a rough part list, and I'm probably a month away from ordering anything anyway, so it'll get fixed ;)

If the XP-G dies are cheap when I actually come to ordering, I may order those instead... but in an 8 gallon biocube, I don't know that a 20% efficiency savings would be worth a potential 50% or more die cost...

-Corruption

[saabtech]

well glad to see you started a thread in the local forum regarding everything we have contemplated in the past few weeks stephen.
i think we should start a group buy to reduce the overall cost of componants. that would only be logical if enough people are interested.
who is interested?

i'm in Kevin.

[wesheltonj]

Here's a new LED unit, I do not know the price, but its also GHL controllable
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1750018

[saabtech]

why cant i find a number of suppliers that sell the leds i want... MAD MAD MAD....

[Bill S]

I have some experience doing reflow mounts -- but I had intended to include the stars in the list last night... Its a rough part list, and I'm probably a month away from ordering anything anyway, so it'll get fixed ;)

If the XP-G dies are cheap when I actually come to ordering, I may order those instead... but in an 8 gallon biocube, I don't know that a 20% efficiency savings would be worth a potential 50% or more die cost...

-Corruption

I have a WHOLE bunch of experience with these. Not for reef lighting, but for our boat (we have a 47' sailboat in Corpus Christi). I've spent a buttload of money on LEDs and drivers with LED supply. I've also done some experimentation with those same high output LEDs on an 8 gallon nano I have.

We LOVE the LEDs on the boat. However, this is a 12v supply (this is huge) AND efficiency is king. The fluorescents they replaced are not in the contest.

In the reef environment, however, it seems to be a whole nuther story. LEDs for lighting to SEE, is way different than LEDs to GROW CORALS.

With all of the experience I have in LEDs. for the 8 gallon nano, I'm going with MH. I mean, the decision isn't even close.

Oh yeah. Reflow mounts are... an art form? I'm decent at soldering, but this is really, really touchy. At one point, I was sending LEDs and mounts to Thailand just for the soldering. Seriously.

[corruption]

Bill, I would have previously agreed, if it weren't for the fact that there are people all over who have shown GREAT success with these LED's. For someone who's interested in tinkering, it can be a great opportunity to get in on the ground floor of what I'm convinced IS the future... The spectrum is in the right range, and if you read around whats been built already, PAR readings and growth rates are already showing that the strength is there... The biggest problem so far is initial cost -- hence why its for those who don't fear the big investment, or don't mind some DIY fun.


I might be interested in a group buy, though I don't know how soon I'd be able to get in on it :)

-Corruption

[alton]

One thing I am having a hard time with on LED's is the warranty put out by the manufactures. One has a 1 year on power supplies/2 on fixture, the other is a 5 year(much better but still not ten) The other is power consumption. One place I read is a module draws from 76 to 100 watts, but it does not tell how many modules are required to run a 5' light fixture? I love the controls, just not sold on the rest of the package?

[corruption]

Which fixture, the AquaIllumination setup? Pretty sure that its 1 module per foot for them -- other manufacturers I'm not quite so sure about. I really like the idea of the LED technology taking off, but I still think that the commercial solutions are a long ways from being attainable by most people... Part of the nature of being able to flow with the current is why I like the DIY aspect of it -- these things really aren't difficult to build, and from what I understand, as long as you have appropriate drivers for your LED's, they can work with the same GHL Profilux units with no problem..

-Corruption

[wesheltonj]

On the AI one module is 12" and one power supply will run two modules.

[corruption]

wesheltonj: how long have you been running your AI fixture, and how has growth been? Got a tank shot to quelsh the non-believers? :D

-Corruption

[wesheltonj]

I have been running LED for about 2 years. It will grow SPS as long as the are at the mid-point of higher, but I have a deep tank. I have one piece of SPS on the very bottom @ about 24" it has grown very little but has grown. (Bill has seen this piece, yes it very small). I have some other pieces left, a cap and a ton of pocilliopora. I am getting ready to change over to three part and will be adding back in SPS.

[corruption]

Yeah, a 90 is a pretty deep body to illuminate -- I could see SPS growth being weaker near the bottom.. Does the AI fixture give you an idea of the amount of intensity being used to power the lights? I know, at least with the Cree's, the lights are typically underpowered a decent amount from their max capacity -- I'd figure this would be similar here..

Also, I've gotta know -- in your sig, does that mean 300 square foot shark tank? Wild. :)

-Corruption

[wesheltonj]

Its a joke, I am a lawyer and my office is 300 square feet.

[corruption]

ahhh, hahahaha... thats pretty funny :) Makes more sense now -- I was trying to picture a shark tank larger than my living/dining room :D

-Corruption

[MAZ350SS]

This is the best info Icould find on the subject i couldnt try it my self because i found it to late but i am going to do it as soon as the holidays are over

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14502630#post14502630

[txg8gxp]

Nice build thread, not bad on par reading. I think his led count is alittle low for that tank size, plus he is not running any lens and they were the luxen led's cree's do have a higher lumens per led. So with all this said I think you could easily get higher par readings with newer, high power leds. Just my two cents, Stephen.

[wesheltonj]

The AI light has a total of 24 LED's per 12" section, 8 triple lens with 3 to a lens, That reefcentral build is not even close to that light output, Yes it will light up your tank but not much more then that.

[txg8gxp]

agreed..

[Bill S]

There isn't enough difference between the Cree and the Philips LEDs to make a real difference (107 vs 100 lumens), and at 2/3 the price, the Philps are a better deal.

They now make lenses for both the Cree and the Endor Stars, which should be used.

When using 3 up or 4 up LEDs, when you lose 1 led, you lose the whole star. It also makes heat issues easier to work with, with a single LED on a star.

BTW, the LEDs that ledsupply sells are "state of the art" LEDs.

[wesheltonj]

The cool white XLamp XP-G provides 139 lumens and 132 lumens per Watt at 350 mA. Driven at 1 A, the XP-G produces 345 lumens, which is 37 percent brighter and 53 percent more efficient than the brightest XR-E LED. The XP-G LED has the highest lumen density of any available lighting-class LED, and it is based on the XLamp XP family package.