bristleworm ID?

[tebstan]

Does anyone know of a good site to ID specific bristleworms?

I know they're not as bad as all the hype has made them out to be.
I knew I had a few hitchhikers on my rock. They gave me the heebie jeebies, but I let them be.

Today I finally saw one foraging, and he has grown. I saw 2" of it, more was hidden. And it was strangely pretty. Gun-metal-blue body that shined bright blue when the light hit, pink base at the white feathery bristles.

They still give me the creeps, but I'd like to know more about them.

[Third Coast Tropical]

just dont grab them unless you want your fingers to feel like sandpaper for about a month

[tebstan]

Been there already... not with this guy, thankfully. Or maybe him, months ago before the growth spurt. Am I supposed to measure him shrunk up or stretched out? He was cruising from one rock to the next, but shrank back when he spooked. The section of body I saw was 2" or more while stretched, but maybe 1" contracted, and more was hidden. I'll call him Stretch. :) Am I the only weirdo that thinks he's pretty?

[Big_Pun]

nope just a basic bristle i had hundreds in a 14g biocube

[funkyseamonkey]

I had one of those too! I have been trying to figure out what he was to ...i always thought bristleworms were red and pink...so i freaked out when i saw a pretty blue one...mine was big 4 inches streched...

[corruption]

Yep -- typical common bristle worms, also known as 'Fire Worms' -- tend to come from the Carribean, if I recall correct, but are not limited to that region.

http://www.reefs.org/hhfaq/worms/faq_bristle.jpg/variant/medium

Nothing to worry about, and I agree, they are very cool looking... Just keep up your maintenance, and they won't be a nuisance. As morbid as it may sound, I've crushed them (inadvertantly) with my Mag-Float before -- they produce this very strange holographic-like shimmer after being bifurcated... Very interesting :)

-Corruption

[tebstan]

This fella didn't have any red on the body like that. He was all blue, with only a tiny bit of pink at the base of each bristle.
I'm sure he's no different though, for all practical purposes. I was just wondering if there were a way to ID the different species. I'm a nerd like that.

[Third Coast Tropical]

I have a polychaete key if youre really that much of a nerd....hmmm, I suppose having a polychaete key makes me a really big nerd...lol



I would have to dig it out...just moved

[tebstan]

I used an online one to narrow it down, but it's not meant for hobbyists and I had to look up some of the terms. I had to list "Not observed" for much of it as well. But I got it narrowed down to two classes, and a simple image search helped me make a guess. Emphasize the word guess.

Perinereis amblyodonta

very pretty

[Third Coast Tropical]

K.....my 2 cents as a scientist.....picture keying is a cardinal sin......if you want to know what it is and you're going to key it out.....you will want an actual specimen where you can work with it.... Most keys ask some in depth things. Sometimes dissection is required.....segments counted, etc.....

That's my background speaking. I learned early on not to picture key.....now as a hobbyist..I understand that's about all you can do....how is that for nerdy?....lol....I am guessing it is a bristleworm, and if you have one you probably have many.....want to find a big one.....pick up some of your larger rocks and look underneath. That is usually where the champions are

[tebstan]

K... my 2 cents as a sales person... getting on a high horse is cardinal sin...

Like I said, the key is not meant for hobbyists, it asked questions many of which I had to respond "not observed". I emphasized the word "guess." I did not picture ID, by image googling bristle worm. I used a scientific key and my own observation. That is the majority of science- observation, and all the bias and ignorance that that includes. I'm not guessing it's a bristleworm, I know it's a bristleworm, because I'm not an idiot. I wanted to know what kind of bristleworm, because I'm curious and this one is atypical. I don't plan on writing paper about it, I just wanted to know why it was blue.

I'm sure there will be many more responses to this particular post than there was to the original one about bristleworms. And that's a shame. I post here as a hobbyist, not a scientist. I love this hobby, but I hate the elitism it too often includes.
Nothing personal, to Third Coast Tropical, you just happen to be the last person to respond my post. It’s not the first time I felt a simple question was dealt with a high tone. I asked a simple hobbyist question that led to a scientific reprimand. Frequently, I log into MAAST and see that the most active posts are about items for sale, or the lounge. Newcomers are greeted a welcome, but much of the information is relegated with an elitist tone. I’m not sure how other newcomers feel, but I’ve detected a clique feel the segregates newcomers from self-proclaimed experts. I first read posts on MAAST about six years ago, and it was one of the reasons that I was scared to take the plunge into the hobby. It was not very inviting.
When someone is eager to learn, encourage that. Positive reinforcement is not just a dog training technique.

[corruption]

I can understand how you would get that impression, but simply put -- its not intended to divide, its intended to underline a huge factor in this hobby -- knowledge is key. I don't think anyone here is attempting to segregate the new away from the hobby, simply trying to state what most of us learned the hard way... you can be told how to do things, a million different ways, but the scientific study and understanding of what is going on is what lets you understand how to do things on your own -- and having your own solid understanding coupled with a community that helps those who help themselves goes a long way :)

Essentially -- in this hobby, the absolute best thing that can be encouraged is self reliance, both in determining the best course of action, and in maintenance and beyond. I don't think anyone intended anything but this.

-Justin

[Third Coast Tropical]

Hmmm.....I think you looked too far into that. If my post offended you, I apologize. Not my intent. My perspective on most things here and relating to marine science is From a scientific viewpoint, not from a hobbyist standpoint, although I am a hobbyist too. I have an extensive scientific background and want to help. Again. Apologize if you were offended. I was actually making fun of myself.

[jroescher]

Not being a scientist, and only a barely a hobbyist compared to others on here, this may be a dumb question, but...

How hard or expensive is it to take a sample, one of tebstan's if he were to catch one for example, and scientifically identify it. If it's like one that so many of us have, that would be really interesting for everyone to know.

Also,
does color temperature of the lighting affect the color of the worms as we see it?


Older picture from my fuge:
http://johnroescher.com/images/BristleWorms.jpg

[Kristy]

John, I think your bristle worms are trying to spell out a message for you!

[Third Coast Tropical]

If I wanted to identify a polychaete, ...I would take out at least 2 specimens, preferrably more, and either preserve them, or keep them alive and take them to someone who specializes in marine invertebrates. I don't know any in SA, but in CC in would take it to Dr. Kim Withers at TAMU-CC and ask her. It isnt too difficult nor expensive. Forceps to remove the specimens, a bucket or jar to keep them in, and then gas to get there and back, and maybe her time. I am sure there are more there on that campus or even at UTMSI that could tell you exactly what it was.


Tebstan...again, I obviuosly offended you and I again I apologize for that. I am not an "elitist" nor belong to a "clique". I don't know very many people on this site personally. I choose to take part on it to offer what has been taught to me by far more educated scientist than myself, several who are world renowned in their fields. This site needs more marine scientist on here as there input is valuable to us all. I know of 2 others other than myself that participate on this site regularly, both of whom are continuing the education to the PhD level....both of whom have a wealth of knowledge to share. I know of several others who refuse to particpate to avoid confrontations such as this one, and that is unfortunate. I offered to dig out my key for you. In hindsight, perhaps I could have driven my point across a little differently, as to not make it sound like a reprimand.....more like the first paragraph of this response. Again, my apologies. Not really on here to belittle people, make friends or enemies. I ask alot of questions myself. There are some hobbyist on here that also have quite an extensive knowledge in certain areas about marine science. I look to them to answer some of my questions. I don't know everything about marine science. I am not a polychaete expert. I do have literature that might have been some help. And I no longer feel the inclination to help out so much.

[Third Coast Tropical]

I can understand how you would get that impression, but simply put -- its not intended to divide, its intended to underline a huge factor in this hobby -- knowledge is key. I don't think anyone here is attempting to segregate the new away from the hobby, simply trying to state what most of us learned the hard way... you can be told how to do things, a million different ways, but the scientific study and understanding of what is going on is what lets you understand how to do things on your own -- and having your own solid understanding coupled with a community that helps those who help themselves goes a long way :)

Essentially -- in this hobby, the absolute best thing that can be encouraged is self reliance, both in determining the best course of action, and in maintenance and beyond. I don't think anyone intended anything but this.

-Justin


well stated...

[Europhyllia]

John, I think your bristle worms are trying to spell out a message for you!

They are! :) I think he took the picture before the vowels came in though ;)

[jroescher]

THE INFORMATION, KNOWLEDGE AND SERVICE YOU PROVIDE TO US IS SERIOUSLY APPRECIATED!

Please don't get disgruntled. We do need more of the scientific type people here. I've always found it surprising how few well educated people take part in these discussions. So much of what I learn, and probably the same for must of us, is from trial and error. And the myths run rampant is this hobby.

[jroescher]

Well, I never noticed that before but it really does look like that.

[tebstan]

To Third Coast Tropical, I know you didn’t mean to offend. And like I said, don’t take my response so personally. My feelings about requesting help on posts are not solely because of your wording, I know you were saying it tongue-in-cheek. But you took my question to a level I didn’t intend.

I started out asking about a reference to help me ID a worm I thought was pretty. I can totally understand that some people would want to yank it out of the tank and stick it under a microscope. But that totally was not my question. It clearly wasn’t a typical fireworm, I’ve seen plenty of those. I wanted to see if there was a cohesive site that discussed the other common varieties, similar to the Algae Page or the Hitchhiker ID link.

I rarely post my questions. I research first, ask at a LFS next, then ask my personal friends in the hobby, and finally search archives of MAAST and other bulletin boards before posting a question. And I don’t expect any of those resources to give me consistent or definite answers; that is the nature of opinions.
I’ve posted questions before and received little response, possibly because the post was buried under new posts. (Which is how I notice so many posts have to do with selling things, and questions get buried.) Sometimes when I post questions, I get no actual answers or assistance, but am thrown a bone of random information of little use to my question. I’ve become less inclined to ask for help because I don’t usually get much.

[lwharper]

just remember that you can garner knowledge from anything that gets posted on MAASt. It may not be the knowledge you are looking for but if you will just pay attention you will find and answer to something that you were looking for. No knocking just understand that we are all here for the very same reason...to learn more about our hobbies; the fun things that we like to do. Take the advice of any person that is willing to give it up. You may not use it now and you may not use it later but before it is all said and done it will come in handy. Do not dismiss any advice...you never know when it will save your favorite fish.
And about the bristle worm...i believe that you see the different hues in color because the worm was at one time broken and/or partially eaten and they enjoy the gift of regeneration. The new growth tends to maintain the color of a young pink bristleworm. Don't know if it helps any but there you go.

[Europhyllia]

Sometimes when I post questions, I get no actual answers or assistance, but am thrown a bone of random information of little use to my question. I’ve become less inclined to ask for help because I don’t usually get much.

We throw you what we got! :blushing:
I know I post a lot and much of the time it's not the most scientific or enlightened post but I figure I'll give you what I got and you can take it or leave it but at least you don't hear the crickets chirping in response to your post (I hate when that happens. I prefer a well meaning useless response to no response at all. Must be a girl thing)
I was going to post the link to wetwebmedia's Polychae ID pages (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/polychaeidfaqs.htm) but figured you'd already looked there anyway.

[tebstan]

And about the bristle worm...i believe that you see the different hues in color because the worm was at one time broken and/or partially eaten and they enjoy the gift of regeneration. The new growth tends to maintain the color of a young pink bristleworm. Don't know if it helps any but there you go.

Huh. He had no pink that I could see. Fireworm and many bristleworm pics show a predominant amount of pink/orange. Figured that was just a species/variety trait, not an age/regeneration thing. When they're in, uh, breeding mode, they look like a totally different critter. If this fella didn't have any pink, could it mean he was old, or just so long that I didn't see the pink end? (Eew.) He wasn't small, diameter-wise.

EuroMom, you do answer many of my questions, thanks. And yes, I had checked WWM - it led me on an hours long worm reading frenzy. Still didn't see anything that quite matched this guy, but it kept me interested enough to keep reading and led me to check out the Museum of Natural History's Research and Curation site. Which, I'm sure, didn't give me an exact answer, but it gave me a way to learn more about what to watch for, without killing the little (big) guy.

He was *blue.* I had the actinics on when I spotted him, put a red light on him, and then a white light. Under those lights he looked blue, purple, and then gun metal blue under the white light.