All excited - I am making a CO2 Scrubber :)

[Europhyllia]

My pH monitor is driving me crazy. I can't stop looking at it. In the old days I'd only check pH every once in awhile - usually in the evening after getting off work.
Now that I monitor it continuously I can see how much it drops overnight. :(
If I just checked in the evening I'd be happy as a clam... :blushing:

So I've been eyeing the CO2 Scrubber from MSU Research but the $29 replacement cost of the cartridge was really putting me off.

Yesterday I found a link to the filterguys though and I ordered the componenets and media! Replacement cost of the DIY project media (same stuff) is only $10 (1/3!!!). I can live with that!

[txav8r]

We are gonna need to see pictures and details of the build.
Sounds cool!

[Europhyllia]

I think it's going to look very much like the original design (I am not that original to reinvent it ;) ):
http://www.mcuresearch.com/co2.html

[txav8r]

Let us know how it works. I'm interested in one.

[ErikH]

Also to battle the PH drop overnight you can install a clamp on light with a compact flourescent bulb that runs opposite the tank's daytime light cycle. This will help to keep that steady.

[Europhyllia]

Erik I am already doing that for the cheato in the sump and the HOB fuge as well.

[ErikH]

Ahh I see. Too much macro possibly? I have read that can cause a lowered PH. :) The premise for this thing is intriguing, science melts my brain.

[Europhyllia]

Too much macro? I never thought of that. I figured since plants convert CO2 to oxigen and less CO2 means higher pH, more macro would be good.

[ErikH]

Here I found this for you.

"Carbon dioxide levels and photorespiration
As carbon dioxide concentrations rise, the rate at which sugars are made by the light-independent reactions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-independent_reaction) increases until limited by other factors. RuBisCO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuBisCO), the enzyme that captures carbon dioxide in the light-independent reactions, has a binding affinity for both carbon dioxide and oxygen. When the concentration of carbon dioxide is high, RuBisCO will fix carbon dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fixation). However, if the carbon dioxide concentration is low, RuBisCO will bind oxygen instead of carbon dioxide. This process, called photorespiration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photorespiration), uses energy, but does not produce sugars.
RuBisCO oxygenase activity is disadvantageous to plants for several reasons:

One product of oxygenase activity is phosphoglycolate (2 carbon) instead of 3-phosphoglycerate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-phosphoglycerate) (3 carbon). Phosphoglycolate cannot be metabolized by the Calvin-Benson cycle and represents carbon lost from the cycle. A high oxygenase activity, therefore, drains the sugars that are required to recycle ribulose 5-bisphosphate and for the continuation of the Calvin-Benson cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin-Benson_cycle).
Phosphoglycolate is quickly metabolized to glycolate that is toxic to a plant at a high concentration; it inhibits photosynthesis.
Salvaging glycolate is an energetically expensive process that uses the glycolate pathway and only 75% of the carbon is returned to the Calvin-Benson cycle as 3-phosphoglycerate. The reactions also produce ammonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia) (NH3) which is able to diffuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse) out of the plant leading to a loss of nitrogen.
A highly-simplified summary is: 2 glycolate + ATP → 3-phosphoglycerate + carbon dioxide + ADP +NH3 The salvaging pathway for the products of RuBisCO oxygenase activity is more commonly known as photorespiration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photorespiration), since it is characterized by light-dependent oxygen consumption and the release of carbon dioxide."

from this article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis#Light-independent_reactions

[Europhyllia]

Clear as mudd! LOL

[ErikH]

Oh yeah, it's nasty to read. That's why it's always advised to thin out your macro, or at least I would assume so. I have also read to keep the light on 24/7 to keep the algae from going sexual. It's hard to remember, with so much falsehood on the internet, what is real and what is bunk.

[beareef19]

The color changing media sounds like a desicant that absorbs moisture thus changing from white to blue when exausted thats why they dont want you to get it wet. Do you have a skimmer on your tank? Aquatic plants absorb co2 and give off o2 if you increase are bubbles in your skimmer you will in turn burn off the co2 The more co2 the better plant growth as long as your lighting and everything else is up to par you may have to adjust your ph with buffer. How is your cal, levels
Barry

[Europhyllia]

Calc is 450, alk is way high at 14 dkh that's why I am scared of buffering any more.
Skimmer is running (ASM skimmer)

[glennr1978]

Are you actually having any issues with your tank? If not, I wouldn't bother with it. Keeping ph levels stable is important, but I think people get too caught up with trying to keep in the "optimum range". My tanks have alwayshovered around 8.0 and I've never had any problems because of it.

I would definitely stay away from adding buffer if I were you. At 14dkh you are already reaaallllllly high, adding buffer would just increase that number further. Also, buffer is just a temporary fix, it will drop back down quickly.

How much fluctuation are you having anyway?

[corruption]

Agreed -- stability in pH is far more important than any specific figure -- while the pH curve is logarithmic in nature, a spread range of 3-4 tenths of a point is perfectly fine, assuming long-term stability. Most everything that typically would go into a reef tank can maintain somewhere in the 8.0-8.3 range without ill effects --- presuming the swing of .4 points isn't occurring on a daily basis.

-Corruption

[Europhyllia]

It's very regular but my daily low (early morning before lights on) is 7.70. My daily high is 8.25 (before lights out).
I'd be happy with it just staying at 7.8 or above. 7.7 just seems a tad outside the acceptable range.
Fish, clams, inverts and corals all seem to be doing fine. But I'd feel safer if I could keep the daily swing somewhere between 7.8 and 8.4.

I saw somebody on RC posting their results using a CO2 scrubber by showing the graphs from their digital controller (which monitors pH and graphs it) and it totally stabilized it in a desirable range for them.

Is it just pushes my curve up just slightly then it will totally be worth it to me just for the peace of mind. There's really no maintenance involved once it's set up other than refilling the cartridge when the media wears out.

[Europhyllia]

My scrubber parts came in today. I already put it together and installed it.
It did seem to help push the pH up about 0.05.
The real test of course will be tomorrow morning to see how low it will swing overnight when there's less natural CO2 conversion (photosynthesis).

I'll report back at 6 AM lol Wish me luck. If it doesn't change things I'll be sad.

[txav8r]

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Jarob]

very interesting! keep updating!

[Paul28]

[QUOTE=EuroMom;710939]My pH monitor is driving me crazy. I can't stop looking at it. In the old days I'd only check pH every once in awhile - usually in the evening after getting off work.
QUOTE]


Everyones tanks are doing the same thing jumping around ph i bet half the people on this site dont have a pH monitor. CO2 is the number 1 drop in ph ive been running a pH monitor for many years now ive seen when alot of people come over ph drops bad when you dont open windows every other day ph drops. the best way to fix it is add a air pump and open your windows in that room every other day and co2 wont be a problem me i have a drop to 7.9 night to 8.3 sometimes in the day but if you dont have a Calcium reactor just add a airstone to a pump and put it in the overflow or the sump , how many people in maast have a pump and airstone on the tank i hope alot :)

[Paul28]

o yeh the CO2 scrubber is a bad *** idea but here is the downside wait how often you half to change the media i know im not rich hahaha its overkill wayyyyy overkill :) umm maybe every week or 2 weeks and WOW its pricy hope you have a skimmer that dosent pull up to 35scfh :)

[Europhyllia]

o yeh the CO2 scrubber is a bad *** idea but here is the downside wait how often you half to change the media i know im not rich hahaha its overkill wayyyyy overkill :) umm maybe every week or 2 weeks and WOW its pricy hope you have a skimmer that dosent pull up to 35scfh :)

Oh Paul that's the beauty of the DIY one!
There's no way I could have been able to afford the refills on the original design ($30 a pop) but the DIY one from the filterguys uses a refillable cartridge so I can buy the media in bulk and don't have to pay for the cartridge over and over again. :D
The media itself is only $10 per refill if I buy it by the half-pound (even less if it works well and I buy more at a time). I'm much more likely to be able to do that.
It's 3:25 AM and my pH is still 8!!! :D

[Europhyllia]

Everyones tanks are doing the same thing jumping around ph i bet half the people on this site dont have a pH monitor. CO2 is the number 1 drop in ph ive been running a pH monitor for many years now ive seen when alot of people come over ph drops bad when you dont open windows every other day ph drops. the best way to fix it is add a air pump and open your windows in that room every other day and co2 wont be a problem me i have a drop to 7.9 night to 8.3 sometimes in the day but if you dont have a Calcium reactor just add a airstone to a pump and put it in the overflow or the sump , how many people in maast have a pump and airstone on the tank i hope alot :)

I was already running a tube from the skimmer intake to the window and it helped a little - just not enough. I would be very happy if it stayed between 7.9 and 8.3 - that would be perfect!

[Europhyllia]

It did what I wanted it to do :)
Acceptable range in reef aquaria:
7.8 to 8.4

before CO2 media:
7.7 to 8.25

after CO2 media (24 hour highs and lows):
7.8 to 8.35

So I'm right where I want to be. :D Will just have to see how it holds up.