Battling red slime

[Teeb]

I've been fighting cyano in my nano for over a month now. I'm looking for advice on what else to do. I've heard that lighting, high phos, and low flow all contribute to the problem. So I've been tried the following:

Bulbs in the cube were about 8 mos. old, so I just ordered new bulbs.

I had the pump backed down a little and hadn't been using my hydor flo, so I upped the pump to max (Minijet 606 160gph) and put my hydor back on there.

I've been dosing with Blue Medic red slime remover for 3 wks consistently. I'm doing large (30% - 40%) water changes every 5 days as well.

Nothing seems to be helping, I have pulled my phosban out (per medications instructions), but did stick some cheato behind the rock to help keep phos down. Any other ideas, I've already lost my GSP and some zoas and it's climing up rock and ****ing off my mini carpet nem. What else could be causing this?

[Europhyllia]

try Polyfilter by Poly Bio Marine - filters out all kinds of junk (including excess nutrients, phosphates, etc.)

[dmweise]

Chemiclean will get rid of it in a few days. I use it when it happens in my tank. At the very least it will knock it back.

[Gseclipse02]

Clean off what u can and do no lights for 2 or3 days

[justahobby]

Red Slime controls don't advertise the extent to which they work. Most of them are anti-biotics which kill the bacteria... doesn't matter wether its good or bad, it kills it. The tank needs good bacteria to fight off the nitrates that cause bad bacteria (purple slime). Lights off can help keep in under control. It sounds like you already have a good grip on the other things to monitor and ways of fighting it. If its cycling then sit back and make the best out of the ride. It wouldn't be unheard for this thing to take over a month to finish. As my signature says: only bad things happen quickly in this hobby!

[kkiel02]

My buddy got some turbos for his biocube. They cleaned it right up. Also a phosban reactor will help starve it to death.

[allan]

I was fixing to put in a phosban (still plan on it), but these are the steps I took to push it back. I had such a thick carpet of the stuff over everything that when I'd get home I would siphon out the debris that I would stir up trying to keep it off of my coral.

Anyway, none of that worked for me so this is what I did.

I increased flow (added a K4), after turning the lights off completely for two days. I changed the direction of one of the K4s (I have two) to agitate the surface area to increase oxygen exchange.... oh, and began feeding sparingly. This worked for me. I had it for about two or three weeks, but the above combination cleaned it up within three days (two with the lights out, and another day with the lights on and the last vestige of red slime disappeared.

That being said, I still have red slime in my overflow, not a lot but it's definitely there. I don't mind this since it actually helps eat the nitrates which helps cut back on my water changes. It's like I've always said, it's not that I'm lazy...

Hope your slime issues are taken care of brother.

[corruption]

Red Slime controls don't advertise the extent to which they work. Most of them are anti-biotics which kill the bacteria... doesn't matter wether its good or bad, it kills it. The tank needs good bacteria to fight off the nitrates that cause bad bacteria (purple slime). Lights off can help keep in under control. It sounds like you already have a good grip on the other things to monitor and ways of fighting it. If its cycling then sit back and make the best out of the ride. It wouldn't be unheard for this thing to take over a month to finish. As my signature says: only bad things happen quickly in this hobby!

I couldn't have said it better myself! To reiterate one of the keys here -- this is something that everyone, at some point faces. Cyanobacteria, simply put, is one of the oldest, most present, and invasive life forms on the Earth -- so simplistic that its been found to exist in periods before major multi-cellular creatures had evolved, so invasive that you can literally encounter it anywhere... From creek beds to streets after a rain, to fresh and salt tanks -- it is always likely present in some minor form.

The keys here are nutrient control. If your tank is new (Ex, under 6 months), you're likely still experiencing part of the natural progressive cycle of a new saltwater tank. If its more mature than this, look to nutrient export -- step up water changes, use Poly-Filter and/or Boyd's Chemi-Pure as a chemical filtrant. Move your rocks around and clean out your sandbed well.

Good luck!

-Corruption

[Teeb]

Should I completely remove all light or just not run my lights? As in, put a towel around the cube so no light gets in? Will this have any adverse effects on my already stressed corals?

[corruption]

I wouldn't go that far, just turning off the lights should be enough. Personally, I wouldn't turn off the lights myself, I'd just work towards exporting as much of the waste as I can -- good sized water changes, every day or 2 for a week or so. You should see a difference quickly.

-Corruption

[jc]

Nutrient export is the key. Also try siphoning it out if you can.

[Teeb]

I wouldn't go that far, just turning off the lights should be enough. Personally, I wouldn't turn off the lights myself, I'd just work towards exporting as much of the waste as I can -- good sized water changes, every day or 2 for a week or so. You should see a difference quickly.

-Corruption


I've been trying that, 30% - 40% every 5 days and no luck, and that's with dosing the meds as well.

[justahobby]

Your case sounds pretty tough. I just reread your first post. Tank is at least 8 mo. old and its a biocube right?

Have you cleaned the back chambers? There's a sponge right before the return pump that traps detritus. I had problems with purple slime in a biocube and it turned out to be the build up of detritus in the back. I sucked all kinds of junk out of those death trap chambers. I also took out the bio balls, upgraded the pump, added a powerhead, and added a skimmer as a preventative for the future.

[ErikH]

thaw your food and rinse it.

[justahobby]

thaw your food and rinse it.
LoL, Simply put yet so correct. Flake food is also a big culprit of high phosphates.

[Teeb]

I will start rinsing food tonight. Thanks Justin and Eric for corals, both your tanks are beautiful and it was neeting both of you.

[Teeb]

Update: It's still coming back if I don't dose and WC the tank every 3 days. It's driving me crazy. I do know that I'm having temp swings, but other than that, I've tried everything I can think of. I'm bumping up my heater to try and level everything out. I just don't know what else to do. I've cut back lighting and feeding, upped circulation, all of my parameters are normal. Anyone have any other ideas?

[joelb]

teeb, go to tx tropical and tell them your problem and they will point you to the same thing they pointed me to, get it, use it and it will not come back. its because i used tap water for water changes. they say ro/di is the way to go... who do they think they are?!

[GoneReefing]

I had a problem with cyano on my 20G. my tank has been established for over a year. It broke out with a combination of two things, I believe. Changed my lights from stock bulbs to ATI/UVL combo and was feeding flake food occasionally. I bumped down the light cycle for a few weeks and quit feeding flake food and did water changes 3x a week instead of once a week. During the water changes I would siphon it right off the sand bed. Right now I only have a little bit left and every day I notice less and less. As other stated the key is really to starve it out with less light and the most important less nutrients and always use RO/DI, never tap as it usually has high phosphates which cyano loves. Good luck with the battle.

[justahobby]

I've gotta reitterate cyano meds are primarily antibiotics and will deplete your denitrifying bacteria..... Leaving you w/ the nitrates spurring on cyano. If you are still using them, stop and give your bio filtration time to catch up. With heavy cyano production its possible your parameters aren't an accurate representation of your nitrates like phosphates tests. Recheck for build up of detritus. If you have bio balls,LR, algae, filter floss in the back chambers they will need regular rinsing on SW.Have you tested your new SW to see if there's any contaminates? I've had a dirty powerhead (used to mix SW) give off ammonia. I've had my own theory that when you have an excess of cyano and or algae the die off will only feed new growth. It might take an hour or two, but vigorously removing every visable piece will put a damper in its production.

[corkyGramma]

I agree with most of what was said however... Teeb, I think you are doing too many water changes...allow me to explain. You can export phoshate, debris, cyano without removing so much water (every so often) and consequently removing your nitrofing bacteria --> you could cause ammonia poisoning.
Someone said to add polyfiber, this is recommended by bob fenner to do just that. I would take a turkey bastor and blast any and all cyano off your rocks and sand etc. and an hour or so later throw away the polyfiber and replace it with new. repeat every day until it doesnt come back. This stuff is super cheap and every effective. Good luck!

[corkyGramma]

. I'm doing large (30% - 40%) water changes every 5 days as well.



...per this

[ErikH]

I would not try an 8g with tap water. That is your problem. You keep adding phosphates, silicates, heavy metals and other garbage. It's just too nasty of water for an 8g feasibly.

that's assuming you are using tap.

[Teeb]

I've gotta reitterate cyano meds are primarily antibiotics and will deplete your denitrifying bacteria..... Leaving you w/ the nitrates spurring on cyano. If you are still using them, stop and give your bio filtration time to catch up. With heavy cyano production its possible your parameters aren't an accurate representation of your nitrates like phosphates tests. Recheck for build up of detritus. If you have bio balls,LR, algae, filter floss in the back chambers they will need regular rinsing on SW.Have you tested your new SW to see if there's any contaminates? I've had a dirty powerhead (used to mix SW) give off ammonia. I've had my own theory that when you have an excess of cyano and or algae the die off will only feed new growth. It might take an hour or two, but vigorously removing every visable piece will put a damper in its production.


I tried that after you had mentioned the sponge in the back. I removed everything from the rear chamber and washed it out. I filled the rear chambers up with FW 3 times and siphoned them out. There was a lot of crap back there. I've been squirting off all of the rock that I thought could have be detritus built up. I change my floss every 3-4 days. I have done anything with the LR in the back chamber, I didn't think I would need to rinse it off. I only use RO/DI water and my TDS meter generally reads about 1-2ppm. I replaced all of the filters/DI resin in the unit when I bought it. It has maybe been used to make 200g at the most. I thought that Cyano was a bacteria, not an algae. Would it still need light to grow? I'm running a ton of Phosban and Cheato in the middle chamber hoping to snuff it out, but no luck yet. I'll keep the red slime meds out for a week and see if there's any improvement. This stuff is a PITA.

[corkyGramma]

I would not try an 8g with tap water. That is your problem. You keep adding phosphates, silicates, heavy metals and other garbage. It's just too nasty of water for an 8g feasibly.

that's assuming you are using tap.
Well, it should be easy to fill 8gal of ro/di right.:bigsmile: I still carry jugs...ever walk by your tank and decide to sacrifice your bottled water?

[justahobby]

I say rinsing (w/ SW) because they are just as likely of a detritus trap as the chambers themselves. IMO there is far less free floating bacteria that would denitrify vs. the amount of bacteria in and on your rocks and I think a microscope would back me up. However, large WC in a small tank requires a keen eye to ensure you aren't messing with the chemistry too much (far more keen than me). You're right, cyano is a bacteria. Unfortunately, A photosynthetic bacteria that really doesn't need much light to keep going.


Sorry if my sentences were broken up, I was googling you some helpful articles at the same time. I've become a little nuts w/ reading Randy Holmes articles and boy is there A LOT of them! Here's some articles that may given you some more insight to what you are fighting.

Nitrates: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm
Organics: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php
Iron: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm
Dinoflagellets (not the same thing but they share a common ancestor and can help you in understanding the cyano, also dinos tend to pop up after you have finished w/ cyano.)
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

[Teeb]

That's a lot of reading Justin. Well after dosing Microbacter7 for a few weeks now, I have seen some relief in my larger tank and the cyano seems to be receding. It's still full force in my Biocube though. I'm not really sure what else to do. Anyone want to loan me a small HOB skimmer to try that? I bought a phosphate test kit and my reading weren't that bad .25-.5ppm. I've cut to very liberal feeding every other day. Any other ideas?

[justahobby]

Here's another idea hehe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ttJBFxKdE&feature=related

...........................
Sorry 'bout that, I couldn't resist. I've read good things about the microbacter7 when fixing vodka induced cyano. Measuring PO4 during an outbreak won't do a lot of good if the cyano is gobbling it up first. Sorry if it's in a previous post (head ache to bad to read em all) - Have you measured the PO4 in your water source? What are your nitrates now?

It wouldn't hurt to take out the LR and rinse the vigorously in a separate bucket. Your rocks might be full of organics that are leaking out over time. I've read somewhere that fish can convert 50% of food into energy (dependent on tank temp) while humans convert 20%. As far as feeding - What we think is too little may be too much :)

I have a biocube skimmer that's not being used right now. I have never personally operated it so I can't say if it will help or not.... or even worth trying. BUT I do know that it's past due for a new air stone.

[Ping]

How many fish do you have and how much do you feed.