feedback part 2

[Gseclipse02]

"yes carl is right. this back and forth needs to stop immediately. i will give you guys the opportunity to edit your posts and remove the pm quotes. posting of pms is against the terms of use and is cause for a warning and possible ban. please follow the forum rules.

as for the new forum, the bod discussed it today and we agree that something should be done. but, we cannot assume the responsibility of monitoring every transaction that occurs on this site. i have personally contacted our admin and he has informed me that he can put up a feedback deal like the one gseclipse linked to in an earlier post. this won't be available overnight, it will take some time. but it is coming.

edit: oops i think i took to long to write my post. i promise i started typing before chris posted."


thanks aggman i think once people use it they will like it

one issue we had with it is people who didnt like some one would leave bad feedback

[cbianco]

Members,

Just a reminder to keep this thread on topic. The last thread was closed due to off topic discussion.

No specific attacks please, only discussion regarding a "feedback" type of forum.

Thank you,

Christopher

[carlinsa]

thanks chris. i figured it was headed that way to be locked. i would like this to stay on track so people can give PROS and CONS to why we need this to see if we can get this to go through.

pros ------- will help people of future purchases know wheather or not to deal with certain individuals.

it will also let people know if "FRONTING" someone an item can be trusted.

can show that if a person is on here to be just a SELLER or someone who is actually on here to help others and occasionally try getting rid of things.

i am sure there are more pros.

cons-----two sides to every story.

people will try to blast someone else.

there are more cons too i know it but its early and my brain doesnt work before 8 it just functions enough to get me dressed and the kid to school.

i think we could set something up like a 1-5 star rating and a "poll" type response. NOONE is allowed to leave there own feed back. feedback would be things like
-item not as described-
-looks good but not functional as descibed-
-held item for pick up but no call no show-
-fronted item an after contact still no pay-

-great seller an/or buyer item as described-


i know there are more bad than good on comments but really if somone says hey tank is scratched, pump works if you throw it, salt is hard as a rock cause it got wet then you know what your getting and you can put the good comment cause it WAS described just like they said.

the bads are more because people would like to know that is wrong and why it is bad.

any more ideas i know they are there and any more suggestions would be good too.

keep it civil cause i think there are MANY who would like to have this forum and getting threads locked doesnt get anything accomplished.

[CoryDude]

I think yesterday's experiment shows exactly why we don't need an open forum.

As far as arbitration, after thinking about it, I don't feel maast should be involved in resolving disputes between private parties. However, are there any organizational bylaws that bind members using the sales forum to adhere to certain rules?

Just wondering is a member could be banned for egregious behaviour such as outright theft, wire-fraud, etc.

[ErikH]

I don't think an open forum will do anything but fan fires. MAAST should not be involved in any disputes unless there are by laws broken in the way things are handled on this site.
There needs to be a sticky, or an addition to the current sticky in the for sale forum that let's people know that yes, you can get ripped off.

Just don't break rule #1.) Never front your items or your money.

[hobogato]

i agree with erik. cash and carry anything else and it is buyer/seller beware.

[Crazyeyes]

I agree with Ace and Erick. Maybe there can be a lean on items that are not payed in full and that will stop someone from posting in the for sale or trade forum until the item has been paid. Pros to having an open forum would be that if you look at someone's history and see it has been negative you can defer from them, or if it positive you can trust them a little more. Cons would be the disputes from the parties if there is an disagreement. An solution to keep people from bashing another is to create a multiple choice answer for the feedback that the person is giving buy/seller. Personaly this forum is for knowledge, and a perk is the sell/or trade forum, maybe there can be a rating for useful knowledge to keep certain people from getting minimum amounts of post, to sell items in the for sale or trade forum.

[cbianco]

IMO...

I am all for a feedback forum. The problem is moderating.
-What's wrong, what's right?
-Who's honest, who's not so honest.
-How can you moderate a forum that is intended to dish bad (and good) facts about another member?

Moderators would have to remain slightly liberal with their moderating duties in this forum for it to work.

Personally, I'd like to see the feedback forum put into practice, rather then continue without one.

Christopher

[ErikH]

The major problem is moderating when there are two sides to every story. I can see this becoming a problem because it could lead to another online dispute, which will be convoluted with fact and fiction. Then it would still just come down to who to trust. I think cash and carry should be the number one rule, and leave the disputes, ratings and everything else to the individual. I do not want people to get ripped off, but I don't want to see other people slam each other anymore in public forum. It's nasty, has nothing to do with keeping fish, and should be left to the public, in private.

I do think a "rep" system would be beneficial. People could boost your rep by the responses you give, pictures you take, etc. I think that could help a newbie discover what people's points may be more valid than another. Of course, a few will slip through the cracks, ie. old reefers NEW to this site, old reefers that do not post much, etc, but even if they do, it's only rep points!

I don't think an ebay style system should be implemented on such a small site, for such a small portion of the site.

my .0000000002

[Mr Cob]

I agree Erik.

[Europhyllia]

I don't think we need a whole forum for this. Just a simple point system would work for me.
I see this frequently in other forums I post in. It just shows up under the member name and it looks something like this

EuroMom
Transactions: 5/100% positive

or

EuroMom
Transaction: 5/ 80% positive (if I get a negative for a transaction)

Maybe this is a feature that could be easily added? Don't know.
That way it wouldn't take up moderator time, it wouldn't include any personal attacks, etc. - just points

PS: Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I didn't revisit the previous thread after the first few pages.

[Bill S]

While cash and carry works most of the time, how about if someone sells you a piece of equipment, and then you get it home, and it doesn't work. This has happened to me on MAAST. What especially sucked is that it was a heater, and it stuck ON.

[hobogato]

this is a risk with buying anything used. if there is a doubt, plug it in before you pay for it and take it home (i know - hard to do with a heater).

bill, i have a bad feeling that that heater was one you got from me when cleaning out the fishcrap in my garage - if so, im sorry and let me know what i need to do to make it right.

[snfkotara]

I believe any sort of point or rating system is good. Because its hard to know for new people to the hobby that dont know always exactly if the people they are buy from or doing business with are honest or if your being take.

[Bill S]

this is a risk with buying anything used. if there is a doubt, plug it in before you pay for it and take it home (i know - hard to do with a heater).

bill, i have a bad feeling that that heater was one you got from me when cleaning out the fishcrap in my garage - if so, im sorry and let me know what i need to do to make it right.

No, it wasn't you. If it was, you would know. It wasn't a big deal because it was a couple of bucks, in a pile of other heaters - I still got a good deal. Just wish I'd known it was stuck on! I was using this STRICTLY as an example - some equipment can't be plugged in to see if it works - lighting is a good example - if it's in components.

[Mr Cob]

I believe any sort of point or rating system is good. Because its hard to know for new people to the hobby that dont know always exactly if the people they are buy from or doing business with are honest or if your being take.

Well, this would be the same as looking at post count and if they are a charter member or not.

Chances are if they have a lot of posts, they have been around for some time and have some experience.

If they are a charter member then chances are they will do everything in their power to make a good deal and correct it if something went wrong because nothing is worse then having a bad deal with the people you see at the meetings and or communicate with on the forums daily.

So, a simple rating system will do no more then the tools/resources already in place. In fact a rating system will send MAAST in a different direction and will lead us further away from our mission statement. What's educational to the hobby about a member rating system?

Is everyone seriously prepared to read about the drama from member to member? That stuff does not belong on this site. Seriously, that's left best to law enforcement. Not MAAST.

These are my opinions and I understand that many may disagree...but that's my thought's on the issue and by no means any type of ruling or end of conversation or representation of the board. Just my thoughts on the issue.

[ErikH]

+1 Rob

[carlinsa]

lets just say what it is. in the past almost 5 years i have been on here there have been many discussions of adding a feedback forum and it NEVER happens. cause there is one who is for it and 1 that is not. but instead of taking it to vote through the members it decided in the BOD meeting and it never makes it to the people who are asking for it. so saying what it is its a dead horse that we beat on every year or so.

everyone who is intrested in the feedback forum just expect it to never happen cause its buyer beware or breaks down to if you buy it and its junk your an idiot and the person who sold it is ok cause BUYER should have known better and if they keep doing it all other buyers are still idiots too

[JimD]

Im a firm believer in, 'if you want something done, do it yourself', thats why I believe it should be left in the hands of the involved parties to settle any dispute in a civilized manner. However, Im not opposed to short term, voluntary arbitration if it will apply to a situatiuon. This could be done by anyone who feels they might be asble to help, not just maast or its board. As far as a forum dedicated to for sale issues, that, is a bad idea, its never a good idea to pit one person against another publicy, someone always gets hurt,.. A rating system, maybe but as mentioned, this isnt a place primarily for buying or selling, thats pretty much a luxury for the members. So how do you manage unethical practices? Do the best you can and if all else fails, call the cops..

[carlinsa]

noone said sales issues. all i think most people are asking for is a forum where you can go and say bought or sold to and then have PRE made responses you click next to and after that its CLOSED.LOCKED. it will just help but like i said in my previous it will happen when.................................

[txav8r]

As JimD said "if you want something done, do it yourself"

Bylaws
Article IV

Paragraph 4: The membership is granted the right to alter or reverse any decision of the Board of Directors by a two-thirds vote from all members in good standings of the organization.

[hobogato]

sorry to be a thorn jack, but that is one of the bylaws that needs cleaning up -

"members in good standing" - charter only? or web members included? and if so, how many members do we have (have to know to be able to know if 2/3 voted for it) i know you guys and gals have your work cut out for you with sorting thru all of those bylaw inconsistencies, hopefully by doing that, some of these issues will be easier to address or put to a vote.

[carlinsa]

yeah cause if you go 2/3 votes of 2796 members then we need 1874 votes. and with only 520 max on EVER and does that include all the banned memebers. and the older members who have been gone for years that noone hears from anymore. i wouldnt mind running a vote and trying to help push the process along BUT if thats the case where we need 1874 votes there is no need wasteing my time or anyone else. i mean in the case of voteing in Bstreep we got what about 50+/- votes.

thanks ace thats a question i was going to ask

[txav8r]

You aren't a thorn Ace.

We are working on the bylaws. We are trying to clean them up and cover issues that have been touched on in the past. It's a long process.

The rest of this is my personal take on the bylaws. Not that of the BOD.
I'm on my phone so I won't quote the bylaws but it says that charter members have the right to vote. Last time I counted there were either 250 or 300 charter members.
Worst case you would need 100 votes by members in good standing (dues paying members) to change or or reverse a ruling by the BOD.

[carlinsa]

Last time I counted there were either 250 or 300 charter members.
Worst case you would need 100 votes by members in good standing (dues paying members) to change or or reverse a ruling by the BOD.

well that would be on step next to impossible. when you have the review of the bylaws can we have this looked at. Can we look at AVERAGE charter member online in a given week or month. cause if you need 2/3 of all that would be almost impossible maybe we can get 2/3 of average online an ACTIVE users. how often are you allowed to try to reverse the BOD ruleing.

[Gseclipse02]

well that would be on step next to impossible. when you have the review of the bylaws can we have this looked at. Can we look at AVERAGE charter member online in a given week or month. cause if you need 2/3 of all that would be almost impossible maybe we can get 2/3 of average online an ACTIVE users. how often are you allowed to try to reverse the BOD ruleing.


i think your right on the last two votes we had we got 60.5 as an average maybe they can send the emails out to let people know that we are voting

[Bill S]

Folks also remember that the Bylaws call for an annual meeting in December. That's coming up.

There are a LOT of thoughts being thrown around. There are some shady characters around. I think SOME kind of system, even a real simple up or down, would be appropriate.

By the way, one can always file a formal complaint - especially in the case of a Board Member or a Charter Member:

Paragraph 2: Formal Grievance procedure
a. Any member that has an issue with another member or a member of the BOD, will submit a complaint by PM to a board member of choice.

[JimD]

That should be re-worded to include the option of the http://www.maast.org/forums/themes/smooth/buttons/report.gif (http://www.maast.org/forums/report.php?p=707808) function... One click and youre there...

[Bill S]

How the heck did you get the in the post? file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Owner/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-7.png

[Bill S]

How the heck did you get ! the in the post?

[Gseclipse02]

How the heck did you get ! the in the post?


http://www.maast.org/forums/themes/smooth/buttons/report.gif

http://www.maast.org/forums/themes/smooth/buttons/report.gif

put IMG code


edit that doesnt work nm

[JimD]

Spooky.... :what_smile:... lol

[carlinsa]

now jim is a ninja of stealth img codeing.