Hiatt filtration system

[CoryDude]

Thought I'd try and document my long term experiences using this type of filter. For those of you not familiar with this filter or are new to this site here's how this system claims to work:

1) This is a bacteria driven filtration system.
2) These bacteria are supposed to aerobically consume ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates. NO3 is converted to N2 gas.
3) A tri-based pelletized carbon is used in a "torpedo" cannister filter. The carbon acts as a home and food source for the "Right Now" bacteria.
4) This was developed by Bill Hiatt (aka Snake) who originally developed it for commercial sewage plants.

Here's tank specs:
- 90 gallon sps dominate tank
- 100 lbs live rock that I've had for 10-15 years.
- 7 medium sized fish (largest is a coral beauty).
- I feed the tank every other day with one cube of either mysis, enriched brine, or foumula one.
- chiller, euroreef skimmer, Iwaki 40rlt, 2 vortech mp40's, 2X250W halides, and 220W of vho's round out my equipment list.

Tank parameters:
- ph 8.3 night or day
- dkh 9
- calcium 400ppm
- nitrates 10ppm

[CoryDude]

There is nothing specifically wrong with my tank other than Nitrates. But, nitrates can quickly rise above 20ppm if I skip a water change and/or disconnect my sulphur denitrator. After talking with bstreep over the summer, I'm giving this method a shot.

I've soaked the tri-based carbon all week and added aprox 5lbs (calculated amount using Snake's exact formule) to the torpedo filter over a period of several days. PH levels are a concern with this filter, so I've monitored this very closely all week. So far no adverse side effects.

I added the Right Now bacteria to the tank tonight. Full colonization of the bacteria within that filter and tank is supposed to take 24hrs.

I know Richard and Bill have used this filter in the past and reported positive results. Richard had a good thread from a few years back if anyone is interested.

Hopefully they can chime in with pointers and knowledge. Snake also comments sporadically, so maybe he can give us his opinions also.

Anyways, I hope this works. Be sure to comment if you have any questions, advice, criticisms, etc. This will be an open discussion, so don't be afraid to state you mind (like that's ever a problem here at MAAST).

Cory

[Bill S]

Cory, just watch your SPS closely. As I've said, they can struggle with this system. That's the only reason why I quit using it before. I've been running a single torpedo with about 15lbs of carbon from December until early Sept, when I removed it. My tank was too sterile.

[CoryDude]

Bill, since you used this during your tank's cycle, did you ever see any measurable amounts of NO3? Or does this thing really consume ammonia before it gets to nitrates?

Yes, I'll be watching nutrients levels for the SPS. My goal is to get them between 2-5ppm. I'll be reducing the bacteria bed and will increase fish feedings if needed.

[Bill S]

No, never saw any real nitrates for a couple of months. Then - believe it or not - I had to add phosphates, to lower nitrates (they reduce in concert with each other with this system).

At one point in time, I was feeding a POUND of frozen food every week!

[txav8r]

Tagging along to see the results.

[CoryDude]

I'm actually seeing an uptick in the NO3. Took a reading today and it showed closer to 25ppm. I had a cleaner shrimp die in the tank last week. Maybe I missed a few parts.

Sent Snake an email to see what kind of timeline I'm looking at and what to expect. All his testimonials are with new tanks and not existing ones like mine.

Disconnected my rowaphos reactor after reading Bill's last post.

[Bill S]

A cleaner shrimp shouldn't make a difference.

Also remember, these bacteria take organic waste directly to N2. I don't believe they will reduce nitrates to N2 gas.

[CoryDude]

I thought they consumed both NO3 and ammonia? Oh well, then I should hopefully see a reduction as ammonia is converted to gas instead of NO2 and NO3?

[CoryDude]

All parameters are still the same including Nitrates.

Called Snake for some tech help. He was very nice and took the time to hear my situation and offer pointers. Here's what he recommended:

1) Increase flow through the torpedo from 7X to 10X. This will help increase the water's oxygen content which allows for optimal bacterial growth.
2) Turn off the protein skimmer since this inhibits growth of his RN! bacteria through physical removal and reduction in compounds the bacteria use for food.
3) Decrease BCOD (Biodegradable something) through manual syphoning around and under liverock.

He explained that the BCOD contains trapped NO3. It tries to maintain equilibrium with the tank's NO3 levels. If the tank water's NO3 levels fall off, then the BCOD releases stored NO3 to re-establish equilibrium. He feels this may be why I saw an increase in NO3 after a few days of use. Since the h2o is being stripped of NO3, the BCOD is releasing extra amounts to compensate for this. He lost me a little on the science aspect, but I think this was his explanation.

Since I don't want to buy a new pump, I'm not increasing overall flow through the filter. But, I have turned off the skimmer and will try and syphon off as much crud from under the rocks as I can get to.

I'll update in a few days after trying these suggestions.

[Bill S]

I should have told you about the skimmer. My fault. It's a big deal.

[CoryDude]

Skimmer has been off for 3 days. I've been using a berlin system all my life, so seeing an idle skimmer makes me nervous. I also did a small 10 gallon water change in order to syphon around and behind the live rock.

There's better polyp extension on some of the acros and a stylo. NO3 is still holding steady at 25ppm. But, is hasn't increased in over a week. Algea growth on the glass has slowed also. So the hiatt seems to be working on some anecdotal level.

Went ahead and ordered more RN! bacteria and 5 more lbs of carbon. I'm hoping that the extra carbon and reseeding it can provide better no3 removal. Of course, I'll remove carbon and make adjustments as needed in the coming weeks/months.

Overall, I'm a little dissapointed in this filter in it's first week, mainly because the bar was set so high. But, a lot of this could be my fault.

On a side note, many thanks to bstreep for all the advice and responses to my pm's. It's his fault for getting me interested in this system.

[CoryDude]

Been kinda of busy lately. Here's a weeklong update:

I reseeded the bacteria earlier this week. Skimmer has been off for 1.5 weeks. I actually measured the h2o flow output and it about 7.5 times the tank volume. Not where Snake wants it at, but within limits.

Tank inhabitants look good. Most acros have better polyp extension during the day. I'm also wiping the glass every 5 days for a light film of algae instead of every 3 days. For not using a skimmer for a few weeks, the tank water looks remarkably clean.

PH, alk, and ca parameters are the same, but I did see a slight drop in NO3 this past week. Salifert high range reads slightly darker than 10ppm and less than 25ppm. Where I first noticed the nitrate drop was on the low range of the salifert. It usually reads closer to 50ppm but now reads at 25ppm.

Either way, a nitrate drop without doing a major water change is a plus. This coupled with the water clarity seems to indicate that this system is working on some level. More to came as it becomes available.

[CoryDude]

I've just seen NO3 levels drop from (10+ppm high range, 25ppm low range), to (5ppm high, 10pmm low)........in less than 24hrs!!! That's the kind of reduction I usually see with a 50% water change.

It this trend continues, I'll up feedings. My goal is to maintain NO3 around 2ppm-5ppm on the low end of the test kit.

[ErikH]

Tagging along, I read up on this awhile back. keep posting!

[CoryDude]

I turned the skimmer back on earlier this week, but noticed NO3 wasn't being reduced anymore. Turned the skimmer off yesterday and saw a slight decrease in NO3 levels since last night. This goes against all my experience, but it looks like in my situation, skimming reduces the effectiveness of the system.

Corals look great. Many of the them have new growth nubs. All blue and green acros seem a little brighter, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. My borealis frag is regaining it's bright blue tips. A red milli has some of the longest polyp extensions I've ever seen on it.

There was a little brown algae on the substrate and a patch of cyano that appeared since last week, but most of that is already disappearing.

Tank specs:
ph 8.3
alk 9dkh
ca 420 meg/L
NO3 10ppm low range

[Richard]

This goes against all my experience, but it looks like in my situation, skimming reduces the effectiveness of the system.


You have to remember that you are using a system that was designed for waste water treatment. It just doesn't work well without enough organics in the water. It was amazing when we converted our liverock tank to a haitt. Imagine repeatedly sticking 200 lbs of uncured stinky rock in a 75 gallon and the water stays clear, no ammonia spike, nitrates never go above 10 and you never have to do water changes. Or 800 goldfish in a 50 gallon and nitrates at 5 without water changes. Those were the tanks where the hiatt worked the best. On other tanks sometimes they would get too clean for the system to work properly.

[olaggie01]

Can you test PO4? I'd be really interested in seeing how this system affects PO4 as SPS are much more susceptible to high PO4.

[Richard]

The bacteria Hiatt uses reduce PO4 as they reduce nitrate. It think the ratio is 1:4 if I remember correctly. I think Bill was actually dosing PO4 to his tank for awhile.

[Bill S]

Yes, I was. Sodium biphosphate. Intentionally adding phosphate to a reef tank was just plain... goofy.

[CoryDude]

Can you test PO4? I'd be really interested in seeing how this system affects PO4 as SPS are much more susceptible to high PO4.

Sorry for the late replies, it's been a crazy week.

olaggie01, I quit testing for phosphates months ago. Every time it would come up as undetectable. But, I don't have a nice Elos kit that can really measure lower levels. I'll test to see if there's been any increase since using this filter, but I doubt it, since these bacteria consume PO4 also.

Richard, I'd hoped you might chime in on this review. That 1:4 PO4/NO3 ratio is what Snake told me also. He really likes to pitch his products!!!

So far this filter hasn't left me with a sterile tank like Bill's. Maybe it has something to do with my reduced flow vs Bill's million gallon per hour pump. Hopefully I won't have to resort to dumping nutrients or phos into the tank, like he did.

As said earlier, my green and blue acros/stylos have brightened up. My wife was even asking earlier this week if I'd bought any new corals.

Growth has picked up as shown by the visable results as well as increased calcium uptake. I've had to adjust the effluent and co2 flow in my ca reactor a few times the past few weeks. Other than that, no problems so far.

[Bill S]

What I've noticed about mine is that even though I've removed the torpedo from the system, it's STILL sterile. I put some LPS into my 55 upstairs just a week ago, and they are doing VERY well all of a sudden!

[CoryDude]

Bill, did you lose all you 'pod populations and other rock dwellers? Do you think there was a break down in the food chain in your tank, starting at the microbial level?

[CoryDude]

Nothing new to report. Did test for PO4 w/no color indication, so I'm assuming it's at low levels. Still seeing new growth and branches on most acros. I'll be backflushing the carbon this weekend, since I'm coming up on 1 month of use.

NO3 10meq/L
PO4 undetectable
PH 8.2 (problem with Ca reactor caused this)
Alk 9dKH

[CoryDude]

Been reading a lot of the previous threads on this filter and stole one of Richard's ideas.

I've reworked the sump and took the Hiatt off the main return pump. It's now fed by a dedicated mag 12 that takes water from the one end of the sump and returns it back to the other end. From Richards posts, this is how the filter is used in commercial settings. I'm hoping this will keep the tank from getting too sterile. We'll see.

I measured the flow rate and it's almost 1000 gph. Snake advised that the 10X flow rate is important for obtaining the optimal DO content of 8+ mg/L. This level is the optimal range for his bacteria to consume waste at the fastest rate.

Why did I do all this? Well to be honest, I started seeing a little hair algae on the gravel and on a few rocks. NO3 was still fairly low, so I tested for PO4. Bam, saw some detectable phosphates. One of Richard's older posts said the carbon used in this system contains a higher phos level since it's not cleaned the same way as regular carbon.

So, I reinstalled my po4 reactor and made the above changes to the sump. I also turned the skimmer back on. Within a few days of all this, the algae started to thin out, and I only have a few receding spots here and there. PO4 levels have dropped back to undetectable and nitrates fell back to below 10mg/L.

The skimmer pulls very little skimmate since the RN! bacteria take care of most of the fish waste. All fish seem very healthy and I've seen my mystery wrasse develop some pretty colors on his dorsal and anal fins since adding this filter.

The sps still have great polyp extension and overall the tank looks pretty good.

[ErikH]

:)

[CoryDude]

Eric, thanks for tagging along. I used to be in a band during highschool, and I was having flashbacks to a Tues night gig we had at the Backroom and only our girlfriends showed up. Nothing like playing to a nearly empty room.

Tank is still great. In fact my new problem is keeping up with Ca depletion due to increased growth rate. I can't seem to keep my levels above 400mg/L with my reactor. Guess I'll be dosing come kalkwaser soon.

Since I've started this test, I've gone from performing a 50% water change every other week, to 15% changes every 2 weeks. This has saved me a lot of $$$ on salt (sorry Gabe). The increased stability in the tank seems to benefit everything and could also be a secondary cause for the explosive growth rates I'm seeing.

Only maint. this filter needs is a monthly backflush for about 10 seconds to ensure optimal flow through the carbon media. I'm still very happy with these results. I'll can't vouche for the quality, but I'll try and take some top-down pics of the acros and my setup for my next posts.

[ErikH]

cool man, we are all anxious to see those pics! I wanted to do this awhile back with the filstar mod. Maybe I will do it on my big tank. You should come by sometime and bring some of your best frags for trade!

[CoryDude]

Eric, tell Gabe to hurry up and get those frag racks and I'll start fragging more.

Jack brought up an important point. Why did I have a nitrate problem in the first place? Well, it has four legs, a tail, it purrs, and is the demon spawn of satan. Yep, cats. Now how does a cat factor into a nitrate problem? A little background info first:

My tank is an in wall set up and my fishroom was a part of my garage that I enclosed. After my kid was born, we moved our 3 cats into the garage and installed a window unit to keep it cool during the summer. This happed in the summer of '07, and coincidently that's when I started having algae problems. My nitrates were above 120mg/L at the height of my problem.

I checked the usual culprits first. I bought a larger skimmer pump, increased overall circulation, replaced my ro/di unit, reduced feedings, and even tried a sulphur denitrator. The denitrator helped, but NO3 would creep past 20mg/L within a week if I didn't do a large water change. At first I starting thinking this was old tank syndrome.

But, then I noticed that the no3 levels would rally amp up during the summer when I kept the fishroom door open (which opens into the garage). Then it hit me....what about ammonia from the cats' litter boxes? What if it were to enter the tank via gas exchange at the surface and enter the nitrogen cycle. So a few months ago, I tried a little experiment.

I mixed up 10 gallons of salt water in a plastic tub using a powerhead to aerate the water. I did this in the garage and after only 2 days, my kit showed ammonia at 2 mg/L. Then I mixed up the same amount of salt h2o in my house away from the cat boxes. No detectable ammonia was present after 2 days.

I spoke to Snake a few weeks ago about this, and he confirmed my suspicion. His clients have him test for this since ammonia can be corrosive to equipment. His specific example involved a print shop and a bowl of water that was being constantly agitated. His ammonia sniffer showed 5ppm in the print shop's air, and his water bowl showed detectable ammonia after only 2 hours!!!

Bruce at Aquatek also believes my cats are the culprits. He had a maint. client that had a pet monkey in their house that liked to put brown floaties in the sump, and his client had the same problem as me. He advised that urea from pet waste is even more potent than ammonia

I've added some exhaust fans to pump air into the fishroom from an adjacent pantry in my kitchen. Also added some door gaskets to help keep the garage air from entering the firshroom. But, I didn't do this till a month ago, and the hiatt was able to keep levels stable in the tank.

So I think this is a testament to the strength of this system. It was able to handle 7 fish and 3 cats.

[CoryDude]

More like low-fi.

Don't have the greatest camera so I put together a little tank video this weekend. Turn up the volume and enjoy:

40yKLgWAhJQ

[txav8r]

The tank looks great Cory! Nice video!
Glad that you got the nitrate problem under control. This is a very informative thread and I hope that more people read it. I have been taging along the whole time, I just haven't responded.

[Bill S]

Wow, CoryDUDE! I can't believe your SPS are doing that well! I really had problems with mine and the Hiatt. How full is your canister?

[CoryDude]

Still running about 7lbs (added 2lbs per Snake's instructions), but I may start pulling a few cups out. Last few nitrate tests were barely showing any color and the goal so far has been keep it around 2-5ppm.

I'm thinking since I can feed so heavily now w/o worry about nutrient buildup, that it may be contributing to the overall sps health.

[jesserettele]

I ran this system as my first ever system on a 125 for about 10 months about 3 years ago. I had very few problems, but then again I was just getting started, until an ice storm left me without electricity for three days. Then, like a moron, I left the pump plugged in and when the electrcity came back on toxic water pumped into my tank killing about $2,000.00 of stuff.

I over fed like crazy twice a day and my levels were normal. I built three custom tubes to try and mimic the torpedos and they worked pretty well. I plumbed the system so that I could hook a water hose and an air hose on the return side with an hose fitting on the input side running outside the house to back flush the system every couple months. I had about 30-40 lbs. of tri based carbon and about 50-60 lbs. of the calcium rock. The calcium rock didn't work and apparantly it is recomended to do half that amount of carbon now. I just recently parted out my custom tubes to scrap out the sch 80 bulkheads. It was a sad day.

[CoryDude]

Thanks for chiming in. That sucks about losing your last tank. I didn't take something like that into account. Guess I need to be careful on extended outages.

You didn't have a thread going on RC did you? I saw someone else that was making their own torpedoes. Anyways, yes, Snake now recommends about 1/3 of the calculated amount for reef tanks. He tried selling me on the ph rock, but I passed on that one.

Your backflushing setup sounds like an easier way than I'm doing it. Right now I disconnect the filter and take it in the backyard to flush with a hose. If you have any tips, pics, or ideas, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!

[jesserettele]

I don't remember doing anything on RC about these.

After I got about 10 X flow like you discussed things went very well. Here are a few pics of the plumbing under the tank. Sorry for the poor pics.

The first is the air line quick disconnect and the water hose inlet that is located at the exit of the carbon tube.

The second photo is the water hose exit that is on the inlet side of the carbon tube.

The third is all three tubes, flow was from RT to LT starting with carbon and then the useless calcium rock tubes.

The fourth is before intalling them and the fifth is after with a view of both the flushing valves with their ball valves isolating the system.

I have a whole ton of pics and could share how I built them if there is any interest. It was fun and the best part was that they worked.

[CoryDude]

Things are still rolling along. Nothing new to report. NO3 - 5 mq/L, CA - 400, PO4 -.05, ph 8.3, total alk 4.

Reefcentral has a new thread going on this method. I'd suggest reading it to see different points of view. Here's an interesting abstract from some research in the 90's regarding the purported strain of bacteria that the Hiatt uses:

Aerobic nitrification and anoxic denitrification are the two main steps of the biological nitrogen removal processes. However, studies have shown the ability of pure strains to consume simultaneously oxygen and nitrate. These properties of co-respiration were used to combine nitrifiers and aerobic denitrifier (Microvirgula aerodenitrificans) in a single aerated reactor under continuous and Sequencing Batch Reactor (SBR) cultures. The aerobic denitrifier was maintained by discontinuous addition of carbon. Under these conditions, nitrifying and denitrifying activities were observed with aerobic reduction of the N-oxides produced by autotrophs into nitrous oxide and nitrogen.


D. Patureau* (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TGN-3V5RY4G-30&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F15%2F1998&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1203762067&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=#cor*), N. Bernet, T. Bouchez, P. Dabert, J. P. Delgenes and R. Moletta
Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, Laboratoire des Biotechnologies de l'Environnement (LBE), avenue des Etangs, 11100 Narbonne, France


Received 26 September 1997;
accepted 24 November 1997.
Available online 24 November 1998.

[CoryDude]

Forgot to add that I emailed Snake on a simple yes/no question and he left a 5 minute voice mail on my phone in response. Nice guy, but he sure likes to talk.

[Richard]

Bill, did you lose all you 'pod populations and other rock dwellers? Do you think there was a break down in the food chain in your tank, starting at the microbial level?

I noticed on my 210 seahorse setup that I could not get pod populations to thrive even with adding cultures and feeding live phyto. Also I had almost no worms living in my sandbed. So I think in a full blown Hiatt setup there is a problem with keeping microfauna thriving.

[Richard]

Forgot to add that I emailed Snake on a simple yes/no question and he left a 5 minute voice mail on my phone in response. Nice guy, but he sure likes to talk.

LOL, Snake doesn't do yes or no.

[CoryDude]

Richard, are you and Boomer on RC still going at it?

All I was asking Snake is if one of his vendors was still in business. I made the mistake of giving him an update on my tank in the same email. That was my downfall I guess.

[Europhyllia]

interesting about the pod population declining. I am sort of fond of them. I wonder if my solid vodka dosing will have the same effect?

[CoryDude]

I haven't had that kind of problem in my tank. In fact, with the increased feedings, the pods seem even more abundant. I'm not even going to guess why my case is different from Bill's and Richard's experiences. Maybe flowrate, age of liverock, amount of carbon I'm using, who knows.

[Elijaher]

It's good to hear somebody else using this systems beside me. With success.

[CoryDude]

Elijaher,

I think I saw your posts on RC on the recent Hiatt discussion. Welcome to Maast and thanks for commenting. Yeah, I've been very happy with this system.

I wish more people would give it a try. But, I think part of the problem is the marketing for this method.

[Elijaher]

I find the thread at RC. Yep it the way it was market. When talking about replacing protein skimmer, calcium, nitrate, phosphate, etc reactor. Reefer will not like that. But those equipment works fine. Those systems still holds most beautiful reef tank so far. Bacteria drivens system's is growing fast and popular.

[CaptainGreg]

I don't remember doing anything on RC about these.

After I got about 10 X flow like you discussed things went very well. Here are a few pics of the plumbing under the tank. Sorry for the poor pics.

The first is the air line quick disconnect and the water hose inlet that is located at the exit of the carbon tube.

The second photo is the water hose exit that is on the inlet side of the carbon tube.

The third is all three tubes, flow was from RT to LT starting with carbon and then the useless calcium rock tubes.

The fourth is before intalling them and the fifth is after with a view of both the flushing valves with their ball valves isolating the system.

I have a whole ton of pics and could share how I built them if there is any interest. It was fun and the best part was that they worked.
WoWwWW Those tubes look heavy duty. I have a more simple design and it take about 1 hour to assemble and I made it out of light weight of 6 or 8 or 10 inch PVC tubes. Visit my profile and see if you can see the pictures. How do you attach pictures in these post?

[CaptainGreg]

I am wondering if I get the flow more than 10X does the Hiatt system still work or it just kick the RN out of the carbon tube? I use to have the carbon pack in the tube design like that described on Stan and Deb post on the about web page and it just does not work. I redesign the tube and make it similar to the red torpedo and fill the tank only 2/3 full and it work and pack flush is great without using the high pressure air or larger pump. I got the advice from the local Home water filter tech to fill the tank 2/3 full so that the back flush to work.

[Elijaher]

That's a good question about more then 10x I had problem getting 10x, using a pump rated at close 5000gmp to have return at 1250gpm on my 125gal tank.

[CaptainGreg]

That's a good question about more then 10x I had problem getting 10x, using a pump rated at close 5000gmp to have return at 1250gpm on my 125gal tank.
did you check out my profile. I have pictures of the carbon tube design. I have two Baracuda pumps in series and it should kick out at least 8000 gal/h.... on a 250 gal tank with 50 gal of water in the sump. I measure the max output of 6000 gal/h the system with one large carbon tube and three large caclite tubes. The over flow is barely keeping up with it. I have problem with the water staying cloudy for two days now. It seem to be kicking out lot of dust from the calcite or maybe the RN.

If it does not clear up soon, I have to turn off my second pump.

[CaptainGreg]

I had some red slime bacteria on my rocks afew days ago and it is now turning white. It seem to be dying.....

[CaptainGreg]

My ALK is a little bit low, but my cal is high. It might be the reason I point the return line too low into the tank and accumulate too much carbon, but I have top water movement on the top and in the sump. I will try to point the return water to the top of the tank if ALK does not return to normal in a few days.

[Elijaher]

I can't find any pic on your profile. Out of your tank or tube flow needs to be at 2500gph coming out. Do you have a gate vavle?

[CoryDude]

One of our Board Members (bstreep) was running more than 10X on his tank (I believe). His tank actually became too sterile using the Hiatt. He has a few posts on RC on some older threads on RC regarding his Hiatt experience.

From what Snake has explained, the bacteria settle everywhere in the tank, not just in the carbon tube. They will not be ejected out of the tube with flows in excess of 10X.

The whole point to the required flow rate, is that it helps increase over all oxygen content of the water to assist with the metabolic rate and reproduction of the bacteria (this is per Mr. Hiatt not me).

That could be one reason Bill had longterm problems with his filter system.

[Elijaher]

When I first start this system I use about 130gal of tap water to make saltwater.

[Elijaher]

did you check out my profile. I have pictures of the carbon tube design. I have two Baracuda pumps in series and it should kick out at least 8000 gal/h.... on a 250 gal tank with 50 gal of water in the sump. I measure the max output of 6000 gal/h the system with one large carbon tube and three large caclite tubes. The over flow is barely keeping up with it. I have problem with the water staying cloudy for two days now. It seem to be kicking out lot of dust from the calcite or maybe the RN.

If it does not clear up soon, I have to turn off my second pump.
I check your profile at rc nice pic. Boomer is something else at rc.

[Bill S]

I think the problem with too much flow is that you need some exposure time to within your carbon system. The single most critical part of the process is oxygenation.

In my case, it worked too well. Even with 1 torpedo on my 215, it worked too well. For a FO tank, I wouldn't hesitate.

[ErikH]

Everything looks great Cory! I wish I could get my corals to grow away from the rocks! They cower to the LIGHT! :shades:

[CoryDude]

I'm trying to talk my wife into letting me get a Canon T1i so I can shoot HD video and get better quality pics. She likes to take pics of all our kid and nature settings. So I'm playing that angle right now. Wish me luck!:innocent2:

[Elijaher]

Anybody use sea lab 28 with hiatt systems?

[CaptainGreg]

Anybody use sea lab 28 with hiatt systems?
Do not use it... It just release so much junk into your tank you get problem with algae. It is too expensive also.

[CaptainGreg]

I think the problem with too much flow is that you need some exposure time to within your carbon system. The single most critical part of the process is oxygenation.

In my case, it worked too well. Even with 1 torpedo on my 215, it worked too well. For a FO tank, I wouldn't hesitate.
I had red slime on my rocks and gravel and not it just a white film and falling away from the rock and gravel. They are all dead. My coral seem to enjoy the cloudy water. They seem to be eating the stuff. I think it is RN bacteria. They grow on my rock and tank glass. I test the water and the alk/cal is a little low. I going to let it run like this for a few days to make sure the red slime bacteria are all gone then turn off the second pump.

My skimmer is full of this stuff and it is not dust. My skimmer is working overtime. I get a full cup of white stuff every day.

[CaptainGreg]

I backed off the pump and the water clear up in less than 10 min. The water is clear. There is still a small patch of red slime algae in the area where there is no current to deposit the RN bacteria. I am going to run the water more than 10x at night and bring it back to 10X when the light is on.

I never see my coral look so good in a long time. I am going to add more coral and fish in a few days to increase the bioload.

[Elijaher]

Do you have your return above or under the water?

[CaptainGreg]

Do you have your return above or under the water?



I decided to have the water return in the water... I have my power head pointed up....

No problem with the CO2 or PH...My friend also doing the same with the return in the water and the Power heads pointing up...He have been doing that for about a year and everything look great, but he did not do More than 10X water rate.

[Elijaher]

I pretty much doing the same thing.Have any pic of your return and powerhead?

[CaptainGreg]

I am new to this and I am not sure how to attach picture. The attach picture on the message ask for my URL... Is that my file path to my local machine?

[CaptainGreg]

I will try to put the picture to my album...

I just realize my carbon tube design picture was not saved on my album.. I just added again.

[CaptainGreg]

One of our Board Members (bstreep) was running more than 10X on his tank (I believe). His tank actually became too sterile using the Hiatt. He has a few posts on RC on some older threads on RC regarding his Hiatt experience.

From what Snake has explained, the bacteria settle everywhere in the tank, not just in the carbon tube. They will not be ejected out of the tube with flows in excess of 10X.

The whole point to the required flow rate, is that it helps increase over all oxygen content of the water to assist with the metabolic rate and reproduction of the bacteria (this is per Mr. Hiatt not me).

That could be one reason Bill had longterm problems with his filter system.
You are correct on the RN getting all over the tank. It cover everything. It kill all the algae, but my coral is doing great. Still have some red slime in one spot where there is almost no flow. The brown Algae on the power head is dying but not as bad as before.

[CaptainGreg]

I check your profile at rc nice pic. Boomer is something else at rc.
Yes you are correct about Boomer...

He is good, but everything changes with time and new thing come and goes and some are good and some are bad... In this hobby, I keep an open mind... Simulate nature is hard...
We need people like Boomer to keep some of the vendor in line. Like everything out there..Buyer Beware. I just don't like being rip off...that why it is great that we have these post where we can share our finding about new product and methods.

[Elijaher]

True on that I try biodigest, mb7, vinegar, vodka, sugar, AA,etc with hiatt systems. RN maybe the best oxygen driven bacteria out their. But reef tanks need a good low oxygen bacteria also.

[CoryDude]

I don't post on RC because many people can be very rude there. I still ask that if anyone has a different opinion on this product to please speak up.

But, we try to remain pretty civil here and not to attack people for their opinions and experiences.

[Elijaher]

Funny that one thing I like about RC it's ok to be rube but have facts behind it.
1. protein skimmer does not remove all protein or waste from the water only 30% at a time, and that can take days to weeks on that 30%. How us reefer going to deal with the other 70%.

[CoryDude]

Elijaher,

You can be rude here, but it won't win you too many fans or comments. I've never had a problem with different opinions, just not personal attacks.

Where are you getting this info on the skimmer removal percentages? Isn't that why we get skimmers that are overrated for our systems, to deal with larger amounts of waste removal.

[CoryDude]

Elijaher, how many pounds of TBPC do you use on your setup. Did you go with the gallons X .1667, or did you use even less because of your coral setup?

[CaptainGreg]

All the read slime bateria are dead in my tank... I backed of my water to arround 10X.. The water is crystal clear in about 30 min... I just emply a full skimmer cup of RN Bacteria..(It is white and slimmy).... I am wondering if I can take the stuff and mix it with brand flakes and let it dry to make RN like that sold by Hiatt..

I am wondering what am I to do with the white dust/bacteria in my tank? It is every where.

[CaptainGreg]

I gave up trying to convince other about RN and Carbon. I am looking to learn and get more info and stat from other RN and carbon user to improve my tank.

After tax season, I am going to help a friend to put together a 75g close loop RN/Carbon with the my carbon tube design. I am going to save him some money by taking the RN from my tank to populate his tank.

The only thing my friend need to by to do his filter system is 10lb of tribase carbon, PVC plumbing goods, and maybe a skimmer.

[Elijaher]

I use about 20 pounds of TBPC. I didn't mean to make any personal attack on that statement on protein skimmer. I'm not making up a story also. I find protein skimmer the best exportor for reef keeping.

[CoryDude]

Elijaher,

I never saw your statement as an attack. I was just speaking that generally we (members of this club) try to a little civil than you'll find on RC. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I'm very glad you and CaptainGreg have found this discussion and I/we welcome any input you can add to this forum. I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with you on the skimmer export %.

I was just curious as to the source of the info. I tried to run my Hiatt without a skimmer for a while. But, I saw an increase in NO3 and nuisance algae, so I added it back to the system. Currently I use aprox 7lbs of carbon, a Euroreef skimmer, and rowaphos for filtration.

[Elijaher]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2 (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2) Here the link on the subject on protein skimmer. It's last two paragraph before conclusion.

[CaptainGreg]

Elijaher,

I never saw your statement as an attack. I was just speaking that generally we (members of this club) try to a little civil than you'll find on RC. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I'm very glad you and CaptainGreg have found this discussion and I/we welcome any input you can add to this forum. I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with you on the skimmer export %.

I was just curious as to the source of the info. I tried to run my Hiatt without a skimmer for a while. But, I saw an increase in NO3 and nuisance algae, so I added it back to the system. Currently I use aprox 7lbs of carbon, a Euroreef skimmer, and rowaphos for filtration.
I also have GHA growing in my tank using with Hiatt system. I have turbo 1000 skimmer and also use phospate removal media, but with very little luck. I check my make up water and it show very low desolve minnerals. I am about to take a few rock out and scrub them for this week water change.

This system was operating without Hiatt for two years before I add Hiatt system. I did clean this tank with large water changes and gravel cleaning before I added Hiatt. The tank does look better with Hiatt system added, but GHA does not seem to go away even with large water changes. I ran Hiatt on this tank for 1 year now and I am about to take the carbon out and do carbon cleaning and then added one pound of fresh carbon and reload it with some RN.
My other tanks that started and operated on Hiatt system run with out any GHA problem. Could it be that Phospate take time to be flush out of my rock and gravel?

Would it does any good to add another tank of carbon to the system?

If any one using Hiatt system have any suggestion to help get rid of GHA would be appreciated.

[CoryDude]

CaptainGreg,

Are testing nitrate levels and phosphate levels in your tank? Those were the main things fueling what little algae I had. I do know that the new carbon will adds some phosphate to the system.

From what I've experienced, flow rate is one of the most important things for this system. Too low and you won't get the expected results.

Are you getting the needed flow through your carbon canister? You need to actually measure the flow going through the filter. Don't just go by what the pump says, as the pump companies inflate their flow rate specs.

[Elijaher]

Are you using any ph rocks.

[CaptainGreg]

CaptainGreg,

Are testing nitrate levels and phosphate levels in your tank? Those were the main things fueling what little algae I had. I do know that the new carbon will adds some phosphate to the system.

From what I've experienced, flow rate is one of the most important things for this system. Too low and you won't get the expected results.

Are you getting the needed flow through your carbon canister? You need to actually measure the flow going through the filter. Don't just go by what the pump says, as the pump companies inflate their flow rate specs.
You might be right about the flow rate. It is slower than the other tanks. I have to make some change to my configuration when I clean the carbon this weekend. I think I can get it to go more than 10X rate. I do need that machenical pre filter. A non metal use pool filter might do the trick.

I also have calcite canisters in the system. It does not preform as suggest by Hiatt. Again it could be flow rate or it is just that junk...

I could not measure any N or P in my system. Maybe my test kit does not go that low.

My other tanks that run at a rate over 10X with one 4000 g/h pump and when I turn on the second pump the water cloud up with bacteria in about 10 min. I have some red slime before and RN Kill them... Now I only have some spot where there are no low that the red slime trying to make a come back. I turn my second pump on this evening and I should see some result tomorrow. I also add more curcluation to the spot where the red slime are growing.

I am hoping with the new config this problem tank should behave the same as the other two.

[Elijaher]

You hiatt user maybe on to something cause one more part of this systems is metal gone which removes phosphate, heavy metal, and tds from water.

[CaptainGreg]

You hiatt user maybe on to something cause one more part of this systems is metal gone which removes phosphate, heavy metal, and tds from water.
I have been using metal gone and it is not it job as expected. I am in the process of getting some Ferric Oxide from bulk reef supply and put it in my home made reactor, but I am thinking I might have to hold off becasue I might have High Phospate leaching back into the water from the rock. The rocks in this system have been use in other systems before with standar filtration for a total of 10 years. It might have high level of accumulated phospate and it take time to work it self out. I think I will try greater 10X flow over the carbon and maybe find some source of nitrate to feed the bacteria. Hiatt talk about a 4 to 1 ratio of N to P being cosume by the RN bacteria. I hope that is true. I am wondering if feeding these bacteria with some sort of sugar/carbon base food (sugar water or alcohol) without phospate to increase it activity.

That bring up another question.... Has any one does this before, using Hiatt and vodka/sugar water dosing together with supper high flow?

[CoryDude]

I have been using metal gone and it is not it job as expected. I am in the process of getting some Ferric Oxide from bulk reef supply and put it in my home made reactor, but I am thinking I might have to hold off becasue I might have High Phospate leaching back into the water from the rock. The rocks in this system have been use in other systems before with standar filtration for a total of 10 years. It might have high level of accumulated phospate and it take time to work it self out. I think I will try greater 10X flow over the carbon and maybe find some source of nitrate to feed the bacteria. Hiatt talk about a 4 to 1 ratio of N to P being cosume by the RN bacteria. I hope that is true. I am wondering if feeding these bacteria with some sort of sugar/carbon base food (sugar water or alcohol) without phospate to increase it activity.

That bring up another question.... Has any one does this before, using Hiatt and vodka/sugar water dosing together with supper high flow?

You may want to email Snake to ask him about this. One of our BOD members used this system and he had problem when the filter quit working. Hiatt recommended adding potassium to the tank (I believe....Correct on this Bill if I'm wrong).

From what I understand, and this could be wrong, but the bacteria use the carbon as a "home" so to speak. They actually feed on the nitrogen compounds in the water. So you need some nutrients for the system to really work. I was using the Zeo method when I started the hiatt last year. I used biofuel and the hiatt filter for about 2 weeks together, and didn't see any results. But, that could be attributed to other factors.

[CaptainGreg]

You may want to email Snake to ask him about this. One of our BOD members used this system and he had problem when the filter quit working. Hiatt recommended adding potassium to the tank (I believe....Correct on this Bill if I'm wrong).

From what I understand, and this could be wrong, but the bacteria use the carbon as a "home" so to speak. They actually feed on the nitrogen compounds in the water. So you need some nutrients for the system to really work. I was using the Zeo method when I started the hiatt last year. I used biofuel and the hiatt filter for about 2 weeks together, and didn't see any results. But, that could be attributed to other factors.
I thought that RN take up Desolve organic carbon from the water where the organic stuff contain N,C,P from food or fish poo. We supply it with Oxygen so it can process the desolve organic. If we supply it with C in organic form with out N and P then it will pull the N and P from the water and that how it transport the N and P out of the water.

Since we put food in and the bacteria consume it, but it convert a ratio of 4N to 1P then we better have more N to transport the extra P in our tank and if we just supply it with C as fuel and N and O can come from the air. Then RN can get the extra P out out of the system. So if carbon from alcohol contain little or no Phospate then we can dose it to help RN remove phospate. I also think that the RN get it carbon from some where other than from the water. If the tribase some how contain trace level of consumeable carbon, then in that case we might not need to add carbon. All we need is to increase air exchange to bring in more O and N.

I hope you can see my logic. I like to find out what really happen in the Hiatt system.

[Elijaher]

What really catch my eyes with RN said that it eat protein. RN needs lots of oxygen more then all livestock combine.

[Bill S]

Cory, I added phosphate. Not potassium. I wouldn't recommend it unless Snake tells you to...

[Elijaher]

That new add phosphate. Is their a reason for that?

[CoryDude]

I think what we're discussing here is the exact reason why this method has not gained more popularity. The only person who knows exactly how this bacteria method works, isn't saying anything.

Snake is a very nice man, and a little too thorough, but he has always been very coy when I've asked him for specifics. The result is what you see here...a lot of theories on how his system works, but nothing concrete.

I emailed Mr. Hiatt this link, so hopefully he'll be able to answer some questions for us.

[Elijaher]

Thanks I find it.

[CoryDude]

6 month review:

Is this filter all it's advertised to be? I'll take the easy way out and say yes and no.

Did it eliminate the need for skimming and other types of filtration like a gfo reactor? No. Going skimmerless resulted in increased algae, most noticeably hair algae and a brown slime algae. In fact, this bacteria system seems to have improved skimming. The skimmate is very dark and smelly compared to the pre-hiatt days.

As far as the hiatt's ability to remove phosphate, I can't substantiate that. Seachem test kit shows a pretty constant level of .05 mg/L. I've noticed a slight increase in a brown dusty algae on the glass when I quit using a gfo reactor. So to play it safe, I run a combo of rowaphos and phosban.

But, each time you add hiatt's carbon, it releases a good amount of po4. My kit showed aprox .3 mg/L after recently changing out some of my carbon.

Does this system reduce nitrates and improve water quality. Yes, yes, yes! NO3 stays around 2-5 mg/L. The tank water is crystal clear, and the fish are very healthy. If I ever run a fowlr, I will definitely use this filter since it can handle heavy amounts of feeding w/o nutrient accumulation.

What about the corals? Other than a red bug infestation that has slowed growth on a few of the sticks, everything looks great. I've had no sps losses (knock on wood) since I've started this review. Color colors lightened up once the nutrient levels came down, especially the blue ones. Most of the corals show good polyp extension day/night.

Lastly, this filter has saved me money on salt (sorry Gabe). My monthly water change is about 40% instead of 75% since I'm not exporting anywhere near the amount of nutrients that I was before. I can actually go a few months w/o buying a new salt bucket.

Oh, can't forget Snake. He's been very helpful during this startup. He provides excellent support of this product. He's a bit of a salesman, but he's always helpful. He's even made follow up calls to check on the progress.

Overall I'd give this filter 2 thumbs and 2 big toes up. It's very simple to maintain and does most of what is promised, which as we know is this hobby, is all you can ask for sometimes.

[CaptainGreg]

6 month review:

Is this filter all it's advertised to be? I'll take the easy way out and say yes and no.

Did it eliminate the need for skimming and other types of filtration like a gfo reactor? No. Going skimmerless resulted in increased algae, most noticeably hair algae and a brown slime algae. In fact, this bacteria system seems to have improved skimming. The skimmate is very dark and smelly compared to the pre-hiatt days.

As far as the hiatt's ability to remove phosphate, I can't substantiate that. Seachem test kit shows a pretty constant level of .05 mg/L. I've noticed a slight increase in a brown dusty algae on the glass when I quit using a gfo reactor. So to play it safe, I run a combo of rowaphos and phosban.

But, each time you add hiatt's carbon, it releases a good amount of po4. My kit showed aprox .3 mg/L after recently changing out some of my carbon.

Does this system reduce nitrates and improve water quality. Yes, yes, yes! NO3 stays around 2-5 mg/L. The tank water is crystal clear, and the fish are very healthy. If I ever run a fowlr, I will definitely use this filter since it can handle heavy amounts of feeding w/o nutrient accumulation.

What about the corals? Other than a red bug infestation that has slowed growth on a few of the sticks, everything looks great. I've had no sps losses (knock on wood) since I've started this review. Color colors lightened up once the nutrient levels came down, especially the blue ones. Most of the corals show good polyp extension day/night.

Lastly, this filter has saved me money on salt (sorry Gabe). My monthly water change is about 40% instead of 75% since I'm not exporting anywhere near the amount of nutrients that I was before. I can actually go a few months w/o buying a new salt bucket.

Oh, can't forget Snake. He's been very helpful during this startup. He provides excellent support of this product. He's a bit of a salesman, but he's always helpful. He's even made follow up calls to check on the progress.

Overall I'd give this filter 2 thumbs and 2 big toes up. It's very simple to maintain and does most of what is promised, which as we know is this hobby, is all you can ask for sometimes.


My one year report on Hiatt on tank > 150 to 250 gal

Everything is the same with Cory... Need the skimming to remove bacteria from the water col. It is a good way to transport the solids from water which reduce water changes.

System started using hiatt from the beginning:

It work better than I expected. No algae... Only a few brown one on the power head where fishes trying to get at it. Over all coral grow like mad and songe are growing also. Water is clean ... One problem is trying to keep water rate high. Back flush is a must and done every two or three weeks to keep the water flowing over 10X.... At one year mark... Remove the carbon tube and clean the carbon and added one pound of new carbon and more bateria. Cheap up keep. (What I found in the carbon tube during cleaning are large masses of bacteria growing in the tube. Need strong back flush to clear it out else clean the tube every six months.)

Hiatt system on old tank with hair algae using conventional system sump and skimmer etc..:

Water quality increase No more red slime algae... Green Hair algae receided. Only afew spot still have hair algae where I was not able to get to. (Cleaning Involve physical removal of algae and cleaning off rock..., but this method been done before and algae alway come back, but not this time)
Hard and soft coral grow like mad. God some sickly coral from other places and as soon as it is place in the tank the coral start to grow. It grow not just surviving.

Skimming is better...

Cleaning the carbon tube have the same finding.

Again keep greater than 10X flow is hard.

Carbon cleaning should be done every six months if back flush is not doing it job.

*** No need for return to be on top of the tank surface if using reef ready tank with sump and skimmer.

Good product....

[CaptainGreg]

One more thing... I might have to reconfigure my filter to take water from the sump and return will be return to the sump also. That way I will reduce the splash in the main tank. I am going to hook up a separate pump to take the water from the sump and into the main tank. I think Cory did this to his system. Also the bacteira poo and other product does not get into the main tank where I can save time on maint with less gravel vac to the main tank.

[CoryDude]

I hate using the extra mag pump and the heat it creates, but I won't put my torpedo back on the main return line. I like having the separate loop in the sump.

[Elijaher]

Those are some good review.

[CaptainGreg]

I hate using the extra mag pump and the heat it creates, but I won't put my torpedo back on the main return line. I like having the separate loop in the sump.

It is a good Idea to keep all the filtration stuff separate from the main tank. I am going to make plan to do that to all my system.

I clean the spong filter in my sump last night and boy the amount of bacteria growing in the sponge was crazy. I rinse the sponge and the water was kind of yellow off white. I need to find a way to vac up all the dust from my sump.

[CaptainGreg]

One of my tank, that used to have problem with algae now no more algae, but the sps is starting to receading from the bases.... I am not sure if it is hiatt system causing it, Water is good LPS and soft are doing great.

I am going to make some water change and see if that fix it... Else I have to back off the on Hiatt or feed more to add more nutrient in the water.

If any have advice on this please let me know....

[Bill S]

Greg, this was my experience with the Hiatt, and why I discontinued it.

[CaptainGreg]

I am going to try to feed the fish more and see if I can get enough nutrient in it to keep the coral alive.

[CoryDude]

How much are you feeding now? My weekly feedings are: 1 cube each early evening for the fish, and a night feeding for the corals every 3 days. So far I keep the nitrate levels at 5mg/L and everything looks good, with very little nuisance algae growth.

When I stayed with my old feeding regimen of 1 cube every other day, the NO3 dropped to near 0. Coral growth slowed and some showed recession in various areas.

[Europhyllia]

How small are your systems?
I feed corals and fish anywhere from 3-6 cubes PER DAY.

[CoryDude]

90g with 7 fish: 2X chromis, coral beauty, royal gramma, mystery wrasse, mandarin, and blenny)

Only 5 eat the food I add. The mandarin and the blenny graze on the liverocks. My tank tends to run high on nutrients because I suspect my lr and absorbed a lot of it over the years. The whole cat waste thing didn't help either.

I expiremented with doubling the daily feedings, but the fish didn't seem any different (except a lot fatter). I stopped because I noticed a little extra algae on the glass and plastic parts in the tank.

[CaptainGreg]

I increase feeding the fish with flakes daily and cubes every other day for fish and coral and also large crills for the anmones... Snake said I have too much carbon. He wants me to take out 4 lb of it... I will try it this weekend to take the carbon out. I am thinking going sump free and remove the skimmer... and replace it with the hayward swimming pool machenical filter...

I report back with more info.

[CaptainGreg]

Snake also said that to make sure to keep carbon clean so that anarobic bacteria does not attack it and strip the carbon and expose more carbon surface are so that the carbon will take up more nutrient... Not sure it is true or not, but everytime I back flush the system I get so some fine carbon dust from the flush.... I guess his message is to keep the carbon clean and in the correct amount for the purpose.

[CoryDude]

I think I'm starting to experience the same problem as Bill and CaptGreg had. It's been over a week and I have not cleaned the glass. There is still some algae growth on the rocks (just a few tufts here and there), but little on the glass. Some of the sps colonies/frags have shown various areas of tissue recession for the last month and a half. SPS growth has slowed also.

I did recently switch to Tropic Marin Bioactif salt, and I'm wondering if there's something in there that's making the Hiatt bacteria go crazy.

So far I'm trying the following changes:
- Doubled the tank's daily feedings.
- Feeding reef plankton at night 3 times a week.
- Removed 2 lbs of carbon
- Disconnected the calcium reactor because of recent alk swings and started using 2 part cal/alk dosing
- Also dose kalkwaser 2 nights a week to help w/ph

I'm hoping the increased nutrients from the extra feedings and stabilizing the total alk will stop the tissue recession. So far all affected corals have recovered or are in the process of healing. No losses yet. If this problem continues, I may look at disconnecting the hiatt.

[CaptainGreg]

Algae are all gone. Fishes are doing great, LPS and Soft are doing well. SPS are not growing as fast as it used to be. I have swing in alk also. Have turn off the skimmer, increase feeding, and is planning to throwing those sea lab blocks to see if it provide enought minneral for the coral.

I have also cut back the carbon.

Snake have to figure out how to solve this problem. I emailed with him and the want me to remove more carbon. He said I have too much carbon.

I will report back if I can figure out the solution.

One more thing.... I think there might be a key minneral element that is being depleted from the water. I have done large water change and it seem to help some.

[CoryDude]

Hi CaptainGreg. That's a good idea on the mineral depletion. My tank and corals have looked a lot better since I've gone to regular 10% weekly water changes.

[Mike]

Hey Cory,

We bought the Hiatt filter from Eve and are clueless. It came with a bunch of carbon, which I am not sure if is the tribase or not. I also have questions about the RN Bacteria stuff, where to get and how to use etc? If you were available we might like to talk sometime by phone or in person for a consult. No huge hurry, trying to learn and see what I would need to use it.

Thanks- Mike & Kristy

[CoryDude]

Glad to help. I'd love to stop by and check out yalls new tanks/setups sometime. I'm available this weekend if you'd like.

[Elijaher]

I wad doing a little reading on ozone. What you reefer think on it with Hiatt system?

[CoryDude]

Because ozone can react with some bacteria, I'd treat it like a UV filter and not use it on a hiatt. But, I don't have experience using ozone, so I'm just guessing on this.

[CaptainGreg]

Do not use it... It just release so much junk into your tank you get problem with algae. It is too expensive also.


I take my previous comment back.....After having Hiatt system running at max capacity... I found that I need more minnerals of all sort....that a regular cal/mag/alk dosing does not do it.... i am using the sea lab block and very happy with the result.

By the way, the Hiatt PH rock is Junk.....

[ColaAddict]

I'm doing research on Hiatt system and I was reading through this thread. Why do you think that the pH rock is junk? Also, I want to set up a Nano with Hiatt. Do you guys think it's really necessary to have the outflow above water? Has anyone have success running outflow underwater?

[CoryDude]

In theory, you're producing excess co2 as the bacteria consume the organics and therefore lowering the ph. The PH rock is supposed to keep your ph from dipping down too low. From my experience, if you're dosing 2 part calc/alk or dripping kalk then the rock isn't needed.

The main reason Snake wants the returns above water is to maintain high oxyen levels through surface agitation. This is supposed to help the bacteria since they are aerobic and could in theory use all of the available o2 up and kill your fish.

Personally, I never had any real problems when the returns were underwater, but the system seemed to work better when there was some splashing above the water line. I opted to go half way and have the returns placed just at the water line so that there was some surface agitation, but no splashing.

[CoryDude]

Just a note, I did take my Hiatt offline. Like a lot of others, I was having problems with they system being too clean. Macro algae wouldn't grow and the sps corals started to look pale.

[ColaAddict]

Does anyone have any experience on just curing dead rock with the RN bacteria, instead of using the Tri-Carbon. I'm not interested on keeping SPS, so I want to give it a try. I want to know if I can cycle my new tank without the Tri-Carbon. Any advice would be apreciated.
CoryDude, hello. Doesn't the RN bacteria already populated youre rocks, how long did it take to normalize your tank again after you stopped using the torpedo?

[CoryDude]

Actually you're right about the bacteria colonizing everywhere in the tank. I'm still seeing some side effects. My cheato barely grows which leads me to believe that the organic content is still low, despite the fact that I feed every day and twice a week at night. The skimmate from my skimmer is also still very dark and smelly, which is a by-product from bacteria systems (pellet users have the same experience). So the bacteria are still in there and the torpedo was turned off almost a month ago.

With a smaller setup like yours you'd probably get by with seeding the system with a bottle of bacteria. The rock and substrate should provide adequate space for the bacteria to grow. You could even add a small bag of carbon or Chemi-Pure Elite if you think you need more bacteria. Just make sure you place the carbon where it can get adequate flow.

[ColaAddict]

thanks for the advise Cory. One more thing, can I also do a deep sand bed with the hiatt system, or is DSB not necessary or will not be effective, because the aerobic bacteria will outcompete the anaerobes for food?

[CoryDude]

thanks for the advise Cory. One more thing, can I also do a deep sand bed with the hiatt system, or is DSB not necessary or will not be effective, because the aerobic bacteria will outcompete the anaerobes for food?

I don't see why you couldn't go with one, but it would be more for looks than functionality. For a while, I was using a sulphur denitrator, which uses the same anerobic bacteria as a dsb, and the hiatt. But, I could take either one off line and never see a difference in the tank.

[CaptainGreg]

I'm doing research on Hiatt system and I was reading through this thread. Why do you think that the pH rock is junk? Also, I want to set up a Nano with Hiatt. Do you guys think it's really necessary to have the outflow above water? Has anyone have success running outflow underwater?

The water flowing out of the filter does not have low enough PH to desolve it. It is a type of marble and it take PH less than seven to desolve it. The gravel was too expensive and it require more pump power to have it go through gravel container.

I use the Sea lab block to supplement cal and other trace element.

I do not have the out put above the water. I have it under the water, but make sure you have enough surface water egitation for air exchange.

[StevenSeas]

I believe another reason for the output to be above water and agitating the surface as much as possible is due to yes the low DO levels and the high dissolved CO2 levels.

However, it goes beyond this and if you have a high dissolved CO2 content then your pH will be lower. The higher the beginning pH is (>8.3) the more that it drives
this reaction causing the pH to go lower.

Also as far as the low DO and high dissolved CO2 content goes it important to help mitigate this anyways possible. This is because CO2 is 32x more soluble than O2 in water, and 02 is 2x more soluble than N2!!! This means that you have are going to have a more difficult time getting the CO2 out and O2 in. On top of that water can only hold so much stuff and since we are already at 35ppt salinty and about 78-80*F that means a total of 6.25ppm O2 can be in saturated tank water. And at and below 5.0 ppm there has been seen to be a decrease in feeding response and activity level of fish.

Not to scare you off at all but that is why I believe that it is recommended that you have the output above water level to help get as much surface area of the effluent water exposed to normal air to get as much O2 in and CO2 out. If done properly as many people have done before t shouldn't be an issue.

[StevenSeas]

Dont mind me I have just been getting no sleep for the past few days studying for this stupid Biology of Fishes exam and am just finally happy that I can put it all together and in a real world situation to boot.

[ColaAddict]

but if I just let the RN bacteria populate the live rock and sand in the main tank of my Nano, won't the water be aerated when it flows through my overflow? I think that what the Hiatt people use are torpedos where the bacterial reaction happens in the torpedo and the water needs to be oxygenated after it comes out of the torpedo. isn't that what happens when water leaves my display and flows out of the overflow?

[StevenSeas]

Yes it should get adequately aerated when going through an overflow or the diff levels off a sump or out the return. The main problem I thought of/was adressing was if the torpedo had a designated sole purpose pump and return line both of which were under the surface. If this was the case then at night you could run into problems with low DO. This is because the photosynthetic algae that produces O2 during the day actually respirates and uses up O2 at night thus possibly putting your tank into a low DO situation if the returns weren't adequatley oxygenated.

[CoryDude]

I had the torpedo on a dedicated loop in the sump and tried various layouts to minimize noise and splashing. I ran the filter with the return underwater and never had a problem with low oxygen levels. However, my system wasn't a nano either.

From speaking with Bill (aka Snake) the main factor for keeping the returns above the water and providing a high flow rate is to keep the DO levels as high as possible (almost to the point of supersaturation) and increase the rate at which the RN Bacteria function.

[ColaAddict]

So, do you guys recomend the Hiatt, say, if I'm just planning on growing softies and fish in my nano? Or does it pose more problems in the long run due to depletion of nutrients?

[Bill S]

If I had a FO or Fish + softies, I'd go with a Hiatt again. I still have one torpedo, just in case I go back that way.

[CoryDude]

If I had a FO or Fish + softies, I'd go with a Hiatt again. I still have one torpedo, just in case I go back that way.

Same reason I'm keeping mine Bill. I may do a fowlr down the road and the Hiatt would be perfect for it.

[ColaAddict]

Great Info guys, thanks!

[Tsiklop]

Hello,
I decided to ask this question here, because was thinking to start my tank with Hiatt filtration. I am going to build fish only tank, saltwater. I got this very tall tank, it is 48x48x12, and it has just six holes, openings on top, and I don't want to drill it. So I was thinking to build closed filtration, Hiatt type. It is 150 gal, and has half dome, facing room, tank itself in garage. From your experience, you think I need 25lbl TBPC, or you recommend less ? Do you think it is good idea ?
Sorry, may be too much questions ?
Thank you.

[ColaAddict]

Has anybody who used the Hiatt system get a bad infection from this? I'm just wondering, because I believe they use a type of Pseudomonas bacteria (correct me if I'm wrong on the name). I believe Pseudomonas is one of the bacteria often being treated on people in the hospital. I'm just wondering how the people who used it and had their body parts in the tank are doing. Let me know because I want to try this out.

[CoryDude]

Hello,
I decided to ask this question here, because was thinking to start my tank with Hiatt filtration. I am going to build fish only tank, saltwater. I got this very tall tank, it is 48x48x12, and it has just six holes, openings on top, and I don't want to drill it. So I was thinking to build closed filtration, Hiatt type. It is 150 gal, and has half dome, facing room, tank itself in garage. From your experience, you think I need 25lbl TBPC, or you recommend less ? Do you think it is good idea ?
Sorry, may be too much questions ?
Thank you.

Sorry, I didn't see this post. That is an awesome tank design. It's so different. For a fish only, I would use the Hiatt. Are you going to be using the torpedo canisters? Personally, I'd try just one that's filled up completely (the reg size cannisters hold about 12lbs) and see if that's enough. I had the system on a 120 gallon reef, which I fed pretty heavily, and I only used about 5lbs of carbon.



Has anybody who used the Hiatt system get a bad infection from this? I'm just wondering, because I believe they use a type of Pseudomonas bacteria (correct me if I'm wrong on the name). I believe Pseudomonas is one of the bacteria often being treated on people in the hospital. I'm just wondering how the people who used it and had their body parts in the tank are doing. Let me know because I want to try this out.

I've had open wounds before while sticking my hand in the carbon bed and never had any infections. For the definitive answer, you may want to email the owner @ snake @ hdltd.com (of course delete the spaces).

[Richard]

Has anybody who used the Hiatt system get a bad infection from this? I'm just wondering, because I believe they use a type of Pseudomonas bacteria (correct me if I'm wrong on the name). I believe Pseudomonas is one of the bacteria often being treated on people in the hospital. I'm just wondering how the people who used it and had their body parts in the tank are doing. Let me know because I want to try this out.

Snake is using mosty bacillus species not pseudomonas. Pseudomonas is a huge genus though so I'm sure there are plenty of species which are non infectious. I know Snake has told me that there are no infectious bacteria species in his RN bacteria. I'm pretty sure the EPA wouldn't allow the use of infectious bacteria in any of the bacterial aquarium products.

Here's a link to his patent info which lists the various species he uses...
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=3&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&S1=(tri-base+AND+carbon)&OS=tri-base+and+carbon&RS=(tri-base+AND+carbon