Getting shock big time HELP PLs!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moe]

Over this weekend I lost most of my fish, because of a mishap. Needless to say when I was doing a water change I felt pulses. I ignored them and thought nothing.

I continue and put my hand on the ladder and got shock really bad.

At that point I decided to stop what I was doing. Next couple of days I try trouble shooting and try to change some stuff around and unplug certain things to see if it help.

Today I had the time to work on my tank again, and move some more thing around. And went working on my fuge. As I finish cleaning the skimmer I plug it in. I was putting it in place and got shock bad. I thought it was the skimmer. I unplug it and touch the running water and again SHOCK!!!!!!!!!

What is going ON??????

Can anyone help trouble shoot this????????????

does anyone would like to take a look and get shock???????

any help will be appreciated thanks.

[JimD]

moe, its most likely a powerhead, heater or your lights. Try unplugging things one at a time until you find out whats causing the shock. The best way to test is with a volt meter set on AC, test until the voltage drops to its minimum, red lead in the water, black lead to AC ground. This is how Ive always done it...

[moe]

Thanks a bunch to Gabe, and Jim D for calling. turns out that my MAX 1800 is the cause of the problem.

I'll see if I hit u up later Gabe.

And Jim D thanks for the advice, well both of you gabe and jim.

The colors of my hands are slowing coming back from blackish purple to normal.

[Big_Pun]

I had a korilia leak alot of voltage from a cracked housing

[moe]

I had a korilia leak alot of voltage from a cracked housing

how bad were the shocks? :what_smile:

[sampsonndelila]

Did you know passing electricity through salt water makes bleach? I didn't believe it either but I looked it up.

[rabadanmarco]

when i used to work at alamo aquatics this happend in the freshwater alot....didnt really hurt as much as just scared the crap out of me...and i pulled my hand out fast and hit my hand on the top aquarium...that hurt more

[Bill S]

A grounding probe will keep you from killing yourself. As well, ALL of your outlets - except MAYBE MH ballasts - should be GFCI protected. They are cheap life insurance.

BTW, all submersible pumps give off some voltage in the water - it's the nature of magnets rotating at high speed.

[corkyGramma]

Wow. You learn something everyday ;)

[corkyGramma]

I had a korilia leak alot of voltage from a cracked housing
When that happens, is it best to trash the pump it or can the koralia be fixed?

[moe]

well what I learn is that....If your looking for an internal pump, and find one and it's use externally. As good as the price or the offer don't bye it for use as an internal pump.

That should of told me something even if was submergible and being use external.

[Bill S]

Depends whether or not you value your life and that of your livestock over a pump...

Seriously, no. Throw it away.

[JimD]

Save the impeller and the housing, someone else might be able to use them in the future.

[Bill S]

Good point, Jim. They are ALWAYS in demand. I always forget...

[CoryDude]

BTW, all submersible pumps give off some voltage in the water - it's the nature of magnets rotating at high speed.

Aren't we talking mV or (mu)uV amounts?

That's also why you have magnetic fields around electrical cords.

[Bill S]

Actually, it's quite surprising how much voltage they put out - enough to feel it! Before I got a grounding probe, I tried to track down the leak. Turns out each pump was putting it out. With all of the mag pumps I had, it was enough to feel.

[cbianco]

How can we measure stray voltage in our aquarium, WITHOUT putting our hand in it (i.e. voltage meter, etc...)? It seems primitive and dangerous to test our water with our body rather than a device that was meant for testing electrical voltage.

Christopher

[Big_Pun]

When that happens, is it best to trash the pump it or can the koralia be fixed?
sorry it took so long but i trashed it, no way or want to chance it,

[Bill S]

How can we measure stray voltage in our aquarium, WITHOUT putting our hand in it (i.e. voltage meter, etc...)? It seems primitive and dangerous to test our water with our body rather than a device that was meant for testing electrical voltage.

Christopher

Using a Voltage Meter. One end of the probe into the water, the other to the ground on a plug.

[Henny]

well what I learn is that....If your looking for an internal pump, and find one and it's use externally. As good as the price or the offer don't bye it for use as an internal pump.

That should of told me something even if was submersible and being use external.

Is this the Mag 18 that I sold you earlier this year? Because if it is I had know idea that it leaked voltage. :confused: I used it externally because at the time I didn't have a true external pump. I only sold it because I went back to my mag 12 that I originally had on the tank. In addition I only sold the Mag 18 for what I paid for it. I'm sorry if this is the case but I did not intentionally sell you a bad pump. I would've just scraped it for parts if that was the case.

[Bill S]

IMHO, Mag pumps should not be run external - they heat up too much...

[Henny]

IMHO, Mag pumps should not be run external - they heat up too much...

Thanks for the advice.

I'm still learning a lot about this hobby and have been using mag pumps externally since day 1 without any problems. Except my current one (MAG 12) started tripping my portable GFCI outlet one day. I never put two and two together and I'm still using it. I just plugged it into a different outlet. I believe they are even advertised as capable of being run internal or external. But I will be changing to a true external once I find the time to re-plumb it the way I want.

[cbianco]

Using a Voltage Meter. One end of the probe into the water, the other to the ground on a plug.

I have heard that all electrical devices give off some sort of stray voltage.

Is there a number that is acceptable?

Christopher

[aggman]

you know i have this happening in my tank. but i only get shocked when i don't have shoes on. and this is a constant thing, everyday. if i stick my hand in my tank for something without shoes i get zapped. it doesn't hurt, it is more like a numbing buzz. and i have travertine on the floors. i don't know how it conducts electricity.

~alex

[JimD]

IMHO, Mag pumps should not be run external - they heat up too much...

Thats the number one reason to run them external... I run a fan on my Mag12 externaly that runs my closed loop... The biggest thing is if they are water tight, if so, yeah, if not, probably not so much.

[Bill S]

Yeah, Jim, that IS a great reason to run them external. However, I've had a couple that got hot enough to deform the plastic, and then start leaking!

Alex, get a grounding probe. They are $10-15. Put it in your sump and you will no longer have that tingling problem. BTW, even external pumps add voltage. My Iwakis and my other external pumps do as well.

[coraline79]

you know i have this happening in my tank. but i only get shocked when i don't have shoes on. and this is a constant thing, everyday. if i stick my hand in my tank for something without shoes i get zapped. it doesn't hurt, it is more like a numbing buzz. and i have travertine on the floors. i don't know how it conducts electricity.

~alex

I have saltillo tile and I have the same experience. I always wear my crocs when work on the tank. i have found regular unplugging/disassymbling of pumps make this dissipate. I think that all pumps build up a magnetic charge over time. Just a guess. haven't seen any adverse effects over time. all can be taken with a grain of salt, I am no expert.

[JimD]

"Yeah, Jim, that IS a great reason to run them external. However, I've had a couple that got hot enough to deform the plastic, and then start leaking!

Ive experienced the same thing, especially with Mag pumps, Id rather have them leak outside the tank rather than inside, talk about a disaster!

[Dee]

Alex, you made me crack up. Something I would do...keep doing it even though I know it's going to happen.


you know i have this happening in my tank. but i only get shocked when i don't have shoes on. and this is a constant thing, everyday. if i stick my hand in my tank for something without shoes i get zapped. it doesn't hurt, it is more like a numbing buzz. and i have travertine on the floors. i don't know how it conducts electricity.

~alex

[alton]

I posted this a couple years back. "PLEASE DO NOT DO WHAT I DID TO TEST YOUR SYSTEM" and anything that goes into and around your tank should be protected by a GFCI receptacle.

Stray Voltage
Before I get started “I DO NOT RECOMMEND” to anyone to do the things I have done for my test!
With that I am covering Stray Voltage in and around your aquarium. This does not cover stray current in your tank! If you are getting a tingle when you touch your water, find out what is causing it and remove it, do not go out a buy a grounding probe thinking this will fix the problem. I recommend only using power heads and other equipment that is grounded (Has three prongs). I have never had problems with stray voltage or so I thought till last week when I checked all three of my aquariums. The reason I say that is because I am barefooted on a tile floor with my hands and arms submerged all the time with no tingle, so how could I have voltage? I have checked in the past with a meter with no voltage showing. Just recently I had made changes to my 200 gallon aquarium, but I figured no tingle no voltage right? The following is what I came up with all electrical equipment and lighting for the following tanks:

Tank #1 - 200 gallon, wet dry filter system, Mag. pump for the skimmer, Pan World 100PXX for the return. On lighting, 2 – 250 watt MH, 4 – 54w T5HO, 1 – 160 watt VHO.
Stray voltage – 14.5 volts and yes no tingle, even when I was barefooted and wet floor. Turn off the metal halides and it drops to 8.5 volts, turn off the rest of the lighting and it drops below 2 volts. For a clarification my hood is brand new, with no salt crepe or moisture and the lamps are a minimum of 8” above the water.

Tank #2 – 155 gallon, wet dry filter system, Mag. pump for the skimmer, Pan World 50PXX for the return. On lighting, 2 – 250 watt MH mounted in a 5’ Orbit light
Stray voltage – less than .5 volts with everything running. Clarification light is metal and grounded and the tank has glass tops.

Tank #3 – 29 gallon with an eclipse three filter system. The lighting consists of a 96 watt Quad PC with a 2 ½” fan from Radio Shack for cooling.
Stray voltage – 9 volts and once again no tingle. I grounded the reflector and the voltage only dropped a volt. Turn off light and voltage is below .5 volts. For clarification once again no moisture everything is dry, lamps is mounted only 3” above the water.

Solution: Installed a grounding probe into sump of tank #1 and one into the tank of #3 and voltage dropped below one volt in each.

GROUNDING PROBE – Good or Bad?
Let’s cover the bad things first:
If your service ground is bad outside it will use your tank as a ground and you will get more than a tingle. Example I got a call from a friend and he told me he was getting shocked when he put his hand in his tank. So I took a voltage reading and only 5 volts to the meter but to the hand it wasn’t very pleasing. Took out the grounding probe and voltage and shock was gone. I went to the service and added another ground rod and it took care of the problem. He left the probe out of his tank.
If you have a lightning strike near your home you have a chance of the voltage finding your way into your tank.
If you are going to install a grounding probe lets cover the basic setup for a safe operation:
Check your service for a ground rod some homes in SA do not have one. Go to where your meter is and look below your service panel or disconnect for#6 or larger wire leading into the ground. The ground rod should be buried below. If you cannot find one call an electrician to install one. If you are in soil keep the area moist especially now in dry times, this the main reason we lose our grounding. If you are in rock same thing make sure and keep the soil wet because you have less soil and solid rock does not make a good grounding substance. If you are building a new home add an additional grounding source to your ground rod by attaching a grounding conductor of #4 copper wire to a minimum of 20’ of rebar in your slab and attach it in two places and then attach it to your service panel grounding bar. To check and make sure you do not any voltage on your grounding conductors take your meter and place the probes across the grounding (green) and grounded (White) slots of several receptacles through out your house, the voltage should be 0. And then attach the probes across the ungrounded (black or red) slot and the grounding slot, and then the ungrounded slot and grounded slot. Determining which slot is which is easy. Looking at the receptacle the “U” shaped one is the grounding. The largest of the straight slots is normally the grounded with the smaller of the two being the hot or ungrounded. If you have voltage from the grounded and grounding slots (1 to 50 volts) you have poor grounding, call an electrician. If you have 120 volts then your grounded and ungrounded conductors could be reversed. (Call an electrician) Remember black or red goes on gold and white goes on silver, and of course the green or bare wire goes on the green terminal.
If everything is perfect than install your grounding probe, but don’t forget about it every once in a while you will need to check for voltage. It’s just like checking your GFCI receptacles to make sure they are working properly. Just because you have one doesn’t mean you’re safe. That is why there is a test button.

Some issues with Stray voltage and fish:
The reason why I started this article was my Chevron Tang started getting HLLE and I couldn’t figure out why?

(From Richard at CB pets)
We know from experience that certain fish may do poorly in tanks which have stray voltage. One example is an imperator angel we had in qt that was doing really well. Moved him out for sale and all he did was hide in the corner and would not eat. Moved him back to qt and he acted fine. Moved him back out and he quit eating. Hmmmm...so I checked for stray voltage on the tank and it was 16 volts. Added a grounding probe and he immediately started swimming around normally and ate when I fed him. So I took out the grounding probe and he immediately swam to the same corner and would not move. Put it back in and he was back to acting normal.
I guess some fish are more sensitive to it than others but since they sense electrical voltage it is probably a stressor to some degree for all fish.
Some say that stray voltage could be the cause (or one of them) for HLLE.
This isn't proven but but makes some sense to me.

[Bill S]

GREAT points Alton - I knew we had discussed this a few years ago, which is when I found my problem. ON my 215, I have 3 1250gph external pumps, 2 large Quiet One pumps and 2 Seio 2600s. That was enough to get a tingle.

BUT, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD GROUNDING ROD on your home. Especially with very dry weather.

[moe]

wow I'm very impress with the feed back from this thread. I have learned so much. Thank you guy for chiming in.

[moe]

Is this the Mag 18 that I sold you earlier this year? Because if it is I had know idea that it leaked voltage. :confused: I used it externally because at the time I didn't have a true external pump. I only sold it because I went back to my mag 12 that I originally had on the tank. In addition I only sold the Mag 18 for what I paid for it. I'm sorry if this is the case but I did not intentionally sell you a bad pump. I would've just scraped it for parts if that was the case.

I know that you didn't sell me a intentionally bad pump. In fact I was happy cause I found what kind of hp I need for my tank. It has such great power as far as flow is concern. I think it just out lasted it life span if it is what I was told. I'm still using it with more caution. Eventually I will upgrade. However I must make due with what I have. And try not create to much conduction, it lessen the shock. lol

[los.tejanos83]

These posts just reminded how important to plug my grounding probe back in the sump vs. letting it collect dust on my table.