feeding bangai cardinals

[merlin0883]

I've got a 55 gal reef. I've had--gone through--about 10 bangai cardinals over the past few years. They never eat--that I see--so I suspect that they all starved. I quit buying them, because I felt sorry for the little guys, and it was a waste of money. I just got another triplet, and it's been a year and a half since I've had any. I thought that maybe the ones in stock now were potentially captive bred, and that they may be more predisposed to eat--since their parents must have survived in captivity too. I thought this may be possible because I've been reading stuff about many people having success getting these mouth-brooders to breed. It seems like I was potentially correct, because these little dudes are not shy at all--they come straight to the top of the tank when anyone comes near it. They also voraciously suck in anything that resembles food, including algae, copepods, tigger pods, amphipods, flake food, rotifers, etc. But, they always spit out EVERYTHING that they inhale. Are they getting trace bits of food by gill raking the brine shrimp, flakes, etc and then spitting out the rest? Is there something specific that they are "tasting" for before they will eat it? Can they not swallow anything large enough for us to see with the naked eye? Everyone says that they are very hardy, and that they have no problems with them. Evidence of this is many aquarists breeding them in captivity. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Josh

[Freak On A Reef]

Our Bangai favors the PE Mysis shrimp but will eat the smaller mysis as well. It is absolutly a pig. Sorry to hear you've been through so many. It pretty much eats nothing else and ignores any other food I have ever tried.

[allan]

Yeah, took me awhile to get mine off of brine onto mysis, but he doesn't eAt much else. I don't think they're diurnal though.

[merlin0883]

Thanks for the info. Yea, I have read several places that they are nocturnal in the wild. They hide under overhangs by day and come out to feed on copepods, amphipods, and other small arthropods/crustaceans after dark. I have tried feeding them after the halides go out, and they inhale food then too, but spit it back out. However, since I posted this thread, I went to the local pet shop on a search for frozen foods I did not already have--which was harder than I expected. I picked up some of the 1/2 cubes of cyclops, and they are eating it with extreme prejudice. So, problem solved--for now, anyway. Any other comments still appreciated.

Josh

[Kyle46N]

I have tried and failed with 3 bangaii's. I refuse to kill anymore. Just not a fish I will try again. The three I had ate for the first day or so, then quit eating, and died within a week.

[justahobby]

My pajama cardinal only eats live pods off the glass, and believe me I have tried for approx. 8 months to show him there is more to life. Some fish are just stubborn....

Since no one else has done it, I feel its my job:
What on earth would possess some one to try and kill ten.... or eleven of the same fish?? Irresponsible! Why didn't you give up after the 2nd or 3rd and realize this fish ain't for you? Secondly, assuming gets you nowhere real quick. Ask the seller if you are unsure of the fish being captive bred. Ask to see the fish eat and make note of what they are feeding.

[mabel_photo6]

Yep, I refuse to buy any more.
Glad to know I wasn't the only one having problems with them.
I bought 2; one died, then I lost the other about a week after.
The one that lasted longer ate brine shrimp and the other wouldn't eat.

So after those 2 died, I never tried again 'cause I figured I'd just keep having some dead cardinals.

[timmytimtim]

I bought two of them from Gabe's a about 3 months ago and they eat brine like pigs. They are getting bigger and are very healthy, happy fish. I think Gabe trys to feed them a little bit of everything so they'll eat when you get them...just wanted to let you know. If your thinking about getting some more, talk to Gabe and see what he has. Sorry, just realized your in San Marcos. Gabes is here is SA (just in case you didn't know).

[Freak On A Reef]

Since no one else has done it, I feel its my job:
What on earth would possess some one to try and kill ten.... or eleven of the same fish?? Irresponsible! Why didn't you give up after the 2nd or 3rd and realize this fish ain't for you? Secondly, assuming gets you nowhere real quick. Ask the seller if you are unsure of the fish being captive bred. Ask to see the fish eat and make note of what they are feeding.

Gosh I hope you feel better... :whew:Last time I checked this is still America and there is no law (yet anyway) saying that one can't waste their money if they want. Spend on Josh! Make this ecomony hum and more importantly, spend your money the way you want.:thumbs_up:

[Kristy]

We were interested in getting bangais for a while, but would only buy captive bred due to the information I've read about how we as aquarists have pretty well wiped out the populations on the reef. I know they can mouth-brood pretty easily and we were planning to put a pair or trio in our 20g as a dedicated tank for this purpose. I was surprised how difficult it was to find captive bred bangais for sale.

I think I remember Dr. Mark's GC Reef store mentioned plans to do this and maybe hobogato also has plans in his classroom (don't quote me on that one though) so maybe they will be available locally in the future. Other than that, I've seen captive bred bangais for sale a couple of times at Blue Zoo Aquatics online.

Also... it is a pet peave of mine when someone assumes that the only issue with dying fish is the money spent on that fish. To me that promotes the attitude that the life has no value other than monetary, which just doesn't fit well with responsible and ethical reefkeeping. Our rule of thumb in our house is that if we have lost a fish of a certain type, we will allow ourselves to try it again only if we have a strategy about what went wrong and what we could do better to insure its survival. Once we have lost two of the same type, then we have a "no more" policy.

[hobogato]

im sorry you feel this way. i would agree with you if we were talking about things and not live fish(or other organisms for that matter), let alone fish that are on the threatened list (link) (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/63572/0). you have to remember where you are posting, this organization promotes responsible reefkeeping and the op's practices are not following that idea. not trying to be harsh, just letting you know why you will likely get more responses like the one from justahobby if you dont change your attitude (or at least what you post) concerning the careless killing of anything.


Gosh I hope you feel better... :whew:Last time I checked this is still America and there is no law (yet anyway) saying that one can't waste their money if they want. Spend on Josh! Make this ecomony hum and more importantly, spend your money the way you want.:thumbs_up:

[msmith619]

My Bangaii experiences:
I have kept (and bred) Bangaii for about 8 years. The are carnivores and I have never had problems getting any to take meaty frozen foods....Mysis, Brine shrimp, krill, plankton. They have not ever taken flake for me or other foods like squid, blood worms, etc.
One thing I have noted, they are very slow to eat and shy. If you keep them with fast, active or agressive fish like angels, tangs, or damsels, they will not feed. The other very active fish intimidate them and out compete them for food.
They do great in a passive reef system with fish like jawfish, gobies, firefish, blennies, etc.
I kept a trio in a 55 gallon set-up like this and 2 paired off and killed the third, giving me a paited pair. I read about breeding and put a long spined urchin in the tank. The male was not eating a week later and had a mouth full of eggs. About every 6 weeks I had baby Bangaii living in the spines of the urchin. Unfortunately most became fish food for the other fsh but I would usually get 3-6 grow large enough from each brood to swap at the local fish stores in Houston when I lived there.
I STRONGLY recommend you buy tank raised. They already eat prepard foods and the wild population is currently endangered.
I have considered selling my 125 reef and putting up anther Bangaii tank, I think a Red Sea Max 65 gallow would be perfect, and trying to breed them again. They are cool fish and do well in the right environment.

[Freak On A Reef]

im sorry you feel this way. i would agree with you if we were talking about things and not live fish(or other organisms for that matter), let alone fish that are on the threatened list (link) (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/63572/0). you have to remember where you are posting, this organization promotes responsible reefkeeping and the op's practices are not following that idea. not trying to be harsh, just letting you know why you will likely get more responses like the one from justahobby if you dont change your attitude (or at least what you post) concerning the careless killing of anything.

Ace,

I am aware of the fish and all it has gone through. Also I am aware of how we all need to be responsible as reef keepers and not buy things just to spend money should they live or die. I too will only buy a fish or coral a couple of times so as to not waste money or life unless I have a specific plan to insure the success of keeping it alive.

As Kristi has a "peave" I do as well. When someone calls another "Irresponsible!" and posts in a tone that justahobby did, I have to speak up. The attitude he has falls along with carbon credits, global warming and that whole movement which I disagree with.

This is what I love about America, we can all have opinions and express our beliefs. It also gives many people the opportunity to be in such a great hobby as ours and help preserve many of the endangered creatures on our earth by raising awareness.

Rant over!:applause:

[ReefCube]

ive had glass carinals they are noted as being hardy but i have not seen or heard of anyone that can keep a group for longer than a year. Most cardinals seem to end up dieing due to stress of somekind and this leads to them not eating due to some kind of internal problem that is why when you buy 10 you may only have 3 or 4 after a month or less. Im not saying this for everyone just from what i have seen and heard. maybe these type of cardinals are different

[allan]

I'm glad this came up as I had toyed with the idea of getting another cardinal to keep the current one company. Wasn't aware that some just don't do well.

I've had mine for quite some time now, not a year yet, but will in Feb or March of next year. I do have mine in there with three tangs. When I come down in the morning (4am) I feed the sun coral, trumpets, and brain this guy is flitting back and forth I assume eating. He does come in for the occasional meal while I feed the herd of other fish, often darting into the food cloud only to disapear into his section of the tank.

I never really liked this fish. My sister bought it for the tank so I put it in there. It's getting bigger and doesn't appear stressed. Probably a tank bred fish though. Got it from AD.

[merlin0883]

Wow. A lot of activity since I last posted. For those simply responding to my questions, I appreciate the input. I also appreciate the opinions of the rest of you, whether you disagree with what I have done or have defended me to others. I have always owned animals of all kinds, and do consider myself a responsible aquarist/pet owner. Most of my previous pets were in my youth and were native fauna that I caught, housed, observed, learned about, then released in the location of collection. I am currently one semester away from obtaining my M.S. in Population and Conservation Biology, too. I know that this may not necessarily mean anything as to the nature of my character, but I assure all of you that I do care about the world and everything in it. I do what I can to conserve wildlife. That being said, I am also an avid hunter and fisherman. These are not mutually exclusive (animal loving and hunting), nor do I believe that the opinions of those of you which disagree about my "irresponsible" acts and those that claim that this is the basis of American liberty are mutually exclusive.

I bought my first triplet knowing little of the species. I was, however, informed by the pet shop that they were very hardy and that few people have trouble with them. I never noticed them taking food, tried to research it, found very little, and they eventually died. I was told by an individual who has a 75gal tank about a year later that they recommend having a "cardinal only" tank, because they are submissive to other hyperactive and large fishes. He recommended at least five per "shoal," and this is what I purchased, because he had seven in his 75gal (5 bangai and 2 pajama), and had even had one pair successfully spawn. He had the babies to prove it. However, this did not work out well for me either. It seems that his luck with this approach, although it sounded reasonable, didn't necessarily mean that it is the best approach. They died, one at a time, over the next few months. I quit buying them for a while. Then, about a year or so ago, I read an article about them. It talked of their behavior and feeding habits, as well as the potential threat to the species due to their mouth-brooding nature and persistent wild collection. Since this article, I have come across similar articles discussing this issue. I, at this point, decided to refrain from purchasing any unless they were cb or unless they exhibited a strong feeding response in the store. However, I had a hippo tang, a six-line wrasse, a royal gramma, and a flame hawk by this point, so I didn't even bother with the notion of purchasing another cardinal. Also, through this time, I upgraded my equipment (skimmer, lighting, powerheads, RO water system), and my coral has exploded over the last year or so. I gave the tang back to the owner (long story) and the gramma died (I presume of old age). The wrasse jumped (I had to remove the back two pieces of glass canopy to incorporate the larger skimmer). Since these fish have been gone, I have noticed a massive increase in various -pods. I went to a shop to get a green or red brittle star. They had some very large bangai's and a separate tank with about 10 smaller bangai's. I talked to the dude about them. He said that they ate well, and that they were "potentially cb." Well, you know as well as I do what this could mean--it means "buy my fish." Then, he said that they respond to a hand coming to the tank, because they were habituated to food coming from it. He presented his hand. They rushed it. He dropped some Rod's in there, and they went nuts. Since I figured my tank was in the best condition that it could be in, I got 3--but I didn't know what it was that they were picking out of the Rod's. I had trouble getting them to swallow food. I posted a forum about it. Then, instead of waiting for a response, I went searching for something that they might eat. I found cyclops. They love it. We'll see what happens. If they don't make it, I'll never purchase any more. I also figure that if they are wild caught, and if I can't get them to do well in my tank, that chances are they won't do that well in someone else's tank. I promise, they could be in worse hands.