Concerns

[MattK]

Before I open my mouth and find out the hard way that it was inappropriate let me ask this first. Can we discuss our concerns here on the board for everyone to participate or can we only discuss them in person at a meeting?

[cpreefguy]

Matt, I'd approach it this way.

If everyone can remain level headed, go for it.
If everyone has concerns based on facts and first hand experience, go for it.

If this is a personal issue, don't go for it.
If any concern is based on hearsay or an assumption, don't go for it.
If the question has been asked and answered several times, leading to everyone going in circles, I'd wait for the in-person BOD meeting.
Talking in an open manner, face to face, is much different and a much richer form of communication rather than typing on a keyboard in front of a screen.

If everyone can remain civil and objective, then I see no problem at all.

[MattK]

Sounds good Sean. We have some guidelines to follow so lets keep it civil and try to work through these issues together.

My first concern is the aggressive moderation of this board. I would like to discuss why the actions of some are tolerated and the actions of others are not? What prompted the "take out the trash" attitude?

[ACE]

Good question Matt. There are many concerns, let's tackle one at a time. yours first...

[MattK]

I agree ACE, one at a time.

I also wanted to add that although I do want to hear from the members I would really like to hear from the directors and officers on this thread. I know we all lead busy lifestyles but if you could find a second to respond it would be much appreciated by all.

[cpreefguy]

My first concern is the aggressive moderation of this board. I would like to discuss why the actions of some are tolerated and the actions of others are not? What prompted the "take out the trash" attitude?

Guess I'll try the first one :D

We have recognized this as a problem, and have implemented a new set of moderating guidelines. This new set includes a few warnings and then a few temporary bans before a permanent ban that may be appealed, in which a discussion is created for the BOD to decide if the ban was just or not.
The infractions given are based upon the content of ones posts, as well as the intent behind the content, when it is inconsistent with the terms of use of which all members have agreed.

These guidelines are set in place to rid this (our) great club of, and otherwise discourage disruptive and non-contributory behavior. Our goal is to attract and keep contributing members that set a positive tone for the club and are here with good intentions. We are all here for one reason, to gain knowledge, insight, and inspiration pertaining to our hobby. Just as important, many here are able to forge relationships and camaraderie, from which we all benefit.

[MattK]

Guess I'll try the first one :D

We have recognized this as a problem, and have implemented a new set of moderating guidelines. This new set includes a few warnings and then a few temporary bans before a permanent ban that may be appealed, in which a discussion is created for the BOD to decide if the ban was just or not.

I'm glad to hear this issue has been addressed. I was always under the assumption that these were the guidelines to begin with. Question, are these "new" guidelines posted somewhere for everyone to see? The reason I ask is because the ones you have listed here conflict with what Steve told me the other night.

The infractions given are based upon the content of ones posts, as well as the intent behind the content, when it is inconsistent with the terms of use of which all members have agreed.

You have hit on another concern of mine. The bylaws and the terms of use differ greatly. Basically from what Jim has cited from the terms of use it says that the moderators can delete, edit, ban,....etc whatever they want and no explanation needs to be given. I know I read that and it was chapter 7 sub sec c. I just checked the terms and it is no longer there. I have also just spent half an hour or so trying to find his post with no success. Has this been changed?

[ACE]

Guess I'll try the first one :D

We have recognized this as a problem, and have implemented a new set of moderating guidelines. This new set includes a few warnings and then a few temporary bans before a permanent ban that may be appealed, in which a discussion is created for the BOD to decide if the ban was just or not.

I'm glad to hear this issue has been addressed. I was always under the assumption that these were the guidelines to begin with. Question, are these "new" guidelines posted somewhere for everyone to see? The reason I ask is because the ones you have listed here conflict with what Steve told me the other night.

The infractions given are based upon the content of ones posts, as well as the intent behind the content, when it is inconsistent with the terms of use of which all members have agreed.

You have hit on another concern of mine. The bylaws and the terms of use differ greatly. Basically from what Jim has cited from the terms of use it says that the moderators can delete, edit, ban,....etc whatever they want and no explanation needs to be given. I know I read that and it was chapter 7 sub sec c. I just checked the terms and it is no longer there. I have also just spent half an hour or so trying to find his post with no success. Has this been changed?

Matt, if this one goes unanswered, mind if I ask one?

[cpreefguy]

You have hit on another concern of mine. The bylaws and the terms of use differ greatly. Basically from what Jim has cited from the terms of use it says that the moderators can delete, edit, ban,....etc whatever they want and no explanation needs to be given. I know I read that and it was chapter 7 sub sec c. I just checked the terms and it is no longer there. I have also just spent half an hour or so trying to find his post with no success. Has this been changed?

Matt, this is another one of our concerns. We have been working on this for a week or so, but it is a very large undertaking, as you can imagine.
Basically, we are combing through the by-laws and terms of use and noting any unclear or conflicting areas so that we can update and amend them so they are both free of conflicting rules. We have a pretty ambitious list of items that we are currently working on (Check out the BOD meeting minutes from the last meeting, some really good stuff for MAAST in there)
so hopefully we can get it all done in a reasonable amount of time.

[hobogato]

i dont envy you guys/gals on the bod at all, but i am sure you will get it all straightened out :)

[MattK]

i dont envy you guys/gals on the bod at all, but i am sure you will get it all straightened out :)

I agree Ace.

Thanks for addressing the situation Sean, let us know when the revisions get posted.

Well, that's it for my main concern. If anyone else would like to voice their concerns feel free to do so.

[ACE]

Sean, I thank you for your responses to this thread. For me, it helps to see that someone is actually willing to help answer tough questions or concerns. I respect that about you. I do have a question for you, if you are willing to help answer. I am concerned that the position of President of the BOD is not a general election type of appointment, I mean a popular vote of the charter members between two or more opponents. If I understand correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the BOD elects that position right? If I am correct, would I be banned or disciplined if I posted a poll in a seperate thread asking if members of this site would like that to be a possibility? Again, I appreciate your responses and help.

Thanks,
Mike

[snfkotara]

I have been reading these threads on all this and I am just wondering what is all the bickering about? We are all part of MAAST because we share a common interest and hobby. But lately I feel that it is no longer just about a common interest or hobby. It seems to be about what one doesn't do right in one another eyes or what BOD is not playing fair. Well I believe it should be stated and dealt with, and then lets move on to what we all are here for our tanks and the wellness of these wonderful creature we all have been blesses to have and experience in our tanks. I have enjoyed all the functions and making friends, but this bickering over the little stuff is silly and very childish. Maybe somewhere I have missed the big picture but when I joined MAAST I joined to talk to and learn from others that share the same interest and hobby. Is that what MAAST is about?

[BIGBIRD123]

Sean, I thank you for your responses to this thread. For me, it helps to see that someone is actually willing to help answer tough questions or concerns. I respect that about you. I do have a question for you, if you are willing to help answer. I am concerned that the position of President of the BOD is not a general election type of appointment, I mean a popular vote of the charter members between two or more opponents. If I understand correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the BOD elects that position right? If I am correct, would I be banned or disciplined if I posted a poll in a seperate thread asking if members of this site would like that to be a possibility? Again, I appreciate your responses and help.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,
The President is a general election position for the elections in December. It is a requirement that you have served on the board for 1 year before you can run for the President and VP positions. In the last 4 years, there has not been enough people that want to serve to fill all the positions available. We ask the membership to nominate someone or themselves and sometimes we get enough to fill the positions. Some make it full-term and some do not. Some have changes in their lives that require them to step down, others maybe job-related or just personal. Everyone needs to know that it is sometimes a thankless job and we are volunteers with families, jobs and lives outside of MAAST. To vote in these elections, one must be a Charter Member.

As far as the post, I feel as though I answered your question.

Thanks for your concern...

[ACE]

Steve,

Again I am very glad you have decided to join in, it is much appreciated. I did know that voting was a charter member privilage, and DEC/08 I was certainly a charter member. I was also aware of the requirement to sit on the BOD for a time (thanks for telling me exactly how long that time is). However, I must have missed your general election somehow. Is that voting thread still open to view in a search of the archived threads? That seems like a big thing for me to have missed? In addition, I understand the BOD is a thankless job, and that volunteered time they spend for the site, receiving nothing in return really is appreciated. If you could please be patient with me long enough to point out the thread of your most recent general charter member election I'll not post another question in this thread.

Thanks,
Mike

QUOTE=BIGBIRD123;696805]Mike,
The President is a general election position for the elections in December. It is a requirement that you have served on the board for 1 year before you can run for the President and VP positions. In the last 4 years, there has not been enough people that want to serve to fill all the positions available. We ask the membership to nominate someone or themselves and sometimes we get enough to fill the positions. Some make it full-term and some do not. Some have changes in their lives that require them to step down, others maybe job-related or just personal. Everyone needs to know that it is sometimes a thankless job and we are volunteers with families, jobs and lives outside of MAAST. To vote in these elections, one must be a Charter Member.

As far as the post, I feel as though I answered your question.

Thanks for your concern...[/QUOTE]

[BIGBIRD123]

Mike,
There was no election because there was no opposition to the Officer positions and just enough people volunteered for the other vacant positions. Everyone took there position without a vote

[drunkenclam]

As a long time "lurker" and recent web member considering charter membership I have a question. I hope no one sees it as an "attack" as that is not the intention but merely a concern. I have acquaintances with members at all levels of memberships that have repeatedly mentioned allegations as to the misappropriation of funds/donations. As I understand it this has been a major topic in the charter forum as of recent. These allegations continue to surface and bring concern. With the recent application for an NPO status I am certain that record keeping is in line and what I have over heard is obtuse. So, I ask the following..... are there acute records/receipts for the sale of TMAC raffle tickets? I certainly don't expect for detailed records to be posted here for non-charter members to see but it seems a reasonable request that it be posted in the charter forum.

Thank you

[MattK]

^ not me

[Bill S]

LOL, Matt.

[CoryDude]

Drunken Clam, welcome to Maast! Wow, what a topic for your first post.

I can't speak for the board, but personally I feel what you are hearing is just water cooler talk. I've heard these same rumors, but it is from 3rd, 4th, and 5th hand sources. Someone tells someone, they tell someone else, and the ball starts rolling.

Bill has stated this is an issue he would like to put to rest once he joins the board. As much as a PTA he can be, I'm sure this matter will be investigated thoroughly.

I have some problems with the board also, so I'm not defending them. But, until people like you and myself volunteer our time like they have, we really have no right to lob handgrenades.

[CoryDude]

Drunkenclam, was that your first post? :angel:

[drunkenclam]

Drunkenclam, was that your first post? :angel:

Yes, it was. This should be my second as indicated by the counter opposite my user name. Sorry for the late reply but with work, school, family, and life in general I do not have the time to log in every night. To address your previous post I am certain that the information that I hear is "a few hands down." Much of which may be far form accurate. The allegations do not concern so much as the lack of answers to the many questions revolving around such sensitive topics. Call me skeptical or a glass half empty sort of individual but where there is smoke....

I am just posting, from my observation, what many people are hesitant to for fear of being "blacked balled" by a certain so called "clique" element. I am not hear to create and/or stir trouble. If any question is seen as such I have to ponder why? And it's a lower case "d." :angel:

That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[LoneStar]

Well Mr. drunkenclam,

I'm not sure how long have you been lurking but to my best knowledge, this is the best list going for the TMAC raffle held earlier this year. You can see it at the link just below. It was posted in a thread started in the Lounge, so any member could have been visible to it. Of course you may have joined the club after the original thread was started, so this may be new to you.

http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52497&page=5

Now granted it is not the best or acurate list, but hey, it's what we got. Now that we (a collective we) know and will keep better records on items being received to members in the future.

As for any rumors of miss-appropriation of funds/donations, they are just rumors. It's easy to start with hear-say and watch it spread like wildfire. The fact that it has gone on so long is silly and stupid. If anyone thinks they got a beef and want to proceed with it, step up and just present a formal complaint with evidence. Otherwise they can just go on with their paranoid ways.....

[princer7]

As a long time "lurker" and recent web member considering charter membership I have a question. I hope no one sees it as an "attack" as that is not the intention but merely a concern. I have acquaintances with members at all levels of memberships that have repeatedly mentioned allegations as to the misappropriation of funds/donations. As I understand it this has been a major topic in the charter forum as of recent. These allegations continue to surface and bring concern.

Rumors that get passed around and around do just as much damage if not more than any direct attack ever could. There will be an open BOD meeting in the coming weeks where hopefully everyone's questions can be addressed head on. The members of the BOD have the best interests of the membership of MAAST at heart. I hope this can be remembered when someone passes around something that is detrimental to the entire club - in the end it hurts us all. A question addressed to the BOD of the member's choice through PM can easily take care of what could become a damaging rumor.

[Bill S]

Barring some rush of Charter Members who have not yet voted, voting against me, it looks like I'm soon to be the newest member of the Board. While I've been around here for a while, I'm far from an "insider". Even those that like me here, hate me about 25% of the time. I think it was Cory who correctly tagged me as a "PITA".

This is the platform I ran on, for those that know me, I won't back off, or be a "wallflower" member of this Board. This is what I "ran" on, this is what I'll attempt to accomplish. Then again, they could vote me off!
************************************************** ******************
Originally Posted by bstreep http://maast.org/forums/themes/smooth/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?p=695966#post695966)
OK, folks, here's my platform/pledge, realizing that I'm only a single person, and if elected, I have only 1 vote:

1) Return MAAST to an OPEN club, where discussion, and even discourse is permitted. The banning of folks for disagreeing with those in charge, will end.

2) Push for an audit of the Club Books. Sherri has done an outstanding job. But, with all of the unfounded rumors running around, let's put them all completely and finally to rest. The Bylaws specifically call for the President to regularly appoint an Audit Committee. This needs to be done.

3) Address any and all possible tax liabilities immediately. To the best of my knowledge, MAAST has never paid sales tax to the State of Texas? I will be happy to make the phone calls on behalf of MAAST.

4) Push for a Code of Ethics for the Board. I'll be happy to write it. The Board needs to be held to the highest standard.

5) Clean up the Bylaws. Again, I'll be happy to head this up. I believe we have lawyer or 2 around - maybe they would help tighten them up.

6) Make sure that all Sponsors pay their sponsorship fees, get fair and equal exposure to MAAST, and that sponsorship pages are kept current. When a sponsor leaves, the link needs to be taken down. When a sponsor signs, they should quickly get a sponsor page - some have been sponsors for quite a while, before getting a link.

************************************************** **************************

To further clarify #6 above,this means that before a sponsor becomes a sponsor, they pay their sponsorship fees and/or produce their donations. ALL donations will be publicly accounted for, and should be promptly awarded (within 12 months). As it pertains to #4 above, I'd like to see the BOD not participate directly in raffles and door prizes. My pledge is to donate any I might win while on the BOD to educator members.

It comes down to this: I want my MAAST back. Where we pretty much get along, we help each other out, and do things because we should, not just to make money.

[drunkenclam]

Well Mr. drunkenclam,

I'm not sure how long have you been lurking but to my best knowledge, this is the best list going for the TMAC raffle held earlier this year. You can see it at the link just below. It was posted in a thread started in the Lounge, so any member could have been visible to it. Of course you may have joined the club after the original thread was started, so this may be new to you.

http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52497&page=5

Now granted it is not the best or acurate list, but hey, it's what we got. Now that we (a collective we) know and will keep better records on items being received to members in the future.

As for any rumors of miss-appropriation of funds/donations, they are just rumors. It's easy to start with hear-say and watch it spread like wildfire. The fact that it has gone on so long is silly and stupid. If anyone thinks they got a beef and want to proceed with it, step up and just present a formal complaint with evidence. Otherwise they can just go on with their paranoid ways.....

Thank you for your post and link. While it may or may not be "the best or acurate list" I do not know. However, I see no information as to the number of raffle tickets sold, cash or otherwise, and the revenue generated form such sales.

From the same thread the Sponsorship Committee Member states "I will be the first to admit additional record keeping is needed." From what I hear the same member initiated a thread about a possible $5000 missing from the MAAST account.

As I posted before this may be "handed down" information. I do not know. I am just asking for clarification on the matter. I feel that "not the best or accurate list" or "additional record keeping is needed" addresses your "beef" or "evidence" proposition as it seems we all agree recording keeping is.....while you tell me?

As I stated before not looking for trouble. Just pointing out observations that can help improve the MAAST community.

Thank you for the time

[drunkenclam]

Barring some rush of Charter Members who have not yet voted, voting against me, it looks like I'm soon to be the newest member of the Board. While I've been around here for a while, I'm far from an "insider". Even those that like me here, hate me about 25% of the time. I think it was Cory who correctly tagged me as a "PITA".

This is the platform I ran on, for those that know me, I won't back off, or be a "wallflower" member of this Board. This is what I "ran" on, this is what I'll attempt to accomplish. Then again, they could vote me off!
************************************************** ******************
Originally Posted by bstreep http://maast.org/forums/themes/smooth/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?p=695966#post695966)
OK, folks, here's my platform/pledge, realizing that I'm only a single person, and if elected, I have only 1 vote:

1) Return MAAST to an OPEN club, where discussion, and even discourse is permitted. The banning of folks for disagreeing with those in charge, will end.

2) Push for an audit of the Club Books. Sherri has done an outstanding job. But, with all of the unfounded rumors running around, let's put them all completely and finally to rest. The Bylaws specifically call for the President to regularly appoint an Audit Committee. This needs to be done.

3) Address any and all possible tax liabilities immediately. To the best of my knowledge, MAAST has never paid sales tax to the State of Texas? I will be happy to make the phone calls on behalf of MAAST.

4) Push for a Code of Ethics for the Board. I'll be happy to write it. The Board needs to be held to the highest standard.

5) Clean up the Bylaws. Again, I'll be happy to head this up. I believe we have lawyer or 2 around - maybe they would help tighten them up.

6) Make sure that all Sponsors pay their sponsorship fees, get fair and equal exposure to MAAST, and that sponsorship pages are kept current. When a sponsor leaves, the link needs to be taken down. When a sponsor signs, they should quickly get a sponsor page - some have been sponsors for quite a while, before getting a link.

************************************************** **************************

To further clarify #6 above,this means that before a sponsor becomes a sponsor, they pay their sponsorship fees and/or produce their donations. ALL donations will be publicly accounted for, and should be promptly awarded (within 12 months). As it pertains to #4 above, I'd like to see the BOD not participate directly in raffles and door prizes. My pledge is to donate any I might win while on the BOD to educator members.

It comes down to this: I want my MAAST back. Where we pretty much get along, we help each other out, and do things because we should, not just to make money.

I would hardly call a man that speaks his mind, wishes to addresses concerns, and posts a platform without any BS a PITA. This is a free country. Thank you thinking freely. Good luck too you sir.

[Bill S]

I would hardly call a man that speaks his mind, wishes to addresses concerns, and posts a platform without any BS a PITA. This is a free country. Thank you thinking freely. Good luck too you sir.

Hey, Cory and I know each other - it was said and taken in jest. Actually, I've taken it as a compliment. Most people call me much worse!

[drunkenclam]

Hey, Cory and I know each other - it was said and taken in jest. Actually, I've taken it as a compliment. Most people call me much worse!



And I understand that. No offense to Cory or you. But others do call you much worse as they will me. But I insist they call Mr. *$%##2. :lauging:

[ACE]

I think it was Cory who correctly tagged me as a "PITA".

Hey Bill, your not the only one that gets to wear that title sir. :shades:..At least Cory said it out in the open...not like some others....

[princer7]

Let's get this thread back on track.

[CoryDude]

There's probably more to disproving this rumor than just the tmac ledger you've requested. That's why it's probably best to address this via pm or at the upcoming open BOD meeting.

And yes, I called Bill a PITA in the highest regards. I was impressed that he wants to tackle this issue head on.

[junkstang]

BSTREPP(BILL) I have been here on MAAST for quit sometime and noticed the changes and I want MAAST back here to help each other. it does seem that most are still that way but a few have had a change of heart. that is one of the reasons why I didn't renew my membership.

[MattK]

BSTREPP(BILL) I have been here on MAAST for quit sometime and noticed the changes and I want MAAST back here to help each other. it does seem that most are still that way but a few have had a change of heart. that is one of the reasons why I didn't renew my membership.

Ditto brother. The only reason i renewed is so i could have a vote to undo some of the ridiculous changes.

[ACE]

Ditto brother. The only reason i renewed is so i could have a vote to undo some of the ridiculous changes.

I make 3 and I am sure we are not the only ones. However, with Bill's pending inauguration I think I will renew so I can have a vote as well.