Dripping Kalkwasser...Help.

[Mr Cob]

So, for the first time in my life my system needs calcium added.

I set up a Kent Dosing 2.5 gal jug. I mixed some kalkwasser and I'm unsure of the process.

Question...is it true that I have to do this every 24 hours because it becomes bad? I thought I could premix and dose over a week.???

Thanks for any input.

[Mr Cob]

I found this...

To Dose Kalkwasser: Always mix kalkwasser in a different container (as directed). Allow the kalkwasser to settle completely before proceeding. Add only the clear calcareous water to the AquaDose unit. DO NOT add the precipitate. Set drip rate in about 24 hours.

This is what I have;
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3677

[JimD]

Idealy, you want to get your Ca and Alk levels where you want them using something like turbo calcium or B-Ionic, then use kalk to maintain those levels... Get your levels where you want them then we'll talk more, theres more to it than just opening the valve and letter drip.. lol

[Mr Cob]

My calcium is normally over 500 and yesterday it was 480 and today 400. I want it to stay around 420-440.

[JimD]

100ppm decrease in 24 hours??? Are you sure your kit is in good shape? Thats very unusual...

[Mr Cob]

100 over 48 hours...

I just added a bunch of new SPS to my system...some of which were very large colonies 5+"

I have a 75 gallon.

[JimD]

Still, is this something out of the ordinary? Has you Ca been consistant over the past? I mean, I can help you with the kalkwasser but there seems to be something going on to use so much calcium in so little time...

[Mr Cob]

My calcium has always been consistent...maybe you didn't see that I edited my post before you responded....about adding all the new SPS colonies.

[Mr Cob]

Even at 400ppm, that seems like a good place to keep it.

[Mr Cob]

Perhaps I should wait until tomorrow to verify the difference in results and see if I continue to drop in ppm??? That would eliminate the cause for a faulty test kit because I would be comparing differences between test with the same kit...???

[JimD]

Ah ha! lol, those pesky little details... Ok then, that system you have will work ok, Idealy, like I said in the other thread, you want to dose it via an ATO with a float switch and a Ph monitor.. Kalk has a Ph of 12.4 and will affect the tanks perameters. That beind said, put a couple tablespoons of a good kalk mix into the container and fill it with RO/DI and shake the snot out of it.... Allow the mixture to settle until like the article says, its clear and only drip the clear effluent, this is because, if youre like me, you dont want to risk adding any contaminants in the tank. Do this mostly at night, the reason it to keep your Ph steady with as little swing as possible, I suggest beginning your dosing soon after the lights go our and continue throughout the night as long as the Ph doesnt get to high or the tank doesnt over flow... ....

[Mr Cob]

Ok, thanks, jim. I appreciate you taking the time to probe me...LOL and respond with sound advice.

So, I have a PH monitor but need to pick up the probe... I also run 24-7 lighting on 2 fuge systems, each has their own lighting so my PH doesn't really shift much at night anyways.

Is this not something I can just mix and let it drip throughout the week...slowly?

[JimD]

A lot depends on how it affects your Ph and what your eveporation rate is. If you can match the evaporation rate, (religiously) and the Ph remains within an acceptable range, then yes, you can do that as long as you dont drip a slurry and only drip the clear effluent....

[OrionN]

My 58 g tank elaborated about 1 g per day. I put 2 full teaspoon of kalk into a plastic milk gallon container with RO water Shake them up and siphon it into the sump with a RO water line. Two hole cut into the cap of the container, one for the Ro tubing and the other to get air to enter so that pressure in the milk container do not decrease and stop the siphon. Drip rate control by an air valve. I run these in over an hr or so daily. My coral and clams and fish and other animal do well without problem. If solid undissolved kalk enter the tank no harm done. It really easy. As long as you don't dump the whole gallon into the tank over several minutes, no harm will be done

[JimD]

I would never dose the unsettled slurry as mentioned. If you've ever seen the inside of a kalk reactor, you'd know why...

[RICKY81]

i have added multiple sps to the tank and haven't had that much of a drop in calcium...

for my 75gal mixed reef i would drip my kalkwasser by gravity but i did a homemade container, and yeah just the like instructions say, i would mix it up really good, it was (1 liter container with 2 tsp) until the whole water was like milk color, then i would pretty much let is sit overnight approx. 8 hrs and then i would drip it, but i would use it for over a period of 1 week, although i would have a decrease in my alk and never really knew why....lol....i guess that was the culprit.

[Mr Cob]

i have added multiple sps to the tank and haven't had that much of a drop in calcium...

for my 75gal mixed reef i would drip my kalkwasser by gravity but i did a homemade container, and yeah just the like instructions say, i would mix it up really good, it was (1 liter container with 2 tsp) until the whole water was like milk color, then i would pretty much let is sit overnight approx. 8 hrs and then i would drip it, but i would use it for over a period of 1 week, although i would have a decrease in my alk and never really knew why....lol....i guess that was the culprit.

Did you slow drip it continuously over the week or at specific times?

[Jeff]

i have two 5 gl buckets that i added 2 teaspoons of lime and let it sit overnight, i use this as my top off. i don't drip over night, just add as much as i need at the time. occasionaly a little if the lime enters the tank but it doesn't effect it at all. i remove the lime sluge every six weeks from the containers and add more lime to it.

[Mr Cob]

So, if I'm depleting 40-50 ppm of calcium daily, how much would I need to dose?

[RICKY81]

Did you slow drip it continuously over the week or at specific times?

yeah i would drip it continuosly over the week, not just overnight, and i had it set up to dial flow (got it from the hospital for the iv tubings) that pretty much makes it easier to adjust the flow rate since it has little numbers and you just adjust the rate...

and i would also clean the container with hot,hot water + vinegar cause after the fist use u will have all this white stuff on the container and tubing tends to get clogged up....so if u can try cleaning it after each use or just use ur judgment see if it can wait for next round.... just make sure u pour the water, vinegar and stirr....might be kind of dumb infor.. but obviously the more vinegar u add the easier it is to take it off...

[JimD]

So, if I'm depleting 40-50 ppm of calcium daily, how much would I need to dose?

That will be determined by the reults of your Ca tests.

[RICKY81]

kalwasser (CaOH) to increase the calcium level of the tank. it can cause alkalinity issues by itself.....so u might need to be adding something to fix the alk. if issues arise.....

just checking see if u are aware of this, it was part of a thread that ACE told me

[OrionN]

So, if I'm depleting 40-50 ppm of calcium daily, how much would I need to dose?
It really depends on What your tank volume is. 40 ppm (part per million) of 1 gallon is 1000 times less then 40 ppm of 1000 gallon.
You can take a calculator out and calculate the volume then weight of you tank water then calculate the weigh of calcium you need to add, or you can just add a specific amount and measure the result change in Ca in the tank water. I am lazy, so I do the later. After a time or two, you will know almost exactly how much to add to raise it up 40 or 40 ppm

[Jamie]

I'm no expert...but I was told by a fellow reefer here that when I add my ESV Calcium Hydroxide powder, that I had to dose it right after I mixed it. The reason was associated with the timeframe in which the usable calcium from the mixture was available to the corals. Over time, I guess it reacts with oxygen etc and is transformed to a compund that isn't able to be absorbed by the coral.

For this reason, I have not set up a weekly dosing system like the rig you have. I also used this theory to justify how a real kalk reactor works...it is a closed system that doesn't have exposure to ambient air.

So...back to your question about setting the drip up over the course of the week...I don't think that's the optimal way to do it...hence the instructions refering to the 24 hr deal.

Pickling lime or other calcium sources may be totally different...but I have a hunch that kalk is kalk.

[OrionN]

Kalk is Ca(OH)2 formed Ca++ and 2OH- in water, which react with CO2 in the air to form Ca++ and CO3-- wich precipitate out of solution as CaCO3. If you mix kalk and leave it open to air (CO2 in air) then you won't have a saturated kalk solution, rather water with some kalk and solid CaCO3. Kalk solution is most potent if you use it right away because it does not come in contact with CO2 in the air. If you keep it in a sealed container, it is fine (escpecially in container with almost no air in it)

High pH of the kalk solution cause some impurities like phosphate and nitrate to precipitale out of solution. That is why JimD recommended that we should not dump all these gunk into our tank. For me I drip clowdy solution of Kalk to added the most Ca into the tank. After each use I empty and discard the lelf over powder which is mostly insoluble CaCO3 and whatever impurities percipitate out of solution and undisolved kalk. There is no problem with adding clowdy kalk solution other than it will cause even higher increase in pH (than clear kalk solution) if you add it too quickly.

[Jamie]

Thanks Orion,

I just read up on this and was going to follow up to clarify my first post...ie replacing O2 with CO2...but you did a great job. Also, you can test your Kalk to see if it is still good by checking its pH when dissolved. It should be a little over 12dKH.

[Mr Cob]

Ok, PH 8.2 today. Calcium 380ppm...I mixed the kalkwasser yesterday (2 teaspoons for 2 gallons) in a different container. Cleared the top layer of film today and poured into my dosing container, discarded leftover gunk and then started dosing 1 small drip every 15 seconds.

Plan is to change container every two weeks. I will measure calcium tomorrow to see if I'm dripping too slow or too fast.

[OrionN]

....... Cleared the top layer of film today and poured into my dosing container, discarded leftover gunk and then started dosing 1 small drip every 15 seconds.
.....
Top layer film is kalk reacted with CO2 and form CaCO3 This solution is not saturated with Ca++ and OH-

You can really run it in faster than that. I run 1 g into my 30 g tank over 4 hrs or so. With on drip every 15 second, you will never get anywhere.

[Bill S]

Rob,

Depending upon where it's going, you can drip a whole lot more than that. What you don't want to happen is for it to precipitate out.

I also have dosed calcium chloride in the past - which is a MUCH quicker way to raise calcium. I have some if you need some - when I bought my tank I got about 1/4 of a 5 gallon bucket with the purchase.

[Mr Cob]

Ok, I meant to say "change the container every week", not every two weeks.

I figured I was dosing pretty slow. I was really trying to plan it to dose as it's being depleeted so that the dosing would be continuous. I'll test when I get home today and see what's going on.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Huge help...!

[OrionN]

You can add Ca Cl2 which disolves much more redily than Ca (OH)2 and not anywhere near as caustic. However in order to keep your chemistry balance, you also need to add Na2 CO3 to bring bicarb up. Calcium Chloride and Sodium Bicarb is the main ingredience of two part additive. Add Calcium hydroxide (kalk) you added both components in one.

[Mr Cob]

Add Calcium hydroxide (kalk) you added both components in one.

I'm assuming this is what I did by adding the kalkwasser???

I'm not interested in other approaches...I want to use what I bought.

[Jamie]

I'm assuming this is what I did by adding the kalkwasser???

I'm not interested in other approaches...I want to use what I bought.

Yes, that is what your kalk is doing. I know they're expensive, but what you are stuggling with is why many reefers buy calcium reactors and/or kalk reactors. They really make a big difference and remove the daily mainenance requirement for Ca from the equation. FWIW, I would recommend keeping your eyes peeled for a nice used unit. I'm not saying its a requirement...I think Bernie V. used only ESV B-Ionic daily and his tank way incredible.

[OrionN]

You can buy Picking lime (food grade Calcium hydroxide) at HEB (Mrs Wade Picking lime is the brand that I use) It is really in expensive. Only seasonal about this time of the year. People use this in food canning. Because the "self purification" process of kalk (precipitation of impurities) and I feel that If I can eat it, the fish can too. It cost about 1-2 dollars for 1/2 a gallon powder of this stuff. i have used it for 10+ years without problem years

[Mr Cob]

You can buy Picking lime (food grade Calcium hydroxide) at HEB (Mrs Wade Picking lime is the brand that I use) It is really in expensive. Only seasonal about this time of the year. People use this in food canning. Because the "self purification" process of kalk (precipitation of impurities) and I feel that If I can eat it, the fish can too. It cost about 1-2 dollars for 1/2 a gallon powder of this stuff. i have used it for 10+ years without problem years

Very interesting, Minh. You don't mess around. Very knowledgeable about what's going in your tank.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks, Jamie.

[Mr Cob]

Well, calcium was at 400ppm and PH at 8.2 after dosing for 24 hours at one drop per 10 seconds. I will bump it to 1 drop per 5 seconds now for 24 hours and see where I'm at tomorrow.

[Mr Cob]

So...did not test yesterday but did today.

PH: 7.8 how the heck did it go back down!?!
Calcium: 460-480ppm

So, looking to get a probe for my PH monitor to rule out these stupid test kits. Nothing I can do about the Calcium test kit...just have to assume it's accurate. I backed the dripping back down to 10 seconds since the calcium raised with 5 second intervals.

[Mr Cob]

Going to dose superbuffer dkh to get PH back up. Will do small portions in case it's my test kit acting up.

[txav8r]

Youcan come get my test kit if you want to compare them. I'm only gonna be here another 30 min. or so, and won't be back till late sunday. Someone will be at the house most of the day though. I'll set them out just in case.

[Mr Cob]

Going to dose superbuffer dkh to get PH back up. Will do small portions in case it's my test kit acting up.

Actually, I'm going to just leave things going as is until I get my PH probe.

[Mr Cob]

Youcan come get my test kit if you want to compare them. I'm only gonna be here another 30 min. or so, and won't be back till late sunday. Someone will be at the house most of the day though. I'll set them out just in case.


Thanks, Jack. I'm tired of messing with the tank and these stupid test kits so I'm just going to let the tank be and at least wait until the PH probe comes in...that will cut one chore down. Wish I could afford all mechanical monitors!!!

I hate testing! It's the only thing I don't enjoy in this hobby. Matching stupid colors that all look alike! Too much room for human error!

[OrionN]

I find that pH test kits and probe that we use in the hobby are not very good

[Troy Valentine]

Rob, have you ever dosed or tested you Magnesium level? This is a key ingredient in keeping a stable calcium/alk level in a reef tank. Especially if you have a lot of coraline growth in your tank.

[Mr Cob]

Troy, I have not. Just added it to my long list of things to do to my tank that I don't want to do. :)

[fishcraze]

I find that pH test kits and probe that we use in the hobby are not very good
+1. I have to have two pH probes on the tank just to make sure the reading are accurate.

[JimD]

+1. I have to have two pH probes on the tank just to make sure the reading are accurate.

How do make sure that the two meters are reading accurately? Is it possible that they could both be wrong? The reason Im asking is because Im having trouble getting two meters to read the same. My Pinpoint consistantly reads .4 higher than the sms122. Both have been calibrated and both probes are less than a year old..

[fishcraze]

.4 difference is quite high! my pinpoint and milwalkee reading ~0.1-0.2 difference, and they go up and down together. You may need to re-calibrate both.
With a redundant set, if one showing some weird reading (like either going up or keep going down as for an old probe), you can at least still have the other one to go with and switch the control to the good one if needed.

[Mr Cob]

How often do you re-calibrate?

[OrionN]

How often do you re-calibrate?
Every time I used it. Even then, I cannot trust it. I just file it away in the round filing cabinet and just forget about pH of my tank. I even not check the pH of my Calcium reactor. I just do bubble count and go from there.
pH of the tank is not really important any way. I never adjust it. There is not away to adjust it. If I added kalk too fast I can see that the coral is irritated a little. Fish never show any sign of problem with having tank pH spike up due to kalk addition.

[fishcraze]

I do the calibration when I get a new probe. They are usually stable for about 1 year so I try to calibrate them once a year (if I remember:). They normally reach end of life around 2 yrs, that when I'd start seeing erratic readings from the probes.

[fishcraze]

Every time I used it. Even then, I cannot trust it. I just file it away in the round filing cabinet and just forget about pH of my tank. I even not check the pH of my Calcium reactor. I just do bubble count and go from there.
pH of the tank is not really important any way. I never adjust it. There is not away to adjust it. If I added kalk too fast I can see that the coral is irritated a little. Fish never show any sign of problem with having tank pH spike up due to kalk addition.

I think otherwise. Frequent pH instability/fluctuation can affect your fish (ich!) /clam and coral health.