For Sale posting Issues

[edshas2]

Ok why close the last thread when people are still discussing the topic, just cause you dont like what is being discussed is not a reason close a topic, nobody is being disrespectfull, its a discussion that applies to alot of us "web members" only, and after the thread is closed then another moderator decides to chime in with his input with nobody able to respond.

" i am unable to comprehend why "we" spend so much money on our tanks, yet balk at the thought of contributing financially to the organization that aids in making our successes possible. is $25 a year really that much money for you to pay? Aggman"

Well I do have a 29bio, that i do love to take care off and yes this is an expensive hobby, but 25dollars to me is alot of money even if its not to alot of other people, which is why the for sale forums is so great. Anyways i have tought alot about being a charter member but there is alot of stuff that seems to go on that i dont really like which is why i prefer to stay on the outside mostly. I do offer my input on topics that i think could help someone but leave most of that to many of you that are alot more versed in this hobby.

"and if your intention for joing the club truly was to learn and grow as a hobbyist, then theoreticially you could stay a web-member forever and get all the benfits of maast and the rules regarding selling/trading wouldn't matter to you. Aggman"

How can you say that if somebodys intention is to learn and grow as a hobbbyist then rules regarding for sale forums would not matter to you, that is what this whole topic is about. Becouse these rules are affecting us.

Dont mean to ruffle feathers but just think this stuff should said and not hidden away from other members eyes.

[cpreefguy]

Understood, let's keep this going in a productive manner.
$25 is a lot to some people, me included, but the discounts I received at stores that offer MAAST discounts paid for the membership in no time, not to mention discounts and free entry to some MAAST events, like the Zoo and the collection trip. Money aside, this is a valuable resource that I can't put a dollar amount on.

One thing I didn't mention on the other thread, is that we are trying to attract quality members such as yourself that will add their input and help MAAST grow. Members that come here to sell are not productive members. Sure, we all like getting good deals, but that is not looking at the bigger picture.

We went through and cleaned up old web member accounts that had not been active for the past 2 years and thousands of accounts were deleted as a result. Those were mostly accounts where someone came here to sell an item or two and never came back. This messes up the perception of the membership.
The more quality, contributing members that MAAST can attract, the more sponsors we can get. Which in turn benefits all members in the form of meetings, events, etc...

[subsailor]

Ok why close the last thread when people are still discussing the topic, just cause you dont like what is being discussed is not a reason close a topic, nobody is being disrespectfull, its a discussion that applies to alot of us "web members" only, and after the thread is closed then another moderator decides to chime in with his input with nobody able to respond.

First off it was not closed because "I DIDN'T LIKE IT" it was closed because the point has been taken and the BOD is working toward a resolution.
Second off The guy that chimed in is a BOD and was giving a MAAST statement, not another moderator.

[JTrott]

The more quality, contributing members that MAAST can attract, the more sponsors we can get. Which in turn benefits all members in the form of meetings, events, etc...

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but why would someone want to PAY to sponsor this site if members can sell amongst themselves. Doesn't that take money away from Sponsorship Paying sponsors? Just a thought. No matter how many "quality, contributing members" that MAAST has, there will always be someone selling something. That takes money away from the sponsor LFS or the online sponsors. Doesn't seem right for the sponsors to have to compete with the members.

If I had a say here, I would say that no members should be allowed to sell anything. That is what CL and Ebay is for. This is SUPPOSED to be an eductional community, not a swap meet.

MY OPINION........To the web members that do have a problem with not being able to sell stuff......THEN DON'T COME HERE. Isn't MAAST an eductional forum FIRST. If this forum happens to get rid of the For Sale section, then you will TRULY know who your "quality, contributing members" are.

[aggman]

actually, the thread was closed because it was going in a totally different direction than what was originally posted. that's it. and subsailor's last posted said exactly that. please don't add anything more to it.

as for my post, if you would go back and look at the last two posts, you will notice the timestamp at the top of each post. it clearly states that we posted at the same time. i too noticed this and i figured someone would create an issue of it...

and reread the post. the new rules would not restrict web members from purchasing items. it would prevent them from selling them. we have explained this 20 times in the last two weeks. and i think the point of the second quote is pretty clear, if you are here to learn and grow your knowledge base, then you won't be focused on selling or buying these would be afterthoughts, so yes these rules would not have a direct impact on you.

~alex

[Pennies2Cents]

EDSHAS2

Please understand that we the BOD are currently trying to work on a solution to make MAAST a better place for all of our members to enjoy. I do understand your thoughts and everyone is entitled their opinion. However I ask this thread along with others be kept in a productive manner.

[subsailor]

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but why would someone want to PAY to sponsor this site if members can sell amongst themselves. Doesn't that take money away from Sponsorship Paying sponsors? Just a thought. No matter how many "quality, contributing members" that MAAST has, there will always be someone selling something. That takes money away from the sponsor LFS or the online sponsors. Doesn't seem right for the sponsors to have to compete with the members.

If I had a say here, I would say that no members should be allowed to sell anything. That is what CL and Ebay is for. This is SUPPOSED to be an eductional community, not a swap meet.

MY OPINION........To the web members that do have a problem with not being able to sell stuff......THEN DON'T COME HERE. Isn't MAAST an eductional forum FIRST. If this forum happens to get rid of the For Sale section, then you will TRULY know who your "quality, contributing members" are.
The sponsor stuff again? You have stated your opinion several times and we understand you are a sponsor you don't like any selling. Thats all fine and Dandy.
MAAST IS NOT HERE FOR THE SPONSORS WE ARE HERE FOR THE HOBBYIST. MAAST is not here to make or break a retail location.There is many sponsors out there happy to advertise to their intended audience. It does not take away from retail sales. it does not hurt the sponsors feelings (in most cases) Look at the required amount to sponsor reef central per month and look at how much gets sold there a day for an example.

[JTrott]

The sponsor stuff again? You have stated your opinion several times and we understand you are a sponsor you don't like any selling. Thats all fine and Dandy.


I am a sponsor? Then why does it say Web Member below my name? I just think that this is an eductional community not a swap meet. What's wrong with that? Just my opinion........

And you being on the Sponsorship Committee, you should be doing everything you can to help make the sponsors happy. Have the sponsors been contacted to see how they feel about it? Working in a sponsor store, don't you see that every tank that gets sold on here is 1 sale that the store you work at, who is a sponsor, is not gonna get?

[cpreefguy]

I am a sponsor? Then why does it say Web Member below my name? I just think that this is an eductional community not a swap meet. What's wrong with that? Just my opinion........

I show the email address that you registered under is ............... so yes, that would make you a sponsor

[Pennies2Cents]

Again, lets keep this civil. And stay productive.

Our Purpose:
1. Encourage the growth of the marine aquarium hobby in South Texas;
2. Educate and inform members and the public about care, keeping and propagation of marine invertebrates and fish;
3. Prevent abuse to marine animals in general, and to conserve the marine environment by promoting intelligent, planned reef management systems;
4. Promote higher standards of health and care provided by local commercial outlets;
5. Organize workshops, seminars and discussions related to all aspects of the hobby; 6. Raise and generate funds and create financial resources to meet these goals; and
7. Coordinate with and support similar societies devoted to like-minded interests.

[JTrott]

I show the email address that you registered under is ............@......... so yes, that would make you a sponsor

What does that have to do with anything. Just because I work at a store, I can't have an opinion. Subsailor works at a store, does that make him a sponsor, if so, he cannot be on the BOD. That is a conflict of interest isn't it? Sorry to pick on you subsailor, but it just happens that this is the way it works.

Jason

[cpreefguy]

I'd really like for this to stay on topic as to have a productive thread. Subsailor is not on the BOD.

[JTrott]

I'd really like for this to stay on topic as to have a productive thread. Subsailor is not on the BOD.

But he is a moderator........

[subsailor]

I am a sponsor? Then why does it say Web Member below my name? I just think that this is an eductional community not a swap meet. What's wrong with that? Just my opinion........

And you being on the Sponsorship Committee, you should be doing everything you can to help make the sponsors happy. Have the sponsors been contacted to see how they feel about it? Working in a sponsor store, don't you see that every tank that gets sold on here is 1 sale that the store you work at, who is a sponsor, is not gonna get?

I am on the sponsorship committee and I do a very good job at keeping in touch with all the sponsors I have brought to MAAST. For every one person that looks at your banner that is potentially one person that never new about your store that might now come visit. It is not about selling tanks. Yes I do work nearat a store and I see people go in there from MAAST that never would have come in and purchased anything had it not been for MAAST. It is about advertising and marketing. As in doing sponsorship stuff I do and wil continue to have good quality Sponsors who wan't to advertise to a clientelle that they specialize in carrying goods for.

[subsailor]

What does that have to do with anything. Just because I work at a store, I can't have an opinion. Subsailor works at a store, does that make him a sponsor, if so, he cannot be on the BOD. That is a conflict of interest isn't it? Sorry to pick on you subsailor, but it just happens that this is the way it works.

Jason
I no longer work at the critter shop. I am now the general manager for Amkon General Store. I will continue to help people at the critter shop, however I am employed by a different entity. Thanks for asking.

[JTrott]

I no longer work at the critter shop. I am now the general manager for Amkon General Store. I will continue to help people at the critter shop, however I am employed by a different entity. Thanks for asking.

WOW.......found a way around it........very clever of you......nice job. You beat the system just like some of the other Web Members.

[Neptune@gabesfish]

I am on the sponsorship committee and I do a very good job at keeping in touch with all the sponsors I have brought to MAAST.

I dont remember talking to you at all while I was becoming a sponser.!!
And since you are so good at keeping up with your sponsors .. When does my sponsorship end?..

[subsailor]

WOW.......found a way around it........very clever of you......nice job. You beat the system just like some of the other Web Members.

Are you questioning my character? A way around it? A way around the volunteer work I do for MAAST seriously? If you want to continue this conversation feel free to take it to PM or in person...

[subsailor]

Feb 5 2010

[cpreefguy]

Yes guys, please take any further conversation to PM. If this thread continues down this path it will have to be locked

[subsailor]

Neptune PM Sent

[edshas2]

Everyone has an opinion but it doesnt seem like people here like to hear other peoples opinions on subjects, this is one of the reasons becoming a charter member has always been in doubt for me, i really do like maast alot but its to easy to make someone mad and for people to take things to personally, I will continue to help people when i feel i can but i really hope this issue can be solved.

[JTrott]

Are you questioning my character? A way around it? A way around the volunteer work I do for MAAST seriously? If you want to continue this conversation feel free to take it to PM or in person...

Is that a threat....I thought threats were not allowed.......sounds like you want to continue this in person. I think that the BOD needs to look closely at this.....I feel threatened.

[justahobby]

It's good that we are able to continue a thread related to the topic at hand. I have been involved in conversations before that someone felt was offhand. It can be aggravating when someone disagrees with what is "on topic". Sadly this thread is getting off to a rocky start.

I really think the issue at hand is NOT about the cost, as stated before not everyone wants to sign up for the politics associated with becoming a charter member. Its more for the principle of the matter. Priveleges being taken away for a smaller percentage of the populations abusing the forum.

I propose this: Instead of a "yes, no, or maybe" to up the ante there could be polls of choices regarding the matter. And not necessarily pick one. But perhaps choose a few or all....Such as a vote for
1. "X" amount of time
2. Contributions (services or community service)
3. Only aquarium related selling
4. Attending "X" amount of MAAST meetings and events


My favorite being the #1 and #4. Even two weeks would be enough to deter exploiters?

[JTrott]

Yes guys, please take any further conversation to PM. If this thread continues down this path it will have to be locked

I think that you guys need to stay on topic. I am not the one that started the conversation about who I am. I was simply giving my opinion. If I read this correctly, it was a MOD that took this off topic discussing who I am and am not.

[princer7]

I propose this: Instead of a "yes, no, or maybe" to up the ante there could be polls of choices regarding the matter. And not necessarily pick one. But perhaps choose a few or all....Such as a vote for
1. "X" amount of time
2. Contributions (services or community service)
3. Only aquarium related selling
4. Attending "X" amount of MAAST meetings and events


My favorite being the #1 and #4. Even two weeks would be enough to deter exploiters?

The only way that any political system will ever change is to get involved. Web Members have no say with what happens with the club. This is a choice everyone has the right to - but when it comes to complaints as to how things are run or what the rules are.... you have made your choice by not becoming a member. :wink_smile:

This topic has run it's course in the past few weeks. The BOD is working on a solution.

[txav8r]

I agree 100%. There is no use in beating a dead horse. Let's all just sit back and wait for the BOD to come up with a plan and go from there.

[MRSBIGBIRD123]

Is that a threat....I thought threats were not allowed.......sounds like you want to continue this in person. I think that the BOD needs to look closely at this.....I feel threatened.


I don't see this as a threat, I see it an invitation to continue the communication, so that this thread can remain on topic.

[JTrott]

I don't see this as a threat, I see it an invitation to continue the communication, so that this thread can remain on topic.

No offense Cheri, and please do not take it that way, but subsailor took it off topic. I was keeping it on topic.

Obviously my views/opinions are not wanted/accepted because I am a "sponsor". Therefore, I will log out, and will not be logging in again. Obviously, I cannot be a member of this forum without being viewed as a "sponsor". My fault for trying to express my opinion.

I apologize,
Jason

[Kristy]

Good grief... what is this thread even about again?

1. Were we even close to the 20% vote? I was one who did not vote, NOT because I do not care about the direction of MAAST... but because I was really torn about the issue and could see both sides of it, was hoping for more discussion of the issue to help me decide which direction I would vote, and I keep struggling to understand how limiting selling to charters only really addresses what the actual problem is. Then suddenly the deadline was over and I had not voted (LAME, I know).

I wonder if (in future votes like this one) we could extend it until we reach the 20%, maybe even send out reminder pms to the charters about the deadline approaching, etc.? Or if there were some way to discuss it in a meeting and have a vote there?

2. Re: sponsorship issues... My husband and I definitely frequent the LFS and choose where we spend our $$ in the hopes of keeping our LFS sponsors' doors open and in business. It is a VERY deliberate decision. All of the LFS that we frequent we have learned about from MAAST, every single one of them.

The sort of conduct that has been going on in this thread today really reflects upon a business, and sponsors should think twice about their public behaviors. Customers may not want to associate with a business person who has been behaving this way. Let's play nice! :)

-Kristy

[LoneStar]

Then suddenly the deadline was over and I had not voted (LAME, I know).

I know what you are saying and perhaps there could be a email sent out to charter members about the open poll. But as it is, the vote was open for 7 days (1 week).

[Kristy]

I know what you are saying and perhaps there could be a email sent out to charter members about the open poll. But as it is, the vote was open for 7 days (1 week).

Yep... like I said, LAME!

I was just trying to acknowledge that I SHOULD have voted and wanted to, but was really struggling with the issue, wasn't sure that it actually answered the problem.

[aggman]

kristy you were right on target that the vote didn't exactly solve the problems we are currently dealing with. and that might be our [the BOD's] fault. we probably should have made it clear that the vote was only the first step. we have come up with a few key issues that were to be addressed and we truly are working to make this forum great for everyone. it just takes time to address eveyone's concerns, a fact apparently lost on some folks. we will continue to work on it.

~alex

[Bill S]

I just want to go on record that I JUST NOW discovered this thread, and I had nothing to do with it.:shades::shades::shades:

[LoneStar]

Yep... like I said, LAME!

I was just trying to acknowledge that I SHOULD have voted and wanted to, but was really struggling with the issue, wasn't sure that it actually answered the problem.

LOL no worries.

[aquasport24]

I just want to go on record that I JUST NOW discovered this thread, and I had nothing to do with it.:shades::shades::shades:

:lmao2:Ok Bill , you can stay and play...you don't have to go back to the hole today...:bigsmile:

[captexas]

I just want to go on record that I JUST NOW discovered this thread, and I had nothing to do with it.:shades::shades::shades:

Me either! :ph34r: :bigsmile:

As some of you know, I'm all for a good argument, but this has been beaten to death. As a former BOD, former charter member, and a web member, I know there will always be someone that isn't happy with whatever decision is made on an issue. This site wasn't created for the sponsors or to compete with Ebay or Craigslist. The For Sale forums are a benefit of the site to it's members, both web and charter. That said, that benefit can be abused at times and it appears the current goal of the BOD is to prevent people using the site only to sell/buy items. If people only want to do that, that is what a sponsorsip membership is for. Yes, some of the rules are going to affect members, especially web members as far as the post count idea, but if you truly want to be involved in the club and enjoy the full benefits of it, then you have to pay your dues, either paying for the charter membership or becoming involved in the community, posting/joining in discussions here. If you don't want to do that and all you care about is buying/selling, then go to your Ebay and Craigslist and have at it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

The current BOD says they are working on a resolution, so give them some time. They are not staring at the site 24hours a day. Some of them do have jobs and lives and it takes time for all of them to get a chance to discuss the situation and work out a solution.

[Texreefer]

I just want to go on record that I JUST NOW discovered this thread, and I had nothing to do with it.:shades::shades::shades:


:rofl::bigsmile:

[tony]

Me either! :ph34r: :bigsmile:

As some of you know, I'm all for a good argument, but this has been beaten to death. As a former BOD, former charter member, and a web member, I know there will always be someone that isn't happy with whatever decision is made on an issue. This site wasn't created for the sponsors or to compete with Ebay or Craigslist. The For Sale forums are a benefit of the site to it's members, both web and charter. That said, that benefit can be abused at times and it appears the current goal of the BOD is to prevent people using the site only to sell/buy items. If people only want to do that, that is what a sponsorsip membership is for. Yes, some of the rules are going to affect members, especially web members as far as the post count idea, but if you truly want to be involved in the club and enjoy the full benefits of it, then you have to pay your dues, either paying for the charter membership or becoming involved in the community, posting/joining in discussions here. If you don't want to do that and all you care about is buying/selling, then go to your Ebay and Craigslist and have at it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

The current BOD says they are working on a resolution, so give them some time. They are not staring at the site 24hours a day. Some of them do have jobs and lives and it takes time for all of them to get a chance to discuss the situation and work out a solution.

well said

[LoneStar]

well said

:thumbs_up: