Do you think any of this coral will survive?

[Teeb]

This is what's left after my crash last night. Does any of this look like it will survive? Excuse the diatom bloom, whatever happened last night really made it come out today.


http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/davisfamily2009/DSC00271.jpghttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/davisfamily2009/DSC00272.jpghttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/davisfamily2009/DSC00274.jpg
http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/davisfamily2009/DSC00275.jpghttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/davisfamily2009/DSC00273.jpghttp://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/davisfamily2009/DSC00277.jpg

[Texreefer]

Looks like with some maintenance and water changes that they will recover

[Squiers007]

In my opinion none of them look "terrible" but if it were me I would probably remove as much as I could and put it into a temporary quarantine tank until you get the problem figured out. How long has the tank been set up for?

[danny]

yeah throw them in your hospital tank......doh!

[cpreefguy]

As texreefer said, just keep up with the tank and water quality. None of them look terrible, just a little mad at the moment. Good luck, keep us updated.

[Bill S]

OK, 3 days before your tank crashed, your Ammonia was 0.50, and your nitrites were 0.25. As I indicated at the time, those numbers are kind of critical - as in critical to the lifeforms in your tank.

At that time, I indicated that I thought your tank wasn't completely cycled. I still don't.

I'd find a temporary home for the rest of your livestock, until you can sort this out completely.

[Texreefer]

OK, 3 days before your tank crashed, your Ammonia was 0.50, and your nitrites were 0.25. As I indicated at the time, those numbers are kind of critical - as in critical to the lifeforms in your tank.

At that time, I indicated that I thought your tank wasn't completely cycled. I still don't.

I'd find a temporary home for the rest of your livestock, until you can sort this out completely.

Didn't see that thread!.. you are Right on the money Bill!

[Bill S]

Didn't see that thread!.. you are Right on the money Bill!

Yes, I think it is too, Mike. I pretty much only respond to "Help" posts anymore. Seems like some folks believe I don't contribute enough to MAAST. But, I can't just sit by and let newbies flounder. We've all been there before!

[Squiers007]

Any news on the tank today? Also, as bstreep indicated are you still cycling?

[Neptune@gabesfish]

OK, 3 days before your tank crashed, your Ammonia was 0.50, and your nitrites were 0.25. As I indicated at the time, those numbers are kind of critical - as in critical to the lifeforms in your tank.

At that time, I indicated that I thought your tank wasn't completely cycled. I still don't.

I'd find a temporary home for the rest of your livestock, until you can sort this out completely.


Going to have to agree with Bill on this one.. Come on guys remember a true nitrogen cycle can take up to 8 weeks.. Take your time,there is no rush.

[Teeb]

Since the crash, I've been at
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Ph: between 7.9 - 8.1


I really don't think I'm still cycling. Everything seems to be doing all right. I'm still fishless and will probably stay that way for another couple weeks to be on the safe side. I need to test again tonight and will post results, but I don't expect much different.

[danny]

Going to have to agree with Bill on this one.. Come on guys remember a true nitrogen cycle can take up to 8 weeks.. Take your time,there is no rush.

Yeah Steve.

[Teeb]

Yeah Steve.


I'm learning this......

which is contrary to everything else I do.

[Neptune@gabesfish]

What test kit do you use? Too many times we have seen zero across the board on readings.. Come on people maybe we should have a thread for members to post REAL parameters ..All I know is ours have never and I will say again NEVER been at 0 nitrates..

[carlinsa]

according to the test kit i have it says the normal nitrates i think its nitrates are supposed to be 40

[Teeb]

I use the API kit, I guess that's not a REAL kit?

[Neptune@gabesfish]

That might be the problem. You might want to try a different kit (Ocean Master,Salifert,ETC...)..

[Bill S]

No, API is not a real kit.

Try Salifert.

I'd venture to say, that if you posted an anonymous poll of long-time reefers, you would find the real range on nitrates of from 10-40ppm. When I had my SPS packed tank, I struggled to keep it below 25: http://www.maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42181&highlight=streep

[Neptune@gabesfish]

Thank you sir, I said "THANK YOU" ...

[danny]

Why don't ya'll cut the guy some slack? He's apparently new to the hobby and bought a test kit he saw at the store probably thinking a test kit is a test kit. Ya'll crack on him like he's supposed to know what a "real" kit is as opposed to a "not real" kit. No reason to be snooty about it. It's that kind of attitude that makes people feel stupid to ask for advice.

[H2Ochem]

Why don't ya'll cut the guy some slack? He's apparently new to the hobby and bought a test kit he saw at the store probably thinking a test kit is a test kit. Ya'll crack on him like he's supposed to know what a "real" kit is as opposed to a "not real" kit. No reason to be snooty about it. It's that kind of attitude that makes people feel stupid to ask for advice.


I don't see anyone "cracking" on the guy. Think they just gave an opinion or advise to help out. As far as test kits go all can be hit or miss. So, as mentioned by another poster have two to verify. In addition you always want a trace of nitrates. The level being bio load dependent.

[stoneroller]

I'd say take a sample down to the LFS and get it tested for free ASAP.

[corydrysdale]

Who's to say their's is not way off. I recently took my calcium reading with a SeaChem text kit (kit looks like a first aid kit, with the powders and the drops) My calcium level was 180 when i tested it. I had been dripping lime water for 2 weeks in a attempt to bring it up. No luck. Started dosing with Turbo Calcium and a week later tested with the SeaChem and it showed 350ish... Took said water sample to LFS and they stated probably over 1000 !!! My kit is 6 months old so who knows anymore. No idea how long they sit on the shelf before there bought. Any way, just thought id share my story.

[danny]

I've been to two different LFS where I've seen them using the very same API kits when I brought them some of my water to test. I have taken my water to Jason at AD (real test kit) shortly after running my own tests with a fake kit and found my results almost identical. Just my two cents.

[Noober]

being a noob I cant really help much, my 1 year saltwater anniversery is coming up soon...... I can say I've seen zoanthids last through pretty much anything. I once had a quarintine tank that I took everything out of on a tank move, and I left two 3-6 polyp frags of some zoas I had 3 100+ polyp colonies of in there. There was no flow, no light, no filteration, and a heck of a film on the top of the water for close to 2 months. a couple nassiserius (note i cant spell and dont even try) snails that were in there and the zoas made it fine lol, I threw them into my display tank the other day as a test and they opened up, their color is bleached from what a healthy frag would look like but none the less they seem to be getting better week by week. ps a chunk of a montipora frag that was left in there was dead within the first week. Anyway sorry about the crash and good luck with the recovery! Hope I'm not missing anything but I'm wondering what caused the crash? - Matt

[Noober]

ps, so far, and i hope I havnt been doing anything wrong, but my algae is not much of a problem, a weekly clean on the glass and I'm good. I use sailfert for calcium mag and alk. for nitrate nitrite and ammonia i use api. their ph test kit (api) always matches with my ph probe on my neptune aqua controller. Everytime i check my water pollution, i assume that when my api test kit shows 0 nitrates, that it means that it is within an acceptable range... I dont see how it could ever be actually 0, i am a noobie, but if the nitrogen cycle is taking place, there has to be a by product of it at times, even with a good protien skimmer, chemical media reactor, and plenty of benifical bactera (nitrifiying). I've got all of that plus a refuge with chato and mangroves and some other macro algaes. I still get algae on the glass, what else is it feeding from? my reactors have phos and slilicate absorbers as well as nitratie ammonia and nitrite, not to mention the natural absorbers in the fuge.... I hope I am correct in assuming that a 0 on the nitrate level is indicating that its within a safe range, mabe I should spend more on the pollutiant test kits.... anyone have any ideas on this?

[Bill S]

Why don't ya'll cut the guy some slack? He's apparently new to the hobby and bought a test kit he saw at the store probably thinking a test kit is a test kit. Ya'll crack on him like he's supposed to know what a "real" kit is as opposed to a "not real" kit. No reason to be snooty about it. It's that kind of attitude that makes people feel stupid to ask for advice.

There's a reason why folks bad mouth SOME manufacture's test kits. Yes, the stores DO use API and others. BUT, they have the luxury of this: When they open a brand new test kit, they compare it against another kit. That way, they know that the kit they are using, works. Also, they run tests several times a day, every day. Their reagents are fresh - and this is the bane of just about every test kit out there. We learn very early on, in bio lab, that reagents are critical - and they are generally made fresh, in a lab.

So, the reason why you will see Salifert so highly recommended, is that they produce a top quality test kit, and the reagents are designed specifically for shelf life. They don't last forever, but they will outlast the others, several times. Are they expensive? Heck yeah - about as much for ONE test as others charge for a "Professional Kit".

I look at it this way: Even if you have a small tank, you've spent $100s of dollars on the livestock. Aren't they worth it? I chased an Alkalinity problem a few years ago, and was testing with a pretty decent kit (not Salifert). I found out the kit was showing only 1/2 the actually alkalinity. The company replaced the reagents - but what the heck?

BTW, I worked in a LFS for 8 years. Just because they do something, doesn't necessarily mean it's right...

As for the OP - he's already used to me (I hope!). I think he knows we're trying to help. I TRIED to get him remove his livestock several days before his tank crashed.

[H2Ochem]

There's a reason why folks bad mouth SOME manufacture's test kits. Yes, the stores DO use API and others. BUT, they have the luxury of this: When they open a brand new test kit, they compare it against another kit. That way, they know that the kit they are using, works. Also, they run tests several times a day, every day. Their reagents are fresh - and this is the bane of just about every test kit out there. We learn very early on, in bio lab, that reagents are critical - and they are generally made fresh, in a lab.

So, the reason why you will see Salifert so highly recommended, is that they produce a top quality test kit, and the reagents are designed specifically for shelf life. They don't last forever, but they will outlast the others, several times. Are they expensive? Heck yeah - about as much for ONE test as others charge for a "Professional Kit".

I look at it this way: Even if you have a small tank, you've spent $100s of dollars on the livestock. Aren't they worth it? I chased an Alkalinity problem a few years ago, and was testing with a pretty decent kit (not Salifert). I found out the kit was showing only 1/2 the actually alkalinity. The company replaced the reagents - but what the heck?

BTW, I worked in a LFS for 8 years. Just because they do something, doesn't necessarily mean it's right...

As for the OP - he's already used to me (I hope!). I think he knows we're trying to help. I TRIED to get him remove his livestock several days before his tank crashed.

No offense but I've been in a few labs myself. Have too say that reagents come from a limited number of manufactures for there specific apps. Where and how they get there is a whole new game.Please dont think that a 30 dollar test kit does not have the same reagent that a 10 dollar test kit does. ....kinda like RO/DI filters....theres only a few players out there...

Just my experience. Your milage may vary.

[Bill S]

No offense but I've been in a few labs myself. Have too say that reagents come from a limited number of manufactures for there specific apps. Where and how they get there is a whole new game.Please dont think that a 30 dollar test kit does not have the same reagent that a 10 dollar test kit does. ....kinda like RO/DI filters....theres only a few players out there...

Just my experience. Your milage may vary.

I have owned maybe 200 test kits. Plus or minus 100 in the 35+ years I've been keeping saltwater fish. Oh, and I'm a molecular biologist, by education. Until about 5 years ago, I too used API, Seachem and others. After chasing non-existent problems, I switched. I'd never go back.

And NO, the Salifert test kits are NOT just like the others. For instance, the Nitrate Salifert kit uses 2 powdered reagents. By not hydrating them (as others do), AND by keeping them dry, they last much, much longer. Ever notice that API kits are in white bottles? In a lab, do you keep reagents in white bottles, or exposed to light? Since you've worked in a lab, you'll note that reagents are dated. If you make them up yourself, you also date them. Do you own any Salifert kits? Some of the Salifert tests are extremely complicated. Many involve titration. The iodine kit is probably one of the few on the market. People don't spend $28 on a single test kit just to brag about owning it...

BTW, IF you have to buy a kit off the shelf, reach to the back for the newest one. That's what the LFSs do...

[Squiers007]

A little off topic, but bstreep, you said you were a molecular biologist and I was just curious if you were still working as one and where you went to school at? I am also a molecular biologist so its always good to meet others with the same interests.

And just to throw in my 2 cents about test kits. IMO the only way to go to get truly accurate results is to use a a spectrophotometer instrument like the ones made by Hanna that read the "color" for you and use powdered reagents as well. These are very expensive but will give you the most accurate results short of using an even more expensive nutrient analyzer.

[Bill S]

A little off topic, but bstreep, you said you were a molecular biologist and I was just curious if you were still working as one and where you went to school at? I am also a molecular biologist so its always good to meet others with the same interests.

And just to throw in my 2 cents about test kits. IMO the only way to go to get truly accurate results is to use a a spectrophotometer instrument like the ones made by Hanna that read the "color" for you and use powdered reagents as well. These are very expensive but will give you the most accurate results short of using an even more expensive nutrient analyzer.

No, I'm now a Real Estate Appraiser. I was in a PhD Program in Molecular Genetics at Rice University, in Houston. I left and got a real job at the end of my first year - there were folks getting their PhDs from Rice and not finding jobs!

Yes, one of the other problems with test kits that use color charts, is that depending upon lighting and individual eyes, we see them differently! That might make a good MAAST topic for a meeting - and do some tests, pass them around and see how much variation we get between observers!

[Squiers007]

No, I'm now a Real Estate Appraiser. I was in a PhD Program in Molecular Genetics at Rice University, in Houston. I left and got a real job at the end of my first year - there were folks getting their PhDs from Rice and not finding jobs!

Yes, one of the other problems with test kits that use color charts, is that depending upon lighting and individual eyes, we see them differently! That might make a good MAAST topic for a meeting - and do some tests, pass them around and see how much variation we get between observers!

Oh ok, I just got my MS in Biology from A&M here in Corpus and will be starting the PhD program in Sept. I plan on going into academics so I'm hoping finding a job wont be terrible. My main focus is on coral genetics and more specifically Hydrozoans. For my Thesis I did DNA sequencing of two species of Fire Coral from the Bahamas to look at relatedness.

I do think that your idea of testing for differences in the colors people see would be a fun experiment and I'm sure that there would be plenty variation in everyones results.