RO/DI units

[ballardjr2000]

Ok i know what and the importance of RO/DI units are etc. what i don't understand is i see some with pumps and some without. now the question is do you need a pump with all of them. or do some work of the normal pressure from say a garden hose fitting etc.

[Jonthefishguy]

Pumps are used to increase the pressure if your city water pressure is too low and needs a boost. The unit does not work efficiently if the pressure is too low.

[ballardjr2000]

Ok got it. so one may or may not be needed all depending on water pressure of the source. well i look at it like 4wheel drive better have and not need then need and not have. lol

[dipan]

Another good reason to have a booster pump is to increase pressure to the membrane. It can be setup so that it keeps 80-90 PSI at the membrane. That is, after the sediment/carbon block prefilters, where some pressure loss will occur. The booster will also maintain your water pressure and consequent efficiency even if you're flushing a toilet, taking a shower, watering the lawn, etc. when some pressure loss will happen even if your static water pressure is good ...

A good idea, IMHO ...

[Squiers007]

Not to thread jack, but what pressure do you want to maintain and what would be the low end cutoff to where you would want to consider a pump? Thanks.

[TexasRedneck]

Generally speaking, minimum water supply pressure for small (20-50 gpd) RO systems is 40 psi. Higher pressures ARE helpful - but I'd be VERY reluctant to install such inside a home! Generally speaking, the types of fittings usually used are pretty cheap, and consequently leaks are not at all uncommon. Personally, I prefer ANY RO system to be located in the garage in an area where leakage can occur without causing damage - because sooner or later , it WILL leak - period.

Look at the average small RO, and count the connections - the average connection has at least two leak points - the threaded part and the part where the tubing or piping connects. The push-type connections commonly found are, IMO, some of the worst offenders - but manufacturers love 'em because they're cheap and assemble fast, makin' labor costs lower. The fact that they leak in a couple of years isn't their problem - but at this time, no one is using the better-quality fittings because to do so would put their price points too high and folks won't buy them.
They also make a inlet valve that installs inline (1/4" tubing in/out) and mounts on the floor, and if a leak occurs it shuts the water supply off. They run about $20-25 and aren't reusable (if they "trip", you have to replace them) - but it's cheaper than water damage!

[dipan]

I'm gonna have to disagree with your put-down of John Guest type fittings. I've never had one leak in over five years and four RO systems ... Small sample size, probably, but these fittings are solid ...

That said, I do think it's a good idea to put them in a garage if possible ... just in case.

[txav8r]

John guest fittings pass the federal aviation administration standards fir use I. Pressurization fittings but only up to 18 psig. Just a little info. Not taking sides.

[TexasRedneck]

No offense taken - after all, we don't know each other, so there's no way of knowing background. I've been doing water purification and treatment since 1976 - everything from softening to ultrafiltration. I've designed and installed everything from plating shops to pharmaceutical systems. I've screwed up by the numbers, too - I am an Honors Graduate of the University of Hard Knocks!:bigsmile:

I currently have about 5-600 RO units out - everything from 1,000 up to 100,000 gallons per day. The RO's are commercially made (IOW, no - I don't make 'em), but I've been involved with redesign of 'em over the years. I don't say all this to boast, but rather to give you an idea as to my background and where I'm coming from - because yes - I DO tend to "overbuild". So I try to be cautious when I approach something designed for residential use, and remember that it's not made to be nearly as robust as a commercial unit. That's why I said that while I don't like 'em, pretty much everyone uses 'em.

I see a lot of them fail - not when new, but 2-4 years down the road - because I service some residential units with the fittings on them, and I can ASSURE you that the failure rate is significant enough that they'd never go on a unit in my house - but bear in mind that I say that knowing I'd spend a good 20-30 bucks in fittings and several hours labor by the time it's over and done with. But, that's fine for ME - it's worth it. Most folks don't consider it to be worth it, and that's okay too - it's their house!:wink_smile:

Generally speaking, when I'm working with JG fittings and removing/replacing tubine, I replace the fitting as well. Overkill? Maybe - but remember that they seal because of an o-ring which WILL compress over time - so taking the tubing out and reinstalling it will often result in a leak, and I hate going on a "call-back"!

[mikedelgado]

what type of fittings do you replace them with?

[Third Coast Tropical]

:applause:

very interesting feedback and good topic....

good thread

[dipan]

No offense taken - after all, we don't know each other, so there's no way of knowing background. I've been doing water purification and treatment since 1976 - everything from softening to ultrafiltration. I've designed and installed everything from plating shops to pharmaceutical systems. I've screwed up by the numbers, too - I am an Honors Graduate of the University of Hard Knocks!:bigsmile:

I currently have about 5-600 RO units out - everything from 1,000 up to 100,000 gallons per day. The RO's are commercially made (IOW, no - I don't make 'em), but I've been involved with redesign of 'em over the years. I don't say all this to boast, but rather to give you an idea as to my background and where I'm coming from - because yes - I DO tend to "overbuild". So I try to be cautious when I approach something designed for residential use, and remember that it's not made to be nearly as robust as a commercial unit. That's why I said that while I don't like 'em, pretty much everyone uses 'em.

I see a lot of them fail - not when new, but 2-4 years down the road - because I service some residential units with the fittings on them, and I can ASSURE you that the failure rate is significant enough that they'd never go on a unit in my house - but bear in mind that I say that knowing I'd spend a good 20-30 bucks in fittings and several hours labor by the time it's over and done with. But, that's fine for ME - it's worth it. Most folks don't consider it to be worth it, and that's okay too - it's their house!:wink_smile:

Generally speaking, when I'm working with JG fittings and removing/replacing tubine, I replace the fitting as well. Overkill? Maybe - but remember that they seal because of an o-ring which WILL compress over time - so taking the tubing out and reinstalling it will often result in a leak, and I hate going on a "call-back"!

OK OK ... so you've got some experience :) What fittings do you suggest for a home system then? The compression type fittings?

I've looked into alternatives to JG speedfits and found that the acetal versions have higher pressure ratings, but still a single o-ring seal. The Mur-lok fittings have double o-ring seals and similar pressure ratings. I don't know about the Jaco fittings, but never really liked them because they are the compression type, though probably sturdier. What would you use in a residential setting? I have two RO units under two sinks in the house and I'm thinking about swapping to Mur-loks just as a preventative measure.

[TexasRedneck]

I prefer the Parker "Fast-N-Tite" fittings. Jaco's I avoid. None of 'em are perfect, but the Parker's I routinely run at 2-300 psi without a problem.

[BuckeyeHydro]

Back to the original question - I'd not purposely buy a system with a pump. Get a system w/o one, and if needed, you can always add one later.

Russ

[corydrysdale]

Great information here guys. Ive been hobbying for 1.5 years and am currently thinking of an R/O system. Never thought about putting one in my garage! Is there any particular type of system that you could recommend? There seems to be as many types of systems as there are chemical testing kits. Ive got a 125 gallon Reef system, but hoping to move up to 200 in the near future. How many stages should i be looking for and for that matter, which brand seems to last? Currently im doing about 30-40 gallons of water change every 1.5 weeks. I know the biggest draw back is the waste water that the system rejects. How do you guys recycle that into usable water and not just waste it?
Thanks for any info you can give to a somewhat nube.

[BuckeyeHydro]

Rather than put it in your garage, I'd rather see you put it in your basement, if that is an option.

Russ

[TexasRedneck]

There's a ton of 'em out there - check w/Sam's for one that's pretty inexpensive and fairly user-friendly. I sell 'em - but not as cheaply as Sam's does, and what they have should do the job for you. The water waste is simply the nature of the beast, until you get into larger (and more expensive - $500 to 1k) units which will allow you to recover up to 75% of the feed water. With either one, a softener is a good idea - but with the high recovery units, a softener is absolutely necessary on water in the San Antonio/Austin area.

[LoneStar]

Rather than put it in your garage, I'd rather see you put it in your basement, if that is an option.

Russ

Not too many houses in South Texas have basements Russ....about 99% do not. :wink_smile:

[allan]

I've been thinking of getting a water softner, thought I had one turned out it was just the loop to tie one into.

The water softner, would that make the RODI unit more efficient?

[dipan]

I've been thinking of getting a water softner, thought I had one turned out it was just the loop to tie one into.

The water softner, would that make the RODI unit more efficient?

RO membranes last longer when there aren't calcium carbonate salts clogging them ...

[BuckeyeHydro]

Not too many houses in South Texas have basements Russ....about 99% do not. :wink_smile:

Ah-ha. In that case, the garage will do. It will be exposed to high temperatures - would be a good idea to sanitize it more than once a year.

Russ

[TexasRedneck]

I've been thinking of getting a water softner, thought I had one turned out it was just the loop to tie one into.

The water softner, would that make the RODI unit more efficient?

More efficient, not really. Membrane last longer? Absolutely. Not to mention the REST of the plumbing in the house - especially the hot water heater.

[Bill S]

There's a ton of 'em out there - check w/Sam's for one that's pretty inexpensive and fairly user-friendly. I sell 'em - but not as cheaply as Sam's does, and what they have should do the job for you. The water waste is simply the nature of the beast, until you get into larger (and more expensive - $500 to 1k) units which will allow you to recover up to 75% of the feed water. With either one, a softener is a good idea - but with the high recovery units, a softener is absolutely necessary on water in the San Antonio/Austin area.

These units are not suitable for reef water. I realize that you are in the water business, but there's a reason Buckeye Field Supply is the supplier of choice for Reef systems. We REALLY need 0-1 ppm of TDS. The cheapo units just won't get there - especially in San Antonio. I have 2 of those cheapo units in my garage (in a box) and a Buckeye that supplies my tanks.

[Paul28]

You can buy a real nice one from this site :)http://www.airwaterice.com/c=Nheko7mNJ4Knk5FmSOhni2ayU/

[TexasRedneck]

These units are not suitable for reef water. I realize that you are in the water business, but there's a reason Buckeye Field Supply is the supplier of choice for Reef systems. We REALLY need 0-1 ppm of TDS. The cheapo units just won't get there - especially in San Antonio. I have 2 of those cheapo units in my garage (in a box) and a Buckeye that supplies my tanks.

I can understand that - which means you'll use a DI cartridge to polish it down further. No RO will take it down to 1 ppm without a polishing cartridge.