Rising Nitrates

[allan]

I've been working feverishly (well not exactly since the RODI does the work) making water for a few water changes in my tank.

I noticed my 'trates were about 40? the other day and performed a 20 gal change. Not able to color coordinate my own attire I can only say that it seems now that my 'trate color has risen to 80? for some reason.

I did another 20 (most likely about 17) gallon exchange yesterday morning. This morning I checked the 'trates and they're still about 80?. I have about 25 gallons resting in a brute container (ran out of salt at about 1.012, tank is at 1.022) for another exchange. If performed I will have done a total of 65 gallons in 48 hours.

Tank 100 gallons (sans rock and sand)
Fuge 55 (four inches from the top ~ 43 gallons?)

'trites and AM appear, to my highly caliberated eyeball, about zero.

Corals seem fine, this morning I noticed two white spots on a large green plated looking coral that I've had for several months now.

Recent change to the rig was an emp filter 350 HOT that I took out both filters, replaced one and filled the other with LR rubble. I had intended on doing both but not at the same time. Now, of course, I wonder if that may be the reason why my 'trates are rising. I used the filter only as an extra source of water turn over and particulate filtration.

fixing to head down to PetSmart to pick up more salt to do another exchange...

[Kristy]

Could something have died and be decomposing and fouling your water?

Where did the live rock rubble come from? Was it dead or cured? Could it be cycling?
-Mike (& Kristy)

[dipan]

If something died, your skimmer could be going nuts producing more skimmate than usual?

[allan]

The skimmer is producing about the same it always does. About once a week, sometimes twice I empty it out. Gets to be about a third to half full. Smells terrible though.

I haven't had anything die that I watch. May have lost a snail.

Crud, forgot. About two months ago I... don't laugh, I can only hope that other newbies do this also and that I am not alone... I picked up six clams and put them into the tank. One died on the spot, the other dug itself into the substrate and later popped it's lid and died. The other four are still in the substrate. I wonder if one of them died. Or perhaps their digging is causing the 'trate rise?

Wouldn't my AM and 'trites go up though?

That coral that I mentioned earlier looks really happy, but it still has those dead spots. All together perhaps a square inch?

I got to tell you that it is so much easier to blame my test kit. :)

The LR is a mixture that I have had in my tank for awhile and some shells that I picked up from the beach, washed and baked in my driveway.

[Squiers007]

If you LR is doing what it is supposed to you wont see any rise in AM of trites because they are very quickly converted to trates. There are a couple different viewpoints on this, but I have always felft that LR rubble is just as bad as bio-balls at trapping detritus and converting it to trates. 80 is a very very high number, have you varified your test results with another test kit or taken some water to your LFS to have them test it. You may just have a bad test kit, but if it is that high then you definatley had something big die, whether it was bacteria or larger organisms something is off. The only way your are going to bring them down from 80 is to do massive water changes. I would start with a 50% wc. This will lower your trates to 40, then I would wait a day or two and do another 50% wc. From here your trates should be down to ~20. This is still way too high so you should do another 50% wc a couple days later. Once you have them to to ~10 you can do smaller wc's until it is back to 0, but finding the source is going to be important so they dont get that high again. I know this sounds like a lot of work, but if you want to get them down this is the safest way.

[allan]

Yeah, it does sound like a lot of work. I don't mind doing it though. I have the 25 gallons ready just have to swing by petsmart and pick up some more salt.

This time I may try vacuming out the baffle area where a lot of the sooty stuff settles in the fuge. I've been replacing the water into the sump/skimmer area and since I've started using the trashcan/pump combo each time I stir up a lot of crud. I'll also move my lr in the baffles back into the fuge to prevent that accumulation.

Tomorrow I will take a sample of water to AD and see if they can verify my readings.

[allan]

Another 25 gallons down. Milly checked parameters prior to the change and 'trates were at just between 80 and 40 markers. Apparently I needed her eyes to tell the different shades between red and red. Will let tank settle and check again but I think I'm done making water until I get my readings checked tomorrow.

Ok boys, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret! Share it with whom you wish...

1. Don't ever, and I mean EVER, try to create a siphon in a hurry when your head is below the water level of the tank. Don't know if any of you know what a beer bong is but --

2. Don't ever try to put six gallons of water in a five gallon container, your tank will thank you but mama will be ****ed when she sees what you've done to her throw rug thing under the table.

3. If you ever decide to do #2 make sure your wife is out of town for the weekend! <whew>

4. This is a keeper. If you're a big ole boy (steve?) don't try to nimbly dance between the dining room table, the chairs and a tank viewing bench while delicatly balancing a five gallon jug holding six gallons of water.


I'll post my readings later and thanks for the help. I've vacummed the rocks at the bottom of the baffles and will take them out once I change the filters in a couple of days.

[allan]

cool astrixes! I didn't put anything in there terribly vulger although the word I used did imply making human water of a sort, very high in Ammonia.

[BA]

deff take your water to a LFS. What is the brand of your test kit? There is a commonly sold test kit that is cheap and comes with the four ph,nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate tests but it is Notorious for having a horrible nitrate test, but tests the other three parameters quite well. i can't remember the brand name... can anyone help me out on this??? many times in the past people would make a thread here on maast saying their nitrates were out of control and do multiple water changes, then took their water to a LFS just to see that their nitrates were at 0ppm.... deff take it to a LFS!!!

[SABOB]

Agree on having LFS test water.I had an API nitrate test kit tell me I was at 80 but AD tested water sample about 10.They are known to be bad ( API Nitrate )

[allan]

I have the API brand. I'll swing by AD in the morning.

[BA]

how did the tests come out afterall?

[allan]

I am working on another thirty gallons to change out now. I wasn't able to get water down to AD today... although I did stop by.

Fixing to run the test now to check the color.

[Squiers007]

Keep us updated

[Bill S]

Hey, I'm right here in Encino Park.

Check your water - tap water here occasionally has quite large spikes in nitrates. 20 is typical. If you are making RO/DI - you could have blown a membrane. If your nitrates out of the tap are 20 or 40, it's hard to make progress.

If you need RO/DI I have about 30 gallons

If you need salt, I have about 300 lbs

If you need your water tested, I can do that too!

The clams MAY be your nitrate source. They are great at REMOVING nitrates. BUT, when they die, they get released back in!

[allan]

BStreep,

Thanks for your offer and I hope I won't have to take you up on it. Hadn't thought about the trates in the water that I'm making, but I will check the RODI now to see if something is amiss.

yeah, about the clams, I, uh, I got them at HEB. Uh.... probably not where most aquaria folks go for their livestock but I kind of thought it was cool at the time. I will check those while working on the test of the RODI.

I did a complete thirty gallons last night. This time I shut off my return pump, siphoned what I could from the bottom tank and the remainding 30 gallons was pulled from the display. This was kind of late last night.

This morning I verified that my testing kit still read in the 40 to 80 zone, depending how I held the sample up to the light or to the chart.

It's quite vexing and to tell the truth I am no longer certain that I want to go into a bigger tank. Not until they come up with a good nitrate filter that is.

[Bill S]

Go ahead and test your water. That will narrow it down - your kit is good, your water is bad, or your kit is bad. Feel free to drive over tonight. We'll be up until midnight - and we are only about 10 minutes away. 663.8079.

[allan]

Rodi looks zero, light yellow.

The trates must be getting lower though, the flower pot started to open up today. The bta is open and happy. Just looking at the tank everything seems happy.


I'm good with salt and I can whip up another thirty gallons in about half a day.

[Bill S]

Cool. Test your mixed water too, just in case.

I'm seriously wondering if you have a bad kit. Could be those clams though!

BTW, saltwaterfish.com sells them as "cleaner clams". The ones HEB has are from cold water - expecially if you don't get them in the late summer, when the water up north is warmer. They would need to be slowly aclimated.

[allan]

I thought they were on ice to slow their metabolism a bit. I did float them, but in hindsight I probably should have drip aclimate them. I see their little breathing tubes just over the level of the sand and occasionally I see a plume of debris that is jetted up from them.

Ok, just tested the remnants of water at the bottom of my barrel and they came up yellow as well. I checked the tank water again this morning and the levels appear the same, 40-60. Going to swing by AD today and get tested (I promise, me and the mrs are going to be about today looking at furniture).

On the optimistic side a few more tests and I will be required to get a new test...

[SABOB]

Don't think AD is opened on Tuesdays

[txav8r]

I'd be glad to test your water as well. I also have 15 gal. of RODI always on hand if you need more. Im at Stone Oak and Hardy Oak
215-9840

[allan]

Yeah, forgot about AD being closed today. I appreciate the offer guys.

I've changed out 95 gallons in about three days. At the very least, and I mean the very least my trates should have dropped by 50%, although a closer approximation would be 75%. My test still shows the same color so I am thinking it is indeed the test kit.

Alternatively if the test is good then water changes aren't bringing down my trate level... which wouldn't make any sense at all to me. None at all.

[kkiel02]

But if it was the the test kit wouldn't it be off when you tested the to water? Or by being bad does it mean they just give off bad readings when nitrates are present? Also I don't think it's the clams as even if they died in a 100 gallon would it even show a spike? Also do you have any nitrate removal going on like dsb or macro? I just thinned my macro out or I would offer you some of mine.

[RICKY81]

I did a complete thirty gallons last night. This time I shut off my return pump, siphoned what I could from the bottom tank and the remainding 30 gallons was pulled from the display. This was kind of late last night.
.

ok i was reading the thread tonight, and i noticed that (now anyone please correct me if im wrong), but i realized that you are siphoning ur gravel and i think that is what's causing your nitrates to go high....i don't know where in maast i read that you shouldn't disturb your sand bed cause you mess up you water parameters....

that is exactly what i would do when i had my 75gal, siphon the sandbed and nitrates would go high around .60....now i have a 210gal and i live the sandbed alone with water changes and nitrates have not been greater than .20 if at all.... just my .o2

[Squiers007]

Good call on siphoning the sand Ricky. I hadnt thought about that until you brought it up, might be having an impact. As far as the clam is concerned, depending on the one you bought several are from the gulf and are definately not "cold-water" clams and should do fine. If you can see there siphon and they are pumping then they are comfortable in your tank and are feeding. They filter-feed particles out of the water column and so long as you dose some phyto and zoo every once in a while they should be fine.

[allan]

No, I think I may have misrepresented myself. I siphon as much 'water' as I can from the 'bottom tank' meaning the fuge/sump. I don't really disturb the sand bed in either the fuge or the display, with the exception of some light vacuming. Very light and I don't go poking into areas where I can't see what I am doing.

I do not believe that disturbing the bed is the issue, unless it's something else disturbing it behind my back. I have a dragon goby that keeps 75% of my bed sparkling white. He leaves the other 25% to nature and it has a light brown covering of diatoms. I tend not to disturb that.

I'll go and get my water tested now. Hope AD isn't busy.

[allan]

Good news. I finally got off my fourth point of contact and drove down to ADs, my 'trates are around 10. Maybe a hair more but all in all I am at 10. Stands to reason that my test kit is a bit skewed to the negative.

I went ahead and picked up one of those pro kits. I'm ok as long as the wife doesn't find out. :)

Thank you all for the many offers of assistance and advice through my little mini emergency.