setting up 135 - plumbing issues (SOLVED)

[marshall.read]

i'm setting up a 135 reef. i put in a 4' calfo box which housed three 1" bulkheads. each 1" bulkhead has a durso standpipe outside the tank with a slightly less than 1/4" hole in the top of each. i have from multiple sources that a 1" pipe should gravity flow approximately 600 gph, so i assume that my setup should be able to handle at most around 1800 gph. for the return pumps i will be using two mag 9.5's, which at 5' of head should push around 750 gph, so i'm assuming i'll have around 1500 gph total.

so i set it up last night using only 1 mag 9.5 (the other is still running my 75 gallon) and to my surprise/dismay the three drains are barely able to handle the flow and the pipes are bucking around slightly which to me would indicate that i'm trapping air. i measured each line individually and i'm only getting about 160 gph from each drain, so for all three i'm pumping less than 500 gph and the pipes are barely able to handle it. i drilled a second hole into each durso for more air flow to no avail. later today i'm going to try to put in an airline tube down the durso to see if that helps.

in case its related (and i'm starting to think it is), my drain lines don't drop vertically down, rather they go at 45degree angles. the reason for this is because i got a little drill happy and put in the holes relatively close to the center of the tank and then realized that the back of the stand is solid in the middle. my face is still a little red on that one. so i ran the drains at 45 angles to the bottom of the tank and then straight down to the sump/refugium. i included a picture for reference (its very crude as i drew it in a hurry using ms paint, but i think it should do).

so any ideas on what the problem/problems is/are. i'm hoping the airline will solve my problems, and i will update this post if it does so. i'm thankful for any help or advice.


http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm422/marshall-read/135aquariumschematic.jpg

[marshall.read]

well, i tried the airline idea but wasn't too impressed. perhaps it just requires more tuning. i'm considering setting up the overflows to use a siphon on one overflow, an open channel overflow on the other, and use the last as a durso emergency drain. heres a link to the setup:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310585&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

has anyone done one of these setups? any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

[Bill S]

The problem you have is that with that 45 degree run, you have way too many places for air to become trapped. Running an airline down there might not "find" the right place.

In addition: 1" drains will NOT drain enough for your returns. I have 2" drains on mine, and it's set up such that 1 of the 2 drains can be plugged, and the other can handle the 1750gph return. However, 2" handles 4X the volume of 1".

First thing I'd try is to see if you can get at least a foot of so of straight down run before turning 45 degrees. You might also TRY stepping up your drain size to 1.5" or 2" - at least then your only restriction is the 1" hole in the tank.

One last comment: you should NEVER plumb relying on all of your drains to be working. One WILL become plugged, and as well, over time your drains will get calcium growths slowing them down.

[Texreefer]

if there is ANY way to increase two of those drain lines I would do that.
I'm running about 1100gph but my drains can handle over 2000gph
1" drains can get clogged so easy.. I had to tear my plumbing apart twice when I had my plywood tank because the drains got clogged
go to 1.5" on the two outside drains and leave the third for emergency
I have horizontal runs in my plumbing and it does not reduce the efficiency of the drains

[Bill S]

Mike,

My comment on the more-horizontal runs was that there's such a long length of pipe to "burp". In a vertical drop, the burp bubble is right below the incoming drain to the durso.

Like I said, I'd seriously consider either upgrading your 1" holes to 1.5" holes, or at least upsizing your other plumbing. Upsizing won't help your total volume much, BUT it will eliminate 1" bends (which really restrict flow) and it will leave your 1" holes in the tank as the ONLY restrictions - and they are a lot easier to keep clean.

[marshall.read]

thanks for all the input, what i went ahead and did was the siphon setup that i linked above. i must say, i'm very impressed. i tuned the siphon so that my refugium is just the right amount of flow, and it is whisper silent. i was amazed at how quiet it was. i tested the system by blocking off the main siphon drain, and the drain into the refugium picked up the slack and handled the flow without incident. i closed that drain, and the emergency durso kicked in and handled all the flow without incident. so unless all three drains are obstructed at once its failsafe. and even if all three were blocked at once it wouldn't flood, it would just run the pump dry (i would consider that the lesser of two evils). and the system starts up from being stopped without any trouble, takes it a second to purge the air, but then it works fine without any adjustments. theres also almost no bubbles in the sump or refugium and, again, unbelievably silent. the loudest thing about it now is the mag pump.

[Bill S]

Marshall,

I should have looked at your link to start with - my apologies.

If Bean dreamed this thing up AND he put it into practice, I'll assure you: IT WORKS.

That is a very elegant solution - hope it works for you. Wish I had thought of it when I set mine up. I did notice that Bean used 1.5" everywhere though...

One concern: If you use an auto topoff for your sump, you MAY run into a flooding problem (your "pump runs dry" scenario). Just remember that for future consideration. In other works, if you have an auto topoff, your pump won't run dry...

[marshall.read]

good thinking Bill, i don't currently employ an auto-topoff but i definately see what you're saying and i will keep it in mind if i ever decide to set up the auto-topoff. BeanAnimal noted in the post that the concept should work with any size pipe and he did specificy he tried it with a all 1" plumbing. besides, i'm only going to run one mag 9.5 instead of two, and use a squid to fork to both return baffles. that being said, three 1" drains shouldn't have alot of trouble handling 750gph. my main concern at this point will be to make sure i have the drains properly screened to keep debris/critters out of the pipes.

[subsailor]

:wink_smile:Sweet bet your glad I showed you that post now.

[marshall.read]

gotta give you props on that one drew. you should come over sometime and check it out.