New Member

[allan]

Hello folks,

New, been lurking for awhile and new to the saltwater aquaria as well.

My daughter and I have started up a tank, with all intentions of keeping it low budget. We were given a 55 gallon tank, and while we were getting the sand and salt, were given a 100 gallon tank. We turned the 55 gallon tank into a minor filtration device with about 30 to 35 gallons reserved for a refugium. We started with a hand full of culepra and 20 lbs of carib live sand.

The display tank was started with 160 lbs of live sand (carib) and about 40 lbs of live rock from the lfs here in SA. The tank never went through any spikes after I finally ponied up for the test kit which was a little over a week and a half (two weeks probably) although we did have the gold/brown algae take over the tank. We had placed four green chromis into the tank to speed the cycling which never really happened.

We are now entering week six and have five chromis, two clowns, three hermits, yellow fox faced rabbit fish, a tuxedo urchin that insists on wearing everything not bolted down, and a condolactus anenome that has taken residence in my Texas Holey rock and only reaches out of its cave to feed.

Algae is gone in my display tank and the algae in my fuge has turned green... and there are literally millions of what I can only assume are copepods living in the fuge. I believe that during the course of night they continue to be pushed into the display tank. The chromis, and even the clowns, seem to relish them in the morning although I do not think they are very filling.

I have filters that I pushed into the baffles below, along with a box of bio balls. I also have an emperor 350 filter with the biowheels removed for large particulate matter. I have very little desire to remove the copapods as they are alive and don't seem to be doing much harm.

My question is this... with my numbers still (four weeks running) still 0 across the board to include nitrates, should I invest in a protein skimmer? My bio load isn't significant yet, and I haven't started to introduce coral as my light set up isn't where it needs to be to do this. Working on the hood now. Plan on four whites and two blues, 36" T5.

What do you all think? Should I invest in that? I plan on going by the lfs this afternoon to pick up more rock (they've had it in the tank going on three weeks, cured I would assume) to add to my 'scape.

[allan]

I also have a Dragon Goby...

[Bill S]

So far, so good.

A couple of things:

Live rock from a store - one MUST assume that it is not cured. Sometimes, the person at the LFS knows a bit less than they should. Remember, if they sell you something that nukes your tank, they won't pay for it. You will.

You need more rock, but you need to add it slowly. And test for the days following the addition. BTW, if the rock doesn't smell like seawater -it's not cured. If it smells AT ALL like rotten eggs, it's definately not cured.

In the event that something bad happens, a protein skimmer is critical. It's better to have one now, than to be desperate for one later.

In this hobby, bad, bad things come to those that rush the process. For 6 weeks, you are way overstocked. I know this is hard to do, but don't add anything livestock for a while.

[hobogato]

good points bill.

allan, glad you are getting more rock - that was the first thing i would have told you to do. since your tank is running smoothly right now, i would suggest adding small amounts of rock at a time rather thank getting all of the rest of the rock you need at once. i would suggest at least 40 pounds more. take your time and pick pieces that are interesting shapes that you can use to create natural aquascaping.

t5 bulbs - i have a 36" white bulb that i was selling because i am not using it any more. you can have it for free. it has one week of use. if you want to come by and pick it up, i am not far from where you are and will be available in the evening all week.

skimmer..... hard for me to give advice on this since i currently do not run a skimmer. i think ultimately it depends on where you want to go with your tank. my tank (very establishe with a very large refugium) is headed in the direction of mixed reef with lots of non photosynthetic corals that do not do well in tanks with skimmers. if you are not planning on that direction, then you will likely need a skimmer - soon (as bill pointed out).

[rocketeer]

You'll have to get a skimmer eventually. At least that's the general concensus. I'd go ahead and get it now. You are adding some protein. Don't wait until you have a problem because then it may be difficult to get rid of it. I don't think it'll hurt your pod population much. A couple good sized rocks in your sump (porous ones) will give your pods something to hang around in, if you have room.

If your bioballs are under water they can serve that purpose. Alot of people don't like bioballs. They say they cause nitrates. I don't know if they are meaning above or below water. Make sure they don't become a detritus trap. If you sand bed is less than about 3.5 inches, monitor for nitrates.

By the way, congratulations on your new tank. It sounds like it's going great. Post pics when you get a chance.

Welcome to MAAST!

Jack

[rocketeer]

You'll have to get a skimmer eventually. At least that's the general concensus. I'd go ahead and get it now. You are adding some protein. Don't wait until you have a problem because then it may be difficult to get rid of it. I don't think it'll hurt your pod population much. A couple good sized rocks in your sump (porous ones) will give your pods something to hang around in, if you have room.

If your bioballs are under water they can serve that purpose. Alot of people don't like bioballs. They say they cause nitrates. I don't know if they are meaning above or below water. Make sure they don't become a detritus trap. If you sand bed is less than about 3.5 inches, monitor for nitrates.

By the way, congratulations on your new tank. It sounds like it's going great. Post pics when you get a chance.

Welcome to MAAST!

Jack

[allan]

Thank you guys,

I kind of thought I might have went over the limit when I added the clowns and condactal... then I added the rabbit fish.

Ok, slowing down is not a problem and I will continue to monitor my levels. Today I'll be picking up about five to ten pounds of live rock. I don't have any in the fuge, I'll make sure I get that today.

My financial advisor is giving me a few bills from our incom tax and I will use that for the protien skimmer.

Allan

[Mr Cob]

You'll have to get a skimmer eventually. At least that's the general concensus. I'd go ahead and get it now. You are adding some protein. Don't wait until you have a problem because then it may be difficult to get rid of it. I don't think it'll hurt your pod population much. A couple good sized rocks in your sump (porous ones) will give your pods something to hang around in, if you have room.

If your bioballs are under water they can serve that purpose. Alot of people don't like bioballs. They say they cause nitrates. I don't know if they are meaning above or below water. Make sure they don't become a detritus trap. If you sand bed is less than about 3.5 inches, monitor for nitrates.

By the way, congratulations on your new tank. It sounds like it's going great. Post pics when you get a chance.

Welcome to MAAST!

Jack

We get the point Jack! LOL. Jk. (Double post)

Allan, welcome to MAAST! This site has saved me a ton of money and time. It's nice to come to one place to ask a question. I normally google the crud out of everything and then once I've confused my self to depression I ask it here and get sound advice. You'll find that there are many ways to get to the same end result but getting there is always the problem, this hobby is loaded with surprises around every corner. Probably what keeps people interested for so long.

"Slow and steady" is priceless in reef keeping. Remember, every time you add something new to your tank the natural filtration has to adjust to support the added bio-load. Even established tanks need to add at a steady pace.

I would recommend testing your water parameters regularly until you get a good feel of what your tank does from lights on to off, from water change to water change...etc... Also, Chaeto is a great macro for your fuge...pods love living in it. Keep predators (fish) out of the fuge too or your pod population will be depleted quickly.

You can never read/research enough. Good luck and welcome!

[allan]

Not familiar with Chaeto, but I will google it.

As far as my numbers, my Nitrate had went up between 0 and .25, but each time I've checked it with the exception of that one time my numbers have been 0, 0, and 0. PH is right at 8.2. I took a water sample to the LFS in North SA last weekend because my results were not what I expected and they gave me the same readings. I added the clowns and anenome and waited about two days and my numbers are still 0 across the board. I calculate about 125 gallons running through my system after allowing for the rock and sand.

I do have about 3.5" of sand in my display tank, not all over mind you, but predominantly. I have tried to lower my rocks into the sand to prevent settling.

My fuge only has 20lbs of sand, about an inch and a half...

[Mr Cob]

Chaeto is a more stable macro versus grape caulerpa. A lot of people won't go near grape caulerpa because it can grow uncontrolable. If my wife wasn't due in the next few days I'd invite you over to pick some up...someone is always offering it for free around here. Keep your eyes pealed on the for sale/trade forum.

[hobogato]

when you come by to pick up that bulb, i will give you some cheatomorpha for your fuge as well.

[Mr Cob]

About Chaeto:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaetomorpha

[allan]

Thank you all for your rapid responses and advice.

Ace, after I drop off my wifey at the Air Port I'll ring you when I leave AD.

I have attached, or attempted to attach, three photos that my wifey sent me at work. One is a stand back shot at my display tank, the refugium is hidden below in the stand. Have a question there. I have been running the lights in there 24/7 to stimulate growth and prevent the reproduction of the culupra. Should I remove it once the Chaepra takes off? I purchased a small handful from AD and it has spread out to a softball size.

The second photo is rather immaterial, it shows the condalactus waving about it's tentacles in search of a meal. It recently did battle with one of my more couragous peppermint shrimp who sought to take its food. Not sure who won, both are doing fine. I find that these shrimps are similar to a couple of blue lobsters I had last year in my freshie tank. Opportunistic to say the least. But they love those Aptasias. It took one night for them to kill and devour the two large ones I had in the tank. After I finish adding rock and am assured that I have no glass anenomes I will try to find an alternate home for them. Or at least one of them.

The third picture (I hope that I have them in order) is a rock that has a few anenomes that I have been unable to identify. Started with five, got about 13 now at varying sizes. Really cool to watch them eat the brine shrimp. The other day the largest (prominently displayed at the front of the rock) expelled some large white looking thing. I thought it might have reproduced, and unfortunately the white slug like thing was swept up into my filter.

Allan

259625972598

[allan]

Sorry. 1, 2, and 3 are referred to in the text as 3, 1, and 2 respectively.

[Mr Cob]

The "white slug" as you referred to it is most likely the animal's waste. It comes out the same end it enters. Wish you had better pics of the anemones to make sure they aren't Aiptasia (not good).

Do they look like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiptasia

[allan]

I am assuming that it isn't aptasia as my shrimp devoured my only two aptasia that I had. They have been over this rock but have left these things alone. I will try to describe these while my wifey tries another photo closer to the glass.

When they open in the morning and throughout the day the inside is rather green. Vibrant almost in the larger speciments. The largest even shows some striations within the green portion. Probably due to size as the smaller ones almost seem to be lacking pigment until they age/grow.

Stalk like in appearance, their trunk is about a quarter inch cylinder shaped. The top open section is circular and ringed with what I thought were just bumps but in the larger models seem to be very, and I mean very, small tentacles. Nubs if you will. Very small, however when food is placed within its maw they all come in to hold and suck in the food. They react rather quickly to outside disturbances by folding in the outer ring/lip unto itself so that they resemble a quarter inch finger, white to purple in color. When looking in from above once the light is turned on and they are open they appear to be green spots as their inner section is rather green.

Ok, I am rambling. I haven't been able to have anyone identify them, and I really don't think they are aptasias as I have had these and there are a few differences between the two. My aptasias had long arms/tentacles, and were clear in pigmentation. I also didn't notice a reaction between lights off and on with them as I do with these.

[hobogato]

maybe mejano anemone?

[allan]

I am placing the true size picture here so you can get a better look at it. The other picture is one that I found but mine doesn't look like that culprit although it does to some lesser degree look like those others in which the Majano is.

I've circled mine...

2599

2600

[Mr Cob]

As Ace suggested...looks like a Majano to me.

http://www.uniprot.org/taxonomy/105399

and

http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/inverts/softcorals/anemones/Amanjano.htm

[allan]

I know I am starting to look like I am in denial, but I just don't see it. I imagine that these guys come in all shapes sizes and colors, but they don't really look like my guys.

The biggest difference is that those pictures of the Majanos all show tentacles of one shape or another. The only things my guys have is around the disk are tiny bumps/barbs.

Of course I am still learning. If they are majanos, can I place the rock apart from the rest to prevent them from spreading or do they do some kind of spore thing? Aaand if they do would keeping them in the fuge mean that they will make it topside? Since these seem diurnal in nature and I run my fuge 24/7 would this cause them to wither and die?

[hobogato]

these are palys.


http://maast.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2600&d=1234465822

http://maast.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2600&d=1234465822

[Mr Cob]

I agree with Ace on that pic, those are definitely palys. Is that what were freeeekin talkin about?

man.

Sorry Allan...that should have been an easy ID. Palythoas are like zoanthids but typically larger and in most cases grow faster and are more aggressive. Keep them, they are cool and will add life to your live rock.

[allan]

HOT DOG!!! I am keeping them.

How about care? I try to feed the larger ones at least once every other day and I have them near the surface to maximize the light.

[Jeff]

they will do good on their own.