New Mandarin Dragonet

[uriah]

I just got a new Dragonet and just wanted to get some feedback on feeding. I know these fish like live pods, but ive read they can also eat live or frozen brine shrimp and frozen bloodworms. Any feedback on what works best?

[Texreefer]

They can but not likely. make sure you have a well established tank. or find a source of live pods to keep it alive

[Rychek]

I've got two mandarins currently and they pretty much ignore anything but live pods. One of them will eat frozen brine every now and then, but not nearly enough to live off of. Make sure you've got a good establish population with plenty of places to hide where the mandarin can't get to.

What size tank are you keeping the mandarin in?

[uriah]

55g w approx 55p live rock, 15g fuge. I just bought about 500 or so live copapods and when i set up the fuge i added some pods w the macro algea. The mandarin is feeding on the rock and hopefully he will be able to survive. I didnt realize the feeding requirements before i bought the fish. How long does it take for the pods to develop to a point that the mandarin can feed on them? Will i need to keep adding pods or will they reproduce in my fuge and tank enough to sustain the fish?

[Rychek]

It largely depends on the layout of your rockwork. The pods will reproduce, provided they can survive long enough. If you can make a few "pod piles" out of rock rubble it'll help the survival rate and long term population levels your mandarin will require.

[uriah]

How do i make a pod pile? What layout is optimal? Do pods survive better in light or dark?

[Rychek]

Any pile of rocks will work for a pod pile. As long as the mandarin can't get to all parts of the rock pile (meaning the center is protected) you should be fine. Copepods prefer the dark.

[uriah]

my fuge has 24-7 lighting... will they still reproduce? If i cant get these pods going then i might have a madarid for trade:at_wits_end:

[Rychek]

Yes, the pods should still reproduce. They live inside the rock and macro algae, so the light shouldn't be a problem. It would help if you didn't have light on 24/7 though. Don't get all stressed about the pods at this point. It takes time for the pods to really get going, but you just added some and, unless your system is brand new, you should already have some pods established. Just keep an eye on the mandarin and keep an eye out for copepods on the glass, rocks and sand. One way to find the pods is to wait until after your lights have been off for a few hours at night then look in with a flashlight with a red filter on it. You might be surprised at how many pods you actually have in your tank.

How long has your tank been running?

[uriah]

its been running for about 60 days, but everything was already established (rock, sand and algea/ pods into fuge) so the cycling period was significantly less than a brand new tank. All of my water paramiters are on point, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate/trite, ph 8.2, salinity .022-24. If i set up a pod pile, wouldnt the food in the pile cause the ammonia to increase? I dont have any shrimp so i used an algea wafer. Will that work?

[Rychek]

You shouldn't need to add anything to the pod pile. Just pile up some rock rubble in a back corner or someplace similar. You should be alright at this point. Like I said earlier, just keep an eye on things and make sure your mandarin isn't shriveling/pinching right beside his pectoral ("wing") fins.

[wesheltonj]

I have one. It eats what I put into the tank, brine, mysis, blood worms.

[uriah]

From what ive heard, some mandarin will eat brine or bloodworm, but most are really picky eaters.

[uriah]

You shouldn't need to add anything to the pod pile. Just pile up some rock rubble in a back corner or someplace similar. You should be alright at this point. Like I said earlier, just keep an eye on things and make sure your mandarin isn't shriveling/pinching right beside his pectoral ("wing") fins.

he does look a little skinny, but ill just see how things go. Worst case, ill try to feed him some brine and then just trade him if i cant sustain him.

[Rychek]

Sounds like a plan. Keep us posted. :)

[uriah]

I just wish that i would have done my research before i bought the fish. It was between the mandarin and a red banded goby. The goby would have been alot easier to take care of. I may be over reacting, but i just hate to have livestock die.

[fishforlife]

I would like to add a question about this cool looking fish...

My tank is about 6 months old and I bought my live rock and sand from well established tanks. I have not seen any pods, and to be honest I do not know what to look for...

How do you know your tank is ready for a mandarin? BTW, this will be the last fish I add....

[Rychek]

We'll need some more info about your tank before we can answer your question.
How big is your tank?
How much rock do you have?
Do you have a refugium? If so, what is in it?
Look at the glass along the sandline of your tank. Do you see anything moving around? If not, a few hours after lights out, look into your tank with a red filtered flashlight and look for pods (they look a lot like fleas, pill bugs, rolly pollies, etc.). If you have them, you can start thinking about getting a mandarin. If you don't have them, don't waste your money. Mandarins aren't that hard to take care of IF your tank is properly aged.

[fishforlife]

I have A 125 gallon tank with 120 or so pounds of live rock. I have a sump with nothing in it yet...I plan on adding sand and rubble to the botton soon. I have seen these white things on the glass at night but assumed they were star fish....

I was told that you could buy some pods and place them in your sump with sand and rubble...and that when the pods multiply the return will suck them up and make it in your tank. Anyway, I want one of these fish but only when they can be healthy and happy...thoughts?

[uriah]

Mine seems to be doing okay... Hes been in the tank 24 hours and hes been moving around the rock, pecking here and there. I can see alot of pods in the fuge and in the display. I started the pod pile in the fuge, should that be fine? If he starts to perish, how would he act? I assume he would get skinnier and then just hide and die? I can take some pics, but i dont know how to post them.....

[Kristy]

How do you know your tank is ready for a mandarin?
Glad to hear (read) you asking this question. I have had the very awful experience of watching a fish starve to death because of a purchasing error on my part and there is nothing that feels worse. Read this very informative article to give your beautiful mandarin the best possible chance of success...

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_care.html

[uriah]

how long did it take your mandarin to starve?

[Kristy]

The fish I starved was not a mandarin, but I can tell you from others' experience that they starve to death very slowly over a period of several weeks to months. For a while there are enough pods for it to eat, but then they tip the balance of the pod population and the reef cannot support enough pods to sustain the mandarin. That's why people recommend that you wait until your tank has been established for 6 months to a year.

The fuge definitely helps, provided that the pods can make it back into the display tank (depending on pumps and plumbing layout). The pod piles help, but I would be cautious and would suggest re-seeding your pod population periodically for up to a full year. I once asked a very knowledgeable fish guy, "How do you know when your mandarin is getting enough to eat?" and he answered, "When you see it eating mysis or brine!"

Here is another very entertaining Melev read about feeding a mandarin, although it may not really apply to your situation...
http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

Good luck and keep us posted!

[fishforlife]

I see PODS I see PODS!!!!!! I turned off the lights....waited...got a flashlight (a cool way to look at your tank)...and saw these little tee-tiny lice looking things crawling on thesubstraight...maybe 15 of them. I did not look thoroughly, but IS it safe to assume where there are few there are many? I still plan on waitng to buy the mandarins(I would like 2) for about 3 months... thoughts?

[Rychek]

I have A 125 gallon tank with 120 or so pounds of live rock. I have a sump with nothing in it yet...I plan on adding sand and rubble to the botton soon. I have seen these white things on the glass at night but assumed they were star fish....

I was told that you could buy some pods and place them in your sump with sand and rubble...and that when the pods multiply the return will suck them up and make it in your tank. Anyway, I want one of these fish but only when they can be healthy and happy...thoughts?

Sounds like you're almost set. Get some rock, sand and macro algae in your sump and you'll be set. Take a close look at the white things. If they mover from place to place, then you're probably good to go. If you can tell, copepods look kind of like a Y with a dot in the middle.


Mine seems to be doing okay... Hes been in the tank 24 hours and hes been moving around the rock, pecking here and there. I can see alot of pods in the fuge and in the display. I started the pod pile in the fuge, should that be fine? If he starts to perish, how would he act? I assume he would get skinnier and then just hide and die? I can take some pics, but i dont know how to post them.....

You don't need a pod pile in the fuge. Your refugium is already a safe haven for pods. The pod piles will be most beneficial in the display tank. The purpose of the pile is to give the pods in the display a safe place to multiply.

If your fish is starving, you see the stomach area (behind the pectoral fins and below the lateral line) looking pinched and sunken (when looking from the back/side).

It takes weeks for a mandarin to starve to death so if it's sunken now, don't panic. Just as it takes weeks for starvation, it takes weeks to recover from a pinched/sunken stomach (provided the fish isn't too far gone to begin with). As with everything else in this hobby, patience is a virtue. :wink_smile:

[fishforlife]

what the heck is micro algea, where do i get it...what is if for? Geeze what a newbie question...

[Rychek]

I see PODS I see PODS!!!!!! I turned off the lights....waited...got a flashlight (a cool way to llok at your tank)...and saw these little tee-tiny lice looking things craqwling on teh substraight...maybe 15 of them. I did not look thoroughly, but IS it safe to assume where there are few there are many? I still plan on waitng to buy the mandarins(I would like 2) for about 3 months... thoughts?

Excellent! You are off to a good start. Like Kristy (or was it Mike...) said, give it time. Also, periodically supplement your pod population with live pods. I've got a very fat green mandarin and a fattening target mandarin in my 90 gal tank, but I'm still planning on getting some live pods to supplement with (my mandarins are my favorite fish and I'm paranoid like that :wink_smile:


what the heck is micro algea, where do i get it...what is if for? Geeze what a newbie question...

Micro algae is the green stuff you scrape off of you glass and it's not what you really want. :wink_smile: What you want is Macro Algae, specifically Cheatomorpha (or cheato for short). Most marine fish stores carry it, or you can get some from other reefers (just post in the want to buy trade forum). I'd offer you some, but I just cleaned out my fuge a couple weeks ago. :(

[Kristy]

Love the newbie questions. Great way to learn!

Macro algae is an algae you grow in the refugium that uses up all the algae-inducing nutrients in order to keep them from turning into nuisance algaes in your tank. Almost all of us have some growing in our refugiums. If you need any to get started, people are giving it away free all the time and we could give some out right now if anyone needs some. Also seen under the species specific names like "chaeto" or "calurpa" or "grape calurpa" for example.

(Yeah, it's Kristy this time... we really need to get a separate user name for Mike one of these days, but we still actually only have ONE personal email address!)

[uriah]

I saw a couple articles on culturing copepods in a jar on the window seal. Does anyone know how to culture pods so that i can keep my tank stocked and avoid spending a fortune on pods at the pet store?

[Rychek]

I tried to culture pods in a jar with some cheato, an air pump and phytoplankton, but I made the mistake of topping off the jar with tank water instead of RO water and eventually killed my pods due to hyper salinity.

[uriah]

Someone in this thread wrote that copepods like dark... what would be the best enviroment to culture them in? As long as i use an air pump and keep the salinity in check, a regular size jar should be fine? What is the difference between culturing in a jar and in a fuge?

[Rychek]

The fuge requires almost no extra maintenance. Add some pods (or macro with pods) and they pretty much take care of themselves. Culturing in jars requires water maintenance and phytoplankton.

[uriah]

I have a fuge going with a mix of algea and other pods.... If i just use a (new) turkey baster to suck out the pods and put them into the display periodically, would that work?

[fishforlife]

does the macro alfea require a lightin your refugium? Do you need sand and live rock inthere as well?

[uriah]

I had 24-7 lighting going in my fuge, but i guess thats not good for the pods??? I switched my lighting to 12h on and 12 off. Well see how it works....

[uriah]

If worst comes to worst, can i just house the mandarin in my fuge until he plumps up and while the pod levels establish in my tank?

[Rychek]

Ideally you would have rock, sand and macro in a fuge with "reverse cycle" (fuge light is on when the display lights are off) lighting. Macro does require light, but just about any light bulb will do. I run a regular flourecent light from a 20 gal tank I purchased at Petsmart on my fuge.

Using a turkey baster will not suffice for a dragonet. They are constant eaters and need an established pod population in the display as well as a fuge. That is why the general recommendation is 6-12 months of running a tank before adding a dragonet. Preparing a tank for a dragonet is an exercise in patience. It takes time to get things going. Even if you spend a load on live pods to seed everything really well, it still takes a few weeks for the population to settle in stabilize.

[Rychek]

If worst comes to worst, can i just house the mandarin in my fuge until he plumps up and while the pod levels establish in my tank?

Yes. That would be better than starving it in the display, if worse comes to worse. :)

[uriah]

Its alot of work taking care of this type of fish, but I know that the feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction will be worth it when the tank is able to maintain the fish by itself. Im not gona give up.... Thanks to everyone who gave advise on this thread:bighug:

[OrionN]

If you provide the Mandarin with food, it almost require no care. very hardy fish, hardly ever get sick if having enough food. They are very slow eater and feed all day long. When add food in the tank, even if he eat them, most of the food are eaten before Mandarin get to it.
fishforlife, Your tank should be big enough for at least one Mandarin. Get a male one, and later, if you want and when it is more establish, you may want to try a pair. Male Mandarins have a spike (fist ray of the dorsal fin) that is at least twice as long as the second ray. Often, when first import, this spike may break during shipping, thus these guys look just like a females.
BTW, if you want to keep Mandarin, you should avoid their main competitors in the tank mainly wrasses, especially 6 lines and 4-line wrasses.

[ErikH]

Also avoid scooter blennies, they eat the same thing. 55g is barely big enough for 1. If it looks like its starving, I have plenty, just let me know.

[uriah]

I moved him to my fuge so that he can feast on the copepods down there. (Theres hundreds all over the glass and I know he will have plenty of food, but he started to turn white??? All my paramiters are on point, can anyone tell me why this may happen?

[OrionN]

Do you have a lighted refugium? Mandarin will look like a dead fish at night. I think that is what you are describing. When the light is on, he will kook normal. You need to keep your refugium light on at least 12hr per day.

[russellwnentwich]

My dragonet eats frozen mysis shrimp, you might want to try that.

[uriah]

ill keep an eye on him, but yes my fuge is lighted with a power compact at least 12 hours a day.

[Rychek]

Mandarins turn white/lose color when they sleep. It's nothing to worry about, though the first few it can be startling.

[coraline79]

my pink dot dragnet lays on the bottom at night you can just pick it up if you want. If you want to feed something other than live, I have had 100% success with Arctipods(2 dragnets, both ate them).

[fishforlife]

Tell me if this sound right...

I will (eventually) have about 10 lbs of sand, some live rock rubble, and macro algea in my sump, all lit by florescent light for about 10 hours a day. I will by one bunch of pods and add them to my tank and sump... then wait a month or two.

By this time my tank will be 8 month old.... then do you think I could get a dragonet?

[Rychek]

That sounds like a very workable plan. You might also consider buying a bottle of phytoplankton to feed your pods with after you add them. The phyto will be a good source of food and help get the pod population booming.

[alton]

I have kept a Mandarin in a 29 where he got fat, the substrate was sand in front and rubble in the back. The fish had no competition, so when I fed either fresh water or saltwater Mysis it would sit there until he felt like picking it up. If you have one with multilple fish he will have to compete and since they are slow react, lose out. Becareful on choosing tank mates. When you decide to purchase one, buy a fat one. Don't think you can buy a skinny one and fatten him/her up. For those who think these should stay in the ocean, they are starving there to, it seems there natural preditors are few and far between. So they continue to over take reefs. Jordan sells a macro algae package that contains both algae, pods, and food for pods to help start your fuge. One last thing the best type of fuge is a hang on the back, where the water is pumped into the fuge and the pods can flow into the aquarium in lieu of running through a pump.

[corkyGramma]

Hey man very interesting conversation. I've known many of people to have failed with this fish, and others just got lucky with one that was already eating brine at the store. Unfortunately the person selling it to you might not know or care to warn you of its proper care. But I can tell you really want to make it work out. *** I just wanted to clarify that just because your tank is cycled doesn't mean its established. An established tank is a synergy of (organisms and bacteria) your water, sand, and rock that hits its optimum level at around roughly six months.

[uriah]

hes doing good in the fuge. Ill probably leave him down there until the pod population in the display is at a level that can sustain the fish. Ill also need to add more copepods to keep the levels in the fuge high.