Baby Brine Shrimp

[ErikH]

I traded Ace some healthy sized frags to get my hands on some "HoboHatcheries":) for propagating Brine Shrimp. I mounted them to the back of my fish watching seat, put a 2.5 gallon aquarium under the nozzles, added water, air, and eggs. This was at 5 last night. I woke up at 8 and checked my tubes to find millions of them had hatched. I turned off the light, and covered the tubes for 20 minutes so the brine would settle in the bottom of the container while the egg shells floated to the top. Then I used a filter sock and held it under the nozzle while I turned it. TONS AND TONS OF BBS! I just fed both tanks, and still have a full tube! I am going to try and find some SELCO or Super SELCO today locally, so if anyone has seen any please let me know! I will be doing this daily for my horses, so if anyone has a seahorse food emergency, I can help!

[Gseclipse02]

that's sweet .... we wanted to do sea horses but it sounded like a pain due to the feeding habits

[Mr Cob]

Very cool. Drop us a pic when you get a chance.

[Richard]

I am going to try and find some SELCO or Super SELCO

You should get some Algamac (http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/detail.cgi?id=203101) instead of Selco. It's better.

[ErikH]

OK, so here is my routine thus far. I am planning on doing a write up on all of this once I get my measurements all down.

I am using the hatcheries that I got from Ace. I am assuming they hold about 3/4 of a gallon.

I am using a small normal sized socket light to keep the tubes warm as well as light them.

I am putting 10ml (API test tube) of brine shrimp eggs into container #1 and stir gently so they are no longer floating.

Then I turn the light on and then turn the air on. From what I have read, aeration is the most asked question to the authors of the articles. With the tube backlit, I gently ease the air on until it is barely bubbling. Once the eggs are all suspended, I ease the air up enough to where it churns enough of the water to not kill them. You should be able to see them and not just colored water.

I figure that 10ml is around 1 million BBS. That's what it looks like at least! I will sit down at some point and give a round-about figure for amounts of bbs/ml at each 24 hour interval.

At 8 AM I woke up (13 hours later) and there were TONS of baby brine shrimp.

At 12, I filled the other container with sw from my tank.

I then turned off the lights and aeration to tube #1 and turned the air on for tube #2 to keep from killing the pumps diaphragm. I used a shirt (go figure) to completely cover tube #1. This causes the live shrimp to settle and the empty egg sacks to float. After 20 minutes, I removed the shirt to find three distinct zones; eggs, clear water; and bbs. The clear water takes up the majority of the water column.

Then I used a 2.5g tank and placed it under the nozzles of the tubes. I used a activated carbon bag, not sure of the micron size to harvest the BBS from the first container. The egg shells float, so I just turn the valve off once I get to them.

Next I inverted the sock into tube #2 and gently shook the BBS into some new water. I took the 2.5g tank and dumped that water into my tank and let my tank absorb the excess nutrients, and leaving me with less work. The small remainder of water and eggs in the tube get flushed, rinsed, refilled, and restocked with 10ml BBS eggs.

For feeding I ran to HEB and picked up some baby food. YES, baby food...

Specifically I got the 49 cent containers of sweet potatos and peas. I mixed this into a drink container with a spill proof top with a glass of tap water. This mix should last a week.

I feed them until I cannot see the definition in the backlit lightbulb, which happens to be a clear bulb, so the filament is a good visual indicator for the water clarity.

They should always have food, so I am making sure to keep them stocked. More tomorrow....

[ErikH]

You should get some Algamac (http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/detail.cgi?id=203101) instead of Selco. It's better.

Thank you for that! I bought some MaxAmino to try out, it's a BrightwellAquatics product. I am not even sure if that idea will even work, but I just bought it as an interim thing. I will try Algamac, thanks for the info!

[Richard]

The egg shells float

One of the lessons I learned the hard way raising fry is that hydroids really can tag along with brine shrimp eggs. So I only use decapsulated eggs now.

Decapsulating them yourself isn't difficult but it's just one more thing to do, so I just order hatchable decapped brine shrimp eggs from Dan at SeahorseSource.

Here's an article on decapping the eggs if you want to give it a try.
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/artemiaGuide.shtml

[leliataylor]

Algamac has a much longer shelf life than Selco, is comparable in terms of HUFA's and provides a broader nutritional plain than Selco. I also use Vitachem, Zoe, Naturose, nanno, etc.

Remember you don't need to enrich BBS until they are 24 hours old. They do not develop a mouth to feed with until then. During their first 24 hours they feed off of their yolk sac.

What species of seahorse are you working with? Are you hatching the brine shrimp for adults or fry? I am guessing you are keeping zots.

Richard is absolutely correct that undecapped brine shrimp eggs present problems associated with hydroids. Decapping them is not difficult it just takes some practice so you don't over or under cook them. If they are left in the bleach too long they will not hatch, so it is best to begin the rinsing and dechlorination process before all the eggs turn orange. They can then be stored in the frig.

[ErikH]

These seahorses are not fry, but I forget their name. They are black, with gold specks on them. Since I DO NOT want to raise the fry, will hydroids be an issue? I may or may not do the bleach thing, depending on how hard growing them out proves to be.
I am buying two of those 30g tanks from BB, sso until I can do what I want with those, they may be put to use. I also have a 10g acrylic that could come into play. It is looking like the BBS are going to get way too crowded in these tubes, but I don't even really know what I am doing yet.
I believe the ones from yesterday have molted as I can see tiny little opaque things floating around along with the squigglers.
More later, I have to change their water....

[hobogato]

I am using the hatcheries that I got from Ace. I am assuming they hold about 3/4 of a gallon.


if you fill them to the top of the mounting bracket, it is exactly 2 liters

[ErikH]

if you fill them to the top of the mounting bracket, it is exactly 2 liters

Awesome, thank god you made them! Who else would have had the insight? :)

Ok, so day two. Tube #1 is going strong. I think yesterday I added too much food, so the water was clouded. I just put them into new water and they are looking great. I only added 1 ml of food for now, as it clouds the water ever so slightly. I will add more food in an hour or so. I am still gawking at the life in those tubes, I feel like a little kid again. :wink_smile:

Tube#2 has it's air off, thaddaway I can see if there is anything alive. If so, I am going to just keep them seperate as not to overload Tube #1.

[ErikH]

oh yeah, ty for the support. In reading, I only realize how many more questions come up, so if anyone has any questions, fire away.

[millerdog]

I’d love to know just how long one batch of eggs will last before having to be replenished and just how many one dousing of eggs where? Did you use the little red bags at we can find at just about any fish hobby store or some others? If this is info that is still to come in your write up just let me know and I’ll sit tight.

[ErikH]

I’d love to know just how long one batch of eggs will last before having to be replenished and just how many one dousing of eggs where? Did you use the little red bags at we can find at just about any fish hobby store or some others? If this is info that is still to come in your write up just let me know and I’ll sit tight.

I received a mason jar full of eggs, so I am not sure how long that will last, but it looks like I will have them for quite awhile. I used ten ml of eggs per container, not sure what you mean by where? The females can live up to 3 months, and once they reach adulthood can produce something close to 300 cysts every 4 or 5 days. They also molt 15 times till they are fully grown. I want them to be full sized before I offer them to my horses!


Oh yeah, I upped the ante and added for a total of 30ml food. 1ml wasn't even visible....

[leliataylor]

These seahorses are not fry, but I forget their name. They are black, with gold specks on them. Since I DO NOT want to raise the fry, will hydroids be an issue? I may or may not do the bleach thing, depending on how hard growing them out proves to be.


You might want to start another thread on your seahorses. If you post pics I will do my best to ID them for you. How long are they? How old are they? Were they wild caught or captive bred? Where did you obtain them? If they are dwarf seahorses hydroids can kill them and if you are not using decapped cysts you will get hydroids.

[leliataylor]

I am buying two of those 30g tanks from BB, sso until I can do what I want with those, they may be put to use. I also have a 10g acrylic that could come into play. It is looking like the BBS are going to get way too crowded in these tubes, but I don't even really know what I am doing yet.
I believe the ones from yesterday have molted as I can see tiny little opaque things floating around along with the squigglers.
More later, I have to change their water....

You can grow them out in cleaned 5 gallon salt buckets with a sponge filter. I move mine first to one gallon aerated glass flower vases, then to salt buckets.

There is a difference between enrichments and grow out formulas. Enrichments are designed to gut load them for feeding to fish, grow out formulas are designed for optimal growth and do not foul the water like enrichments.

[ErikH]

Lelia, they are Kellogi seahorses, I found that out today. I am fairly sure they are ORA, and they do take frozen fairly regularly, which further makes me think they are CB. What kind of grow out formula are you using?

[leliataylor]

Lelia, they are Kellogi seahorses, I found that out today. I am fairly sure they are ORA, and they do take frozen fairly regularly, which further makes me think they are CB. What kind of grow out formula are you using?

For a grow out formula I just use the commercially available grow out formula. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4983

I am glad they are eating frozen food. That is a real plus. ORA does not raise kelloggi, I know of no one in the US that is successfully raising them. The one's that are entering the US are net/pen raised from Indonesia and are often hybrids between kelloggi and kuda. True kelloggis are a deep water species that grow to 11" and have proven to be difficult to keep alive in captivity. Sorry for the bad news.

The good news is, since they are taking frozen, someone has taken the time to train them to eat frozen so they should be in much better condition than most. It is also very possible they are CB and the species ID you got is incorrect. These days almost all the seahorses I see in LFS are being sold as "kelloggi" because that's what the wholesalers sell them as. Recently I saw a SH that was sold as a "kelloggi" and in reality it was a CB erectus. Best of luck with your seahorses.

[ErikH]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x315/erikharrison/Fish/Cuttle%20Tank/DSC_0229.jpg

There's a pic, I was wondering where I had stored them!


Update: Tube#1 crashed and burned. I took tube #2 and split it between the two. Tube#1 has about 3/4 of the total load, and I fed them. I set a timer to feed them again in ten hours...

[ErikH]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x315/erikharrison/Fish/Cuttle%20Tank/DSC_0265-1.jpg

[leliataylor]

It is hard to say for certain from the pics. They appear to have a high coronet with a large plate in front of it, a prominent eye, spots that run vertically and rounded spines. All of which are characteristic of kelloggi. One of the characteristics of of kelloggi are vertical lines. http://www.oceanrealmimages.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core%3AShowItem&g2_itemId=222126

Do they appear to have vertical lines running down their body or do they look spotted?

Kuda do not have prominent spines and they have a low coronet.

The second photo looks like a juvenile.

How long are they from the top of the coronet to the tip of their tail?

[ErikH]

Those were juveniles. They died, so I adjusted a few things for trying again. The new ones are about twice the size as those, from top to tip probably 5". They are definitely spotted. AD has a Solana with 5 or 6 in it. I saw some at Texas Tropical, and one of the guys there told me that they will grow and turn white.

BTW I have seen them very often locally over the past year.

[leliataylor]

The females typically turn a lighter color while the males usually stay darker. This is not true of other species of seahorses that I am familiar with.

[Mr Cob]

Those are some nice Horsies Erik!!!

[ErikH]

Those are some nice Horsies Erik!!!

Thanks!

I woke up this morning to find no dead brine. Tube#2 has officially made it further than Tube#1. I am happy. I fed 10ml of my food to them this AM after a water change. I have ben changing water every ten hours.

[ErikH]

SHNAP, woke up today to two tubes of death. The water gets very cloudy overnight. I only fed 10ml of food before bedtime, and when I woke up they were all dead. Am I feeding too much or too little? I also slowed the bubble production so the bubbles are the size of a pencil eraser.

It is also possible that the water quality is just crapping out overnight. We will see. Since I have kept this log, I am going to modify and feed 5ml instead to see if I get different results. I may go to a 5g bucket, but then I would need a heater, and frankly I don't really want to buy one unless I absolutely have to.

[Richard]

What are you feeding them?

[ErikH]

A tsp of baby food peas and one of sweet potatoes mixed with a glass of water. We made eggs this weekend, and I read that the yolk is good to add so I did. I also added 1/2 cup more water to the mix to dilute it further.

[ErikH]

I started two new tubes this morning at about 9 am, so we'll see where this goes.

[ErikH]

All was hatched at 12 midnight, suprising to say the least. I fed the contents of one tube to my fish and horses. The second container was then split into two, and fresh sw was used to make up the difference. As far as air flow goes, I figure there are about 16 bubbles in the container at any one time. It is much less like a storm in the tubes this go-round.
Since MAAST was down last night, I searched and searched for BBS info and came across an article that gives some really good static information, including dry weight of cysts etc.
http://www.saseahorse.com/brine_shrimps.htm

[Mr Cob]

Pics of the setup maybe??? Perdy please?:shades:

[ErikH]

Pics of the setup maybe??? Perdy please?:shades:
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x315/erikharrison/Fish/BBS%20Culture%20Setup/DSC_1062Large.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x315/erikharrison/Fish/BBS%20Culture%20Setup/DSC_1068Large.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x315/erikharrison/Fish/BBS%20Culture%20Setup/DSC_1069Large.jpg

There are pics. Pretty straight forward. :)

I am going to start weighing the dry bbs eggs before I do the next batch.

[ErikH]

Day three, all alive and squirmin' still. The air was up too high before which just killed the fry. Since the adjustment, there are now about 20 pencil eraser sized bubbles in the tubes at any given time. It is substantially less than before. I am feeding 3 times daily about 3ml of my snot mix. Hopefully they won't starve on me now! :)

[Mr Cob]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing the pics Erik!

[ErikH]

I am starting two new tubes, they get cruddy and I don't even realize. I am going to start scrubbing them daily. It seems that they don't grow too fast, I thought they would!?!

[Hamp]

Are you having much success growing them out?

[ErikH]

I just got back from vacation, and my inlaws are at the house still. I just haven't gotten around to it quite yet....

[d3rryc]

Any news, Erik?

[ErikH]

Nah, not quite yet. V-day is tomorrow and I'll have a house full of kids in a few hours... Probably will start next week...

[ErikH]

tomorrow is the day for new batches. They should be hatched by dinner. I do plan on reading up on decapsulation techniques..