Buckeye with pics

[DrMark]

I replaced my old coralife ro/di system today with a premium one from Buckeye. With the way my top off works via float directly from ro/di, i needed to add a check valve and an auto shutoff valve. Added a little complexity, but not to bad....only took an extra call to Russ to accomplish.
As i send water off regularly to www.awt.com (http://www.awt.com) and my silicates have been high, I added an extra stage (silica trap di stage). Not sure if it was just part of coralife being bad or not, but did it anyways.

I changed filters on the coralife routinely and the TDS was alway still about 6 in the ro/di water.
Ro/di water coming out right now measures 0. So all seems to be well.
Here are a couple of pics of system installed under my 214gal.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii112/mseanwilson/Fish/IMG_0515.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii112/mseanwilson/Fish/IMG_0517.jpg

[Submariner]

american wholesale thermographers?

[Bill S]

No, Mark, it was the lousy Coralife unit. Got one in my garage I can't bear to even GIVE someone.

BTW, beware that if your RO unit cycles on and off regularly, it DOES "leak" tds between cycles... What works best is if you have a large top off container that you let get low, and then refill. There are some top off devices that will let you do that.

[DrMark]

No, Mark, it was the lousy Coralife unit. Got one in my garage I can't bear to even GIVE someone.

BTW, beware that if your RO unit cycles on and off regularly, it DOES "leak" tds between cycles... What works best is if you have a large top off container that you let get low, and then refill. There are some top off devices that will let you do that.

Appreciate that. Unfortunately, under the big tank there is very little room for a top off container. The outflow from the ro/di goes directly to a float valve on the sump. Maybe Russ has some thoughts on it.
Mark

[Bill S]

What kind of float valve do you have? Many are horribly unreliable. They can easily lead to a flood and/or severe dilution of your tank. Don't ask me how I know... That's why I fill my 35 gallon container up once a week and then SHUT IT OFF. Ask Ace too - he almost completely wiped out his tank with a stuck valve a couple of years ago.

There may not be MUCH room, but there's probably SOME room. Ace just built a custom one.

[DrMark]

Will have to give it some thought. Have been using the float valve for a 18 months.
It is possible to fit an "odd shaped" top off container under there. Will have to think about it. Thanks
Mark

[Texreefer]

I will agree with Bill as I use a 35 gal top of container. fill it once overy 10 days or so then gravity feed the sump, however, I have had the same plastic float valves for 3 years and never had a single problem with them

[sharkboy]

american wholesale thermographers?

american water testing?

[DrMark]

sorry.......... awt= aquarium water testing

http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/

mark

[BuckeyeHydro]

Yes - having a float valve in the sump fed by an RO unit is not an ideal way to go. As suggested above it is better the feed a separate reservoir.

Russ

[Richard]

DrMark - This is the topoff unit I am using which would provide safety and allow you not to use a seperate reservoir. It would just go in line so the float valve would become a backup in case the solenoid ever failed somehow. Mine's worked flawlessly for 6 years now.

http://www.spectrapure.com/St_alc_p1.htm

[Bill S]

Richard, that's EXACTLY what he needs - but he'll still get a TDS "leak" with that setup. When the RO/DI unit kicks off, there's some seapage around the membrane. When it cycles back on, it takes a bit of flow to rinse it away. So, regular cycles are not good for TDS.

BTW, Richard. How ARE things? We miss you and Mark.

[Richard]

Richard, that's EXACTLY what he needs - but he'll still get a TDS "leak" with that setup. When the RO/DI unit kicks off, there's some seapage around the membrane. When it cycles back on, it takes a bit of flow to rinse it away. So, regular cycles are not good for TDS.

The level controller lets the water level in the sump drop about an inch before it opens the solenoid and refills the sump. Still not as good as having a large resevoir but the ro unit won't cycle nearly as much as with just a float valve.



BTW, Richard. How ARE things? We miss you and Mark.

All is well except my, uh, let's call it a sabbatical is coming to an end so I have to start job hunting next month...yuck. I've become really good at being a bum, too bad it doesn't pay better lol.

[DrMark]

Appreciate the responses. Looks like the best way is to come up with a topoff resevoir and only turn water on from RO/DI to fill it. Thats how I do it with the other tank (115gal). With this TDS leak, I have prob had higher TDS in this tank from the outset. Certainly hasnt hurt the tank any.
Will need to think about how to proceed.
Mark

[profntbtr]

ok i saw an article on exactly this that included pictures of how to do it, but i can't find it, so i will attempt to explain. basically you place the float valve at the end of a plastic tube (think 64 oz gas station beverage container) that extends almost to the bottom of the sump. place a one way valve on the very top of it, so the air can escape as the water fills the sump. when the float valve switches off the water level in the tube will remain the same until the bottom of the tube is no longer under water, at which point the water will flow out and start the process over again, hence preventing the ro unit from cycling on and off constantly.

[LoneStar]

Appreciate the responses. Looks like the best way is to come up with a topoff resevoir and only turn water on from RO/DI to fill it. Thats how I do it with the other tank (115gal). With this TDS leak, I have prob had higher TDS in this tank from the outset. Certainly hasnt hurt the tank any.
Will need to think about how to proceed.
Mark

Do you have room on the side of the tank to have an enclosed end table made? You could either make a custom reservoir container for the inside or find a container online and make it work. Have a hinged top so you could get access to it now and then. From the outside it would just look like a piece of woodwork. Place some framed photos or a sculpture on it to make it match the rest of the rooms decor.....

[DrMark]

Do you have room on the side of the tank to have an enclosed end table made? You could either make a custom reservoir container for the inside or find a container online and make it work. Have a hinged top so you could get access to it now and then. From the outside it would just look like a piece of woodwork. Place some framed photos or a sculpture on it to make it match the rest of the rooms decor.....

Nope. In the picture (old picture), hard to tell, there is only one "free" end and that is an arched walkway to the home office. There is a little space left under the tank that is odd shaped where I may be able to fit a custom shaped top off resevoir, would guess in the 15-20gal range. That is likely the route I will take. For now I will manually turn on the ro/di to top off the sump once a day.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii112/mseanwilson/Fish/DSCF1847.jpg

[DrMark]

just looked closely at the pic, must be over a year old pic, because I have a beautiful orange cap I have grown from a silver dollar size to almost basketball sized at the top on the near side. Really need to get more pics.
mark

[jrsatx20]

you r right dr mark i can see the cap. j/k
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/jrsatx20/DSCF1847.jpg

[Mr Cob]

you r right dr mark i can see the cap. j/k


LOL.

You should take some pics and show us Dr Mark....

[SoLiD]

you r right dr mark i can see the cap. j/k
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/jrsatx20/DSCF1847.jpg

You're actually spot on Ruben... Seriously. You must be one of those psychics or something. Do you have ESPN??? :bigsmile:

-David

[DrMark]

not far off....
here is the end of the tank
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii112/mseanwilson/Fish2/IMG_0526.jpg

[jrsatx20]

LOVE THE RBTA ON THE RIGHT TOP. NICE TANKS DRMARK

[Aquapod24]

I love that little dendrophylia (no spell check). Anyway, nice!

[BuckeyeHydro]

Mark - Did you get your system set up in a way that avoids frequent on/off cycling?

Russ

[DrMark]

Not yet.
I manually turn it on and off at the faucet under the tank.
If I leave it on, there is quite a bit of back pressure under current setup. Not sure that is a good idea.

Long term I will need to fabricate a custom shaped topoff resevoir to fill on an as needed basis that will fit in the one spot I have left under the tank.

Cant find any other solution!!
Thanks for checking in!
mark

[BuckeyeHydro]

OK. Sounds like you have the right idea - you sure don't want tank water syphoning back into the RO membrane housing. If you can, at least until you get something else set up, install a check valve or keep the end of the DI output tube above the water level so there is no risk of water flowing backward in the system.

Russ

[jroescher]

So what is an acceptable size for a top off container to avoid the TDS problem with cycling?

Also, if I use the use the RO unit for drinking water and the icemaker, doesn't that create the same cycling problem? And what is available to correct that?

[BuckeyeHydro]

I like a setup where the reservoir is about 1.1 times the weekly evaporation - that way you can make water once a week. Then let the filled reservoir feed a float valve in your sump.

Yes - the same condition exists with a pressure tank. A membrane's rejection rate is specified under specific conditions - you've probably heard at least some of these before. For example, for Filmtec 75 gpd membranes: 77 degree F feedwater, 50 psi, 250 ppm softened feedwater, and 15% recovery. Let's talk now about that "50 psi."

This is really a measure of "transmembrane pressure" - that is, the difference between the high pressure (feedwater) side of the membrane and the low pressure (permeate) side of the membrane (osmotic pressures also come into play but we'll omit that discussion here for clarity). So let's look at a couple example situations.

Example 1: 60 psi feedwater and 3 psi in the permeate tube. This would yield a net driving force/transmembrane pressure of 57 psi.

Example 2: 60 psi feedwater and 38 psi in a permeate tube that feeds a nearly full pressurized tank. This would yield a net driving force/transmembrane pressure of only 22 psi.

Because rejection rate is directly proportional to transmembrane pressure (as net driving pressure goes up, so does rejection), you can expect the rejection rate of the membrane in Example 2 to be considerably lower than the rejection rate of the membrane in Example 1.

A note on drinking water RO systems - people are generally less demanding in terms of final tds for drinking water systems than they are for aquarium use.

The other thing you can do with a drinking water (only) system is use a membrane with a lower gpd rating.

Russ