Thinking about getting out...

[Bill S]

Well, maybe not completely. But, I'm seriously, seriously putting together plans to tear down the 215. I've thrown over $1000 at the bryopsis, and it's won. As well, I just don't have time for the tank anymore.

I'll certainly keep the nano (it's my daughter's, but she moved to Denver nearly 2 years ago - I think it's mine now...). Maybe the 55.

Anyway, I thought I'd post my thoughts here first, to see if anyone could talk me out of it. As well, I have some real trophy SPS colonies that I might be able to make available. Once I see what I have AND get them off of the rock they are secured to AND make sure they are bryopsis-free, I'll offer them up.

For those on the "Pay it Forward" list, I'm going to suspend that for right now.

[justahobby]

There's nothing wrong with downsizing. It's supposed to be a hobby and if it's not fun why are you doing it? Re evaluate what's difficult. Maybe theres something that could be done differently ie. hardier fish and coral or set ups that dont require enough hardware to run a space shuttle. I would hate to see anyone want to pack up their bags on as great a hobby as this one.

[ErikH]

Bill, tearing down your tank would be tragic! Have you tried the three day lights out? Do a large WC before and after. After the 3 days, manually remove as much as possible. Then nudi the heck out if it. Your tank is an inspiration!!!

[jrsatx20]

hey bill it has not won. imo i would buy some new rock, cook the old n start with new aquascape. new scenery has helped me. n sorry to hear about nikki. i know thats a factor also.

[Bill S]

IF I keep the tank - and that's a BIG if. I'm thinking FO. The SPS is just way too demanding. And complex. As noted above, there's enough equipment to run at least a Saturn Rocket.

[caferacermike]

If any of you have been in Bill's shoes before, you might rethink the comments about it not winning. I once had a gorgeous tank, that is until I received some frags from another reefer. Soon after my tank was overtaken by the same algae. Within a couple of months all of my SPS was dead. I bought an expensive ozone producer and ended up wiping out my tank. I've been trying desperately for over 2 years to rid my tank of the stuff and instead have also lost my desire to continue with the hobby. You spend months of trying the "3 days no light large W/C" route and see how you feel when it doesn't work. I tried keeping my lights out for 2 weeks and then doing 50% daily water changes using RO/DI I produced at the house with zero effect. Gutted my refugium and started over using a different light, mangroves (20 of em almost a year old now), and all kinds of macro algaes. I added 3 phosban reactors inline using 3 different medias. I switched my Euroreef RS80 for a RS 180. I've bought hundreds of hermits and snails. I've spent an evening once a month manually removing the algae. Tangs, rabbit fishes, foxfaces, you name it I've tried it.

I now have a very well lit frog fish tank.

I can totally sympathize with you Bill. Might I suggest draining the tank and setting it up as a frshwater? If anything, it will allow you to enjoy an algae free tank for a while. Or at the least drain it for a few months, dry out all the rock, and reset the tank up as a FOWLR. You'll still be in the hobby but without some of the stress.

Think about how much fun I had after wiping out my tank, moving the 400g into the new house and then finding out the foundation can't support it. I'm in the process of getting a loan for the repairs so I can continue. I figure if anything at least I own all of the eqpt. Whether it takes me a month or 3 years to set it all up, at least it will all be there. It's taken me almost 3 years from the time I bought the tank to get this far.

[cpreefguy]

I have always been happier when I downsized.
I feel for you guys too, I saw Mike's tank, maybe not even in the height of its beauty, and I was awed by some of the things he had in there. Like that fat fat fat elegance.

It's got to be depressing.

Whatever you decide, you'll always have some friends here to help you out.

[wesheltonj]

Have you tried a Mespilia globulus, also known as Royal, Collector or Tuxedo Urchin yet? Or superspike it with Mg? Having seen your set up, I would not give up. If you have to, move the coral to the 55 and water blast the rock and start over.

[princer7]

Frag your corals and bank them in your 55 for a good month or two and dispose of areas affected. Drain the tank and replace with freshwater until you are ready to add the corals back. Hate to see you leave the hobby.

[RayAllen]

If you do down Size you will not regret it. I meen you will think about the big tank from time to time, but then you realize how much more time you have on your hands with the smaller aquarium and how much less money you spend to stock it etc..... I for one enhoy having a smaller aquarium and have just as much fun with it as I did with my larger ones.

[jroescher]

I know your probably completed frustrated with this and tired of anecdotal advice, but I'm with wesheltonj on this.

I've had a tuxedo urchin since the begining in my tank. I started with what I think is bryopsis along with a lot a hair algea. The only place I have bryopsis now is in the overflows where the urchin can't get. I grows like crazy in there but it's easy to pull out. I just have to keep up with it so that it doesn't clog the dursos. It's dark in there, so a lack of light isn't doing it.

If you hang in there long enough, maybe someday there will be the Streep method of bryopsis control.

[jrsatx20]

I've been in bills shoes. my 55 with 100#s of rock was covered in hair algea so bad it doesn't have coraline algea on it it looks like base rock. took me 6 months of water changes, manual removal, no lights for days to finally get rid of it all. no I have fowlr 55 n 1 anenome. I have also down sized with an 8 gal live rock n corals only. but like my big fish also.

[jc]

I'm having a similar predicament with my pond. I'm tired of fighting algae, mulm, and clogged impellers. I know you feel like just giving it a few more days or trying something new to fix your problems. Eventually you have to remember why you got in the hobby to begin with and that was for the enjoyment. Now it's turned it to a chore and darn near a part-time job. Time to hit the restart button and go back to the beginning. If you still want to keep the tank I would suggest going with a FOWLR. Think about the coolest fowlr tank you have seen and start daydreaming about what you want to design. How about a large angel fish, harlequin wrasse, or an eel. Sell your coral and use the money to buy a special fish.
When I first started I went to Jose's house to buy something and his coral tank blew me away. It was fantastic. Last time I went to his place he switched to a fish only setup and it was just as beautiful. He also said it was a lot less work. Reef or fowlr, as long as you enjoy it that's what matters.
If I knew how much time and money I was going to wind up spending on my tank I don't think I would have done a large reef. I decided that if it ever crashes I am going to sell off my equipment and do a fowlr tank. I'm also going to fill in my pond and move back down to a small manageable pond. Keep us posted.

[Bill S]

Thanks for all of the suggestions and encouragement. BELIEVE me when I tell you I have tried ALL of the ideas mentioned.

BTW, my tuxedo urchins (3) have been just plain excellent - at moving the bryopsis around the tank for me. They like to decorate themselves with it. I actually tried to "prune" one once when I just thought it was a bunch of bryopsis.

I firmly believe I could beat this thing with another 24-36 lettuce nudis. But, that's another $200...

As for moving corals to my 55. It has 4x48" T5s. It will marginally grow coral, but only at the top. I also have a LARGE fish load currently in the tank that I would need to do something with.

In the meantime, I'm trying to talk myself into going FO. I could remove all of the rock and sand and replace it with the rock in my 55. Replace the MH with T5s.

Don't know though. Don't know, don't know, don't know.

[cpreefguy]

Introspection, Introspection, Introspection :D

[Darth-Tater]

Bill, I will have a 75 gallon you can borrow. I am going to pick it up in a few days along with 2 250 watt pendants. It has a stand and canopy . You can borrow it for as long as you need it. (it is going to sit in my garage for a long while). If this will help let me know. You are more than welcome to use it. lmk

David

[Texreefer]

no matter how easy it was,, I don't think I could ever be happy with a fish only after having what I have now.. Sell a big colony or two to make the money you need and buy as many nudis as you need, keep plugging away and removing manually and when you beat it you will be so glad you didn't give up. I have had my share of trouble and i'm very glad I kept them

[Bill S]

It's not the $200. It's called economics 101: At some point in time, you need to quit throwing money at the problem.

[Kristy]

Hey Bill,

I have no advice to give or suggestions to make. You have been at this so long, I believe you when you say you have tried everything and I know how frustrating our hobby can get sometimes (and we have only been in it a couple of years.) So, I just wanted to sympathize and offer support- whatever you decide to do, shout if you need help with anything, moving stuff etc.
-Mike

[Texreefer]

It's not the $200. It's called economics 101: At some point in time, you need to quit throwing money at the problem.
I hear ya!! I just never learned that in school:bigsmile:

[mikedelgado]

Dont give up! years ago I had a bad problem with that stuff, I changed a few things around in my setup and maintenance practices then poof algea was gone,never to return. Hopefully.

[mikedelgado]

o ya , take out the sand and go naked. that helped big time for me. my wrasse is missing the sand a little but he got over it. no more daily wiping the glass of diatoms. once a week and its just a tiny bit.

[hobogato]

i know how you feel bill. maybe not with the bryopsis, but certainly other things that have happened (and currently are happening) with my tank. ultimately, you are the only one that has to live with your decision. the good thing is, nothing is absolute. if you make a decision and eventually decide you cant live with it, change it :) it isnt like anything you decide is final.

[tropheusmaster]

I am scared to post here cause every single time i post i get banned for padding the post. But here goes. I am sure it took you a long time to build up to where you are now, and i notice you are having a problem making you want to get out. I have a 180 and it is infested with flat worms. I too gave heavy thought to shutting it down. was scared to add flatworm meds as dying flatworms put off a toxin which kills everything in the tank. but i decided to tough it out. today i removed every rock and coral and did a iodine dip and killed all worms on them then worked on tank. i did not get them all but enough to medicate safely. In the end i was glad i made the dicission to keep it. but in your case you do have other tanks setup so i would understand you would not be completely out. If maast does not ban me again i will check back to see what you have decided. GOOD LUCK TO YA!!!!

[alasg001]

I understand your wanting to just downsize or quit all to well. To tell you the truth I am originally a Discus person, but after a move from Hawaii and finding out my 8 beautiful discus of 6 years became sick and ultimatly died before being shipped to my new home, I went back to freshwater common fishes just to fill the empty tank and a craving to have fish. I went through different phases in changes of aquascaping from plastics, rock work, to live plants then ultimatly back to buying a couple Discus that were of a quality not as good as my previous ones. Well another move and the fish being babysat at a friends (who did not keep fish) those young Discus were just to far gone by the time I had the tank up and running again. Central Texas just does not have many Discus keepers. I decided that this is to be the last move and wanted to change to a different setup. I decided to get my feet wet with a marine tank. The colors and animals just blew me away. The constant movement was mezmorizing. The coral bug hit me and I think I spent more time and money with the tank than the family. Well I made a decision to keep things simple and have found ways to make my small 55 gallon tank easier and cheaper. The kids still miss their Discus (they grewup watching them in a species only tank), but I believe are much happier spending more quality time with their dad. Ultimately I may set up another Discus tank since the wife and kids always get excited when they see a store with them. Its just hard for me to buy these poor quality fish at high prices, and the distributor I trust with the good stuff is far away in Hawaii. I know this is not much help, but only you can decide whats good for you, your sanity, and your family.

[Mr Cob]

Bill,

I personally agree with Mike (Texreefer), let the hobby pay for it's self. If you are confident you can beat it with more nudis...then sell some coral and use the money to purchase what you need!

When I first started this hobby I started off in all the WRONG directions and when I stumbled upon MAAST.org things started to change for me. I finally had a place to go to find reliable advice from experienced reefers. You being one of them! Your reef was the first home reef I had ever seen, not sure if you remember, but I do and so does my wife. I was so amazed at your tank that I asked if I could grab my wife who was in the car with my sleeping son. I actually switched with her and sat in the car with my son so she could go in to view your mini ocean :)

We were both so amazed at your tank and it truely inspired both of us to stick with the hobby even though money has always been an issue for us. But, the beauty of our hobby is that as our tanks mature they start to help us and as corals grow we can propagate and get the things we need for them!

I will speak up and say firmly "Stick with it"!

It seems you are just too darn close to call it quits!!! Again… If you are confident you can beat it with more nudis...then sell some coral and use the money to purchase what you need! Forget about “economics 101”, worry about that if your tank crashes.

[Mr Cob]

You da man Bill!!!

[princer7]

I firmly believe I could beat this thing with another 24-36 lettuce nudis. But, that's another $200...


Sounds like a group buy would be in order. I would be willing to buy a few when you were done with them. :bigsmile: thatfishplace.com (http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/208741/product.web) has them for $4.99.

[caferacermike]

I agree with you Bill about the urchins. I am in the same boat with my blue tuxedo urchins. They grow more algae on them than my rock does.

Honestly I don't think that lettuce nudi's will be of much help. When I had mine they only lasted about 2 weeks. I bought 20 of them. My fish ate them, my hermits ate them, the impellers of my pumps ate them, they got hung up and killed in my overflows... etc. They are not very large and in my opinion can't hold much algae in their bellies. Maybe if you had all the algae removed they might prevent another outbreak.


I think the only way to cure my tank will be to tear it down, dry the rock and rebuild it all.

[Bill S]

The nudis are $5 each at reeftopia.

[brewercm]

I totally understand on both counts. My last tank was a total loss to bryopsis also, just couldn't win the battle. This tank although I love it has just become more work than a hobby should be (especially with the sps). That's my reasoning for downsizing to the 58 gallon I'm going to. I'm going to be going all T5's with LPS, softies, and a couple of clams and fish. Just too much demand on my time and health any more for a tank this size to be fully enjoyable.

I know may not be pushing you in the direction of keeping it up but understand the thought from the other side. Sorry to hear about that though as that is a beautiful setup.

[coraline79]

as soon as I get my 125's lights in, my 30 is coming down. I have completely lost it to bryopsis as well. I havent tried many fancy tricks, but I have pruned and water changed with the best of them, and it has destroyed the tank. I had a colony of zoa's on unattached on the bottom, it grew into them and now you can't even see them. that took 2 days. I took every rock outnof my tank, scraping almost all the bryopsis off, 5 days later it looks like I hadn't tended to it in a month. I think it is good that I learned this on my small tank, now I know not to put anything crazy into my large one. I put a piece of birdsnest I bought from someone in there. with like 3 strands of what I thought was just hair algea, and that was all it took. I feel your pain Bill, but I already have too much invested in the big tank to rethink this one.

[Mr Cob]

How goes it Bill?

[Bill S]

Well, I've pretty much decided to get out of SPS. Right now I'm making last-ditch efforts on the Bryopsis.

I'm ordering a couple of hundred turbo snails and,

I'm doing the Tech M thing AGAIN to get the Mg up above 1800. Last time, it was a combo of Tech M and another Mg product, and it didn't work.

In mid-December, I'll start pulling and selling colonies. These will make some pretty nice Xmas presents...

[Mr Cob]

Glad to hear you have a clear direction Bill. Good luck with everything...the corals should bring in a pretty penny for you :)

I'm happy you'll still have the "big boy" tank, it will still be just as beautiful without the SPS.

[Richard]

I almost did the same to my 215 except it was out of control mushrooms instead of bryopsis that was the big problem. I tried one last hair brained idea, I hooked my pressure washer up to my saltwater mixer and blasted every rock clean. Worked like a charm on the shrooms and also all soft nuisance algae. Coralline and bacteria all survived so my tank didn't go through a cycle or anything.

[aquasport24]

Can you just pull everything out and start over again (while keeping all the colonies)? I know how hard it is to grow from 1" frag to a huge colony like the ones you have. I hate to see one of mine model tanks to go SPS less. What do you use to measure Mg beyond 1500? b/c the syringe only goes up to 1500.

[Bill S]

You just keep adding more - refill the syringe.

I've decided that I need to simplify my tank, 'cause we are out of town so much. This lets me drop my:

Ca reactor
Kalk reactor
Chiller
Downsize my lighting (reducing my electric bill)

[aquasport24]

Ok got it...good luck Bill.

[barderer]

Bill,

Have you tried doing next to nothing? Don't feed ANYTHING in your tank, take out the fish, don't introduce any new animals. Grow macro in a separate tank using tap water mixed salt and super saturate your main tank with it. And when I say super saturate, I mean SUPER saturate. Eventually, all the nutrients will be exhausted and it will stop growing.

Nick

[Bill S]

Bryopsis is a low nutrient pest. Grows with low/zero nitrates and phosphates. In any case, the corals would have to eat.

I'm going to remove the SPS and sell it off. Any of the rest I can keep without transferring bryopsis to my 55, I'll keep. Then all of the rock and sand will come out of the tank. I'll filter the heck out of the tank, nuke the fuge and the sump, and put rock from my 55 into it. Then I'll go to softies and some LPS. I'll swap the lighting for t5, and get rid of the chiller, calcium reactor and kalk reactor. Keep it simple...

[jroescher]

Maybe I should just come take of your tank for a while. I seem to be able to kill just about anything! Except for aptasia now.

[brewercm]

Sorry to hear about all that SPS being gone but I did the exact same thing except I actually downsized my tank also. Now picked up the TX5 system for the 58 gallon I got from Donnie. Just waiting to pick up some final things I need to in order to get it up and going. Seen some great deals on live rock lately but without anything to put it in at the moment I'd just make it dead rock.

I may have a couple of pieces of SPS like caps or so but that's about it this time around.

[rocketeer]

Any luck with all those snails?

Jack