new anthias too shy, not eating

[Kristy]

We bought a new anthias 9 days ago, told that it was a carberryi anthias. I read up on this species before purchasing and thought it was a reasonable risk, that it should be comparable in care to our trio of lyretails that are very happy in our 210g. Acclimated her but did not quarantine her (this was a debatable decision, I realize, but that's what we did) and when she was released to our tank, I began to wonder if she had been properly identified and did some more research. I've now concluded that she is actually an "evansi anthias" aka "evan's anthias" aka "yellowtail goldie anthias."

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/mekdean/210glateAugust08006-1.jpg

She's very beautiful (still looking great and healthy after nine days with little to no food; wish my lousy photography could convey her true purpley color), but SO shy that eating is problematic. She hid so effectively when she was first released that we did not see her at all for three days, then only briefly the fourth day. There are no longer any fish harrassing her whatsoever, and there never really were, just a few that were curious about her, which sent her back into hiding. I realize that getting new anthias to eat can be tricky anyhow, but when she is out swimming she seems to be hunting for food in the water column, occasionally lurching after something so microscopic that I cannot even see what she is going after.

The main problem seems to be that whenever we introduce ANY food, all the fish in the tank get so excited that she darts into hiding. I *think* I was successful in getting her to eat a few bites on Friday by spending two hours distracting all the other fish to the other end of the tank with some fresh nori and sinking pellet food, then quickly shooting a bit of live brine shrimp combined with other tiny food to her end of the tank. After doing this a few times, our big fat greedy fish have clued in and now suspicously dart down to her end of the tank to see what she is getting each time I try my distraction technique.

Foods I have tried feeding her:
frozen mysis
frozen spirulina enhanced brine
cyclops
cyclopeeze
Arctipods
live brine shrimp

I have more live brine shrimp on order as I read they will sometimes take this when they won't eat anything else and I can see how it might be helpful in training her to take our food to mix them together, provided I can get her to come out and eat.

If you have ANY suggestions whatsoever, or even just condolences for my latest mistake, I am rapidly running out of ideas and feel terrible that she will soon starve to death if we are unable to help her.

[RayAllen]

Sounds like you are doing everything right; simply a more difficult species. 2 thing I dont think you have tried are. Try soaking some food in garlic and see if that does the trick, id also try a good flake like formula 1 or 2 which my fish love. I feed flake and frozen on alternate days.

Did the fish store tell you what they were feeding?

[Kristy]

Oops... guess I should add to what I've tried:
food soaked with garlic (and without)
food soaked with zoe vitamins (and without)
Rod's food
New Life spectrum pellet


Can check into the formula 1, 2 flake you mentioned but I am not too optimistic as most fish will get excited by frozen before flake.

Also, not sure how much faith I have in the fish store's reports on what she was eating. Thanks for the response!

[RayAllen]

WOW, you really have done everything you can besides isolating it in a seperate tank work with it more closely. Although doing this as you know would just stress the fish out even more. Only time will tell with this one; Good luck.

[ErikH]

Try the flake food, you may be suprised. Good Luck!

[aquasport24]

I started out with 7 anthias ,but 2 did not make it for the same reason. I've tried alot of diffrent foods but they kept spitting it out. Try to feed them at night when everybody else are sleeping or use a eggcrate as tank divider.The good thing is that they can live without food for a long time before they die, so you have some time on your side. How is it belly looks (is it hollow and cave in yet?)?..Good luck guys.

[Kristy]

Thanks for the encouragement, Ray, Erik and Giau. After all I've read on the net, I don't have a whole lot of hope, but we will go out trying everything we can!

Giau, you gave me a good idea to try feeding her at different times. She is very active in the early morning and not as active in the evening (when we usually feed). We also feed a bit here and there during the day (and I've been trying to feed her MANY times a day!), but our main feeding for the tank is in the evening. I will try to offer her some food down in her hiding spot in the early morning before the lights come on and before the other fish come out.

She does not have a sunken belly, still looks pretty good and healthy (not sure if you can tell from the photo), so perhaps there is a chance she will get the hang of it after all.

[DrMark]

Good luck. I know how much you like anthias and research them.
I hope the fish turns the corner for you.
I will be purchasing my group soon.
mark

[sly fox]

i used to keep purple queens, until i went away for 3 weeks and they didnt have the feeding schedule... what i learnt about them is that in the wild they have a high bite rate, and usually wait for food to come to them... a very copepoddy established fuge helps

when i got them they didnt eat at all and i got them eating through disolving a cube of cyclops with the pumps on and the return pump off, thsi way the food blows around the tank ....if they are behind the rockwork and food goes near their mouth they will eat, i then introduced baby brine shrimp.... made by ocean nutrition...it is more nutritious, a little goes a long way, and would feed with bigger food for the other fish

one problem is that anthias eat smaller amounts of food over a period of time... most species arent like wrasse darting around and getting food, in nature they mainly sit in a current and wait for food to come along.... i found for the purple queens the optimum feeding was 5 times a day, 1 general feed for the tank and 4 tiny amounts of abby brine, and that way i kept my shoal alive and healthy, they looked fantastic, i went away for 3 weeks, and they were being fed 1x a day and when i returned i had lost them all :(

so basically my advice, based on a different species that i had success with, is small amounts of small sized food frequently.... the problem is you have to balance putting too many nutrients into your tank, i developed an al;gae problem, my skimmer is rated far larger than my tank...i took care of that by a filter sock changed every 2 days ...it seemed to do the trick

hope that helps

[AdamZC]

any luck Kristy?

[SoLiD]

Hello Kristy,

I just wanted to give you some tips that have worked for me after losing 5 of the first Anthias I purchased (each bought with in 4 months) simply because they would not eat or do anything other than hide. At first I thought it was impossible to keep one alive but with these methods I have been successful in keeping the next 9 Anthias I purchased alive and thriving.

1. Definitely quarantine them; even if it's for a short time. It isn't because they are disease prone, but mainly because I have found that they don't like to compete for food when they are new to the tank. In a QT they are the only ones in there and they have a better chance of eating with out stiff competition from fish already adjusted in your DT. Also, I've found that this is the best thing to do if you have bought only one Anthias.

2. Don't have too much rock in the QT or they will spend most of their time hiding. You can have one or two medium sized caves, but that's it. That way when you do feed the tank, they can visually see the falling food, and dart out to grab a quick bite. After it or they are swimming and eating regularly, they are ready to be acclimated and introduced to the Display Tank.

3. Quarantine and Introduce them in the Display Tank altogether if you can. In my humble experience, One Male with one female or a couple of females, will do better than just one fish. It's not impossible to successfully introduce and have just 1 Anthias in the display tank because I have done it, and I know many others that have, too. It's just a bit harder on the fish (I think) to only add him or her to the the display tank to be by itself. I think they are genetically programmed to be part of a group. So I think it helps them to over come the stress of being new to a display tank if they have some of their own kind in there, too. When they are by themselves, they'd just rather hide. Males will come out of hiding to show their dominance and claim a female Anthias if she is swimming around his visual field. Females will come out of hiding if they see a male swimming about showing them that it is safe to be swimming around in that part of your DT.

Example: About a year and a half ago I bought a Male Square Anthias. I acclimated him for 4 hours before adding him to the tank and introduced him when the lights were out. He hid 99% of the time in the same cave and wouldn't eat or come out of hiding for more than just a couple of seconds at a time. I thought to myself, "Ahhhh here goes number 6, I give up". After week I was casually talking to a friend and I mentioned it to him. He was the only one I knew of at the time who kept Anthias in his display tank. He told me that he had the same Trio in his tank for over 3 years. I asked him how many died before he was successful and his reply was, "ONE". He told me that a friend in the hobby suggested to him that he should buy his next Anthias in a Male, Female, Female Trio. To which he told me that I should buy my Male Anthias some girl friends. I thought to myself "great thats all I need, 3 dead Anthias' instead of just one". But I went ahead and bought them the next day anyway. Well, I brought them home and acclimated the girls to the display tank. After 3 hours I put them in at about 4PM. Within 1 or so hours he was out strutting his stuff :applause:. He was flashing his dorsal fin and showing off like he was the "Cat's Meow" and I was pretty happy :bigsmile:. After about 2 hours had passed I tried a combination of foods and he was eating Mysis and Formula One Flakes with vigor after not eating a bite for more than a week and a day. After 6 months months of having them, I sold the 3 to one of his friends because I wanted some smaller sized Lateral Anthias'. A year and a half later the same Trio is still alive and well, Even Though They Aren't In My Tank! So I guess his friend was right. They love the company of each other... "Thanks Dan & Robert!" :bighug:

4. Lastly, find a food that they like. They will spit out what they don't like... every time. Most of the first couple of feedings in the QT will be wasted because they will likely stay hidden. This can be a hard process of elimination, so feed often and in very small amounts. I used a turkey baster and only fed a couple of brine shrimp, mysis, and flake food at a time. Erik is right; for some reason Anthias really love flake food. When they start eating I like to put just one shrimp at a time in there to make sure that it gets eaten, but you can do what works for you.

If you are like me it hurts when even just one small fish dies no matter what he or she costs. That's why I go through so much just to keep them alive. My wife can usually tell when I lose a fish because I get pretty bummed. Thankfully it hasn't happen in quite some time.:blushing: I hope this helps to give you and others some ideas in keeping their swimming buddies alive. :)

-David

[Kristy]

Wow... Thanks David for taking the time to share all the great info! Also thanks to sly fox for your tips and suggestions. After we began to realize that 1. we were having a problem with this one, and 2. this is not the kind of anthias we thought it was, I was really kicking myself for failing to quarantine her. Seems like it would be much easier to teach her to take food without the competition.

Our trio of lyretails was so easy that it may have given me false confidence (also supports your safety in numbers theory, David). I love the look of having different kinds in the tank. Thought this one might have been a good choice to add because the body is shaped just like my female lyretails, only different coloration.

I'll have to do some reading about the idea of adding another for company (oh great, more fish to kill!) We have our healthy, happy trio of lyretails (1 male, 2 females) plus this timid female evansi. Would I add a pair of evansis (+1 male, +1 female)? Assuming I could even find them... would have to order from Live Aquaria, no doubt.

General update: (day 11)
She seems to be coming out of hiding a bit more each day and getting a little more comfortable in her surroundings. Last night was the very first time she stayed out for the evening feeding and I was very excited about that. Can't say that she even ate a bite, but she didn't run and hide, so that's progress in my book. She tends to stay hidden for most of the hours that the MHs are on, not sure if it's the brighter lights that she doesn't like or the noise of the fans that are on the same timer. (Anthias are known to prefer dimmer surroundings).

I also tried Giau's suggestion the past two mornings and have shot food her direction before the lights come on in the morning, at a time that all the other fish are sleeping but I see her head coming out of her little cave. So far all I've seen is that she hides further in the cave when I do this, but maybe some of the food is still floating around when she comes out a few minutes later and maybe she gets a bite or two this way?

I continue to try her on many different kinds of foods and small foods in particular and I do so several times a day. I've seen her body jerk when she lunges after something that is floating by, but it's really hard to say for sure that she's eating and what she's eating (might be pods even?). Also, if she is only getting a few bites a day of food that is so tiny I cannot even see it, then it does not seem like that could possibly be enough to sustain her. Hoping that it will increase. Will be buying some good flake today.

Lastly, yes, it is really hard to lose a fish, particularly when it is due to mistakes on our end. She is a beautiful healthy specimen and the only thing that would keep her from thriving is mistakes in our husbandry. Reading that we have brought home a species of fish that is described in literature as "very delicate," "very difficult," "should be attempted only by experts," and "best left in the ocean" creates a very sobering sense of responsibility for me. (Strangely, other sources describe her as "moderate" so we'll see...)

Thanks to all for the support. Wish us luck and I'll try to keep you posted on any signficant progress.

[Kristy]

Here is our current approach to dealing with our anthias problem...

Just ordered another evansi anthias from Live Aquaria in order to provide her with a buddy. I struggled with whether to buy two more to have a trio, but am feeling so guilty that I even own ONE of these guys that should probably just be left on the reefs. This was the best compromise I could come up with.

The evansi is not as easily apparent which gender you are getting as most anthias (although with scrutiny of photos, etc. I can say with confidence that I have a female) and Live Aquaria does not allow for the request of a specific gender of fish. Because all anthias are hermaphroditic, I think it is safe whichever gender of fish they send us. If we get a male, they should pair up. If we get a female, the dominant one will switch to male.

Also ordered two bags of live adult brine shrimp in hopes the anthias might eat the live food and maybe can be taught to transition to other foods. AND we're also setting up a brine shrimp hatchery to be able to hatch some more and offer them later on.

Amazingly, she still looks pretty healthy, which makes me think maybe she is getting a few bites more than I've seen... because 12 days of no food would begin to show in her belly, right?

If this doesn't work, we're out of ideas!

[SoLiD]

Live food is another option. Anthias love to eat shrimp. I like to feed the tank baby grass shrimp when I can. Good Luck!