Help me overcome this disease...

[krazykdnb]

Ok..I tried to search this website for some advice before I asked but did not come up with anything. I have a regal tang that apears to have ICH. He has little white specs all over him. He is eating and behaving just fine, but I would like to get him into my hospital tank so that I can treat him. I can't catch the little *******. I have torn my tank apart. Anyone have a good method to catch a fish?

I have a bottle of Quick Cure...anyone have a better treatment method?

Also, is there a way I can treat the whole tank without hurting anybody?

This is a 55 GAL reef setup
with a 20 GAL refugium

Water perimeters:
PH 8.4
Salinity 1.023
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0

Tank inhabitants:
2 sutocromis
1 foxface rabit fish
1 highfin goby
1 ocolaris clown
1 green cromis
1 Spotted Manderin (I know I can't spell)

1 cleaner shrimp
1 decorator crab
1 pistol shrimp
about 20 hermits
2 turbos
20 small snails

misc coral
1 anenome

Krystal

[clamgal]

I just spoke to someone who battled ich and he said he was able to get rid of it with a UV sterilizer. I'm not an expert, but I've heard that before. HTH

[krazykdnb]

Do you know if he used any other methods in conjuction?

[Bill S]

Ugh.

Try the SEARCH function. You will find we re-hash this subject about twice a month. Lots and lots of opinions.

Mine? If it's eating, keep feeding it well and leave it be.

[Kristy]

We agree with Bill. We just went through this when we upgraded to the big tank. Feed the crap out of them. We fed frozen twice a day and hung algae 3+ times a day. No guarantees but keeping them eating, fat and happy seems to be the trick. I think the UV helps to keep them from breaking out, but not once they get it.

Everyone's tank gets ich, someone said it is the "herpes" of the fish world. Good luck...

Oh, and Bill's right about the search function too...

-Mike

[zcatzmeow]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=5016&cmpid=03csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0525234000000

I was a skeptic at first, because I'm used to freshwater ick that is a beast to get rid of. So maybe it was coincidence, but after several days of feeding garlic soaked food, the ick went away. :)

[Bill S]

Here we go:

Treat a cold, it goes away in a week.

Let it run its course untreated, it lasts 7 days.

[krazykdnb]

Ugh.

Try the SEARCH function. You will find we re-hash this subject about twice a month. Lots and lots of opinions.

Mine? If it's eating, keep feeding it well and leave it be.


Like I said, I tried searching this site and didn't find anything. Thank you for your advice though.

[Bill S]

Try the Emergency Section:

http://www.maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41512

http://www.maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40599

Looks like the search function doesn't work on 3 letter words!

[barderer]

you can try the deer in the headlights technique to catch him. Worked on my clarki. Watch him for a few nights and take notice of the usual spot he sleeps. Then when its lights out cover the tank with a cloth. Come back two hours after lights out and blast the area where you are used to seeing him with a bright light. You should have about 3 seconds to scoop him up. Or if your tank is large. Use a slurp gun at feeding time.

Nick

[z28pwr]

When I moved from my 380 to my 600 I had a horrible Ick outbreak since the LR was out for a long time, I tried multiple things such as feeding with garlic, melafix, ich attack you name it and my fish still were dying. I ordered a decent size UV sterilizer and haven't lost a fish to ICK since then.

[Bigun]

I found that letting it run its course works best for me.

[mattymalcolm]

I think all regal tangs get ich at one time on another. Mine got it and it just went away after about a week. It did not even effect the other fish. The cleaner shrimp also helped I think.

[krazykdnb]

Of course, like a concerned parent, I watched him for along time last night. The cleaner shrimp was all over him. I also put a cleaner wrass in there that was picking them off of him as well. I woke up this morning and most of them are gone. One of my sutochromis has it too but he is too aggressive to let the cleaner shrimp or the cleaner wrass to pick them off. I went to the LFS and picked up a bottle of Bifrane+ which has instructions for making a food mixture so that it doesn effect your coral. I will let you know how it works.

[ErikH]

FYI, I would never use "treatments" as Bill stated above. Good water quality is the key. Keep up with water changes and you should be fine. Don't listen to salesmen, as they are out too sell you something. You may know more than they do. Ever heard of Geek Squad? :D

[reeferRob]

I found that letting it run its course works best for me.

I agree with all who say let it run it's course!! Chasing it around the tank and then dumping into a new environment only stresses the fish that much more. Keep nori in the tank constant, keep the water paramaters constant and let it settle down and Ick will go away. I would almost guarantee that fish is stressed for some reason (new, parameters. bully in the tank). Please don't add to it's stress! MHO and experience only!


Rob

[Bill S]

OK, I'm sorry for what follows. In other words, I'm apologizing in advance.

So, you ask everyone for an opinion, you get opinions from folks who have a lot of experience, and instead of listening to them, you go with the guy/gal trying to sell you something. Wow. Sorry I bothered to answer your post.

P.S. Can someone make this thread a "sticky".

P.S.S. Yes, I'm now apologizing AFTER my post too.

[drgnbttrfly]

I had a tang that got it too...and it didn't go away despite the fat and happy ...the ich got worse ...but she slept in the same place every night.

Some of those searches will tell you to treat...diff methods of treatment.

Instead of letting my fish die...I finally QT'd. I use a big and a small net and sweep from both ends to the middle and it takes me no time to catch her. I did tear my tank down but I quarantined everything in sep tanks including my inverts to prevent reinfestation.

I had to use formalin but IMO this is last ditch...and it was my last resort after trying the temp and water changes and uv sterilizer and feedings and garlic

I used a formalin treatment (just one) and changed the tank after one treatment to another clean tank with the tank at the same salinity and PH...salinity was kept slightly low because it makes it hard for ICH to live and less stressful on the fish's system for short terms. They tank hopped and had HUGE water changes for ten days to recover from the stress of the Formalin. Then they were given a less invasive five day treatment. This was followed by huge water change and they were always fed very well.

My regal tang had spread the ich to virtually all the fish in the tank...even the cleaner wrasse. She had it so bad it had gotten into her eyes...she was looking like she would die in days. She is shy again ...and mad at me for moving her from her huge tank to sit in QT...but she is alive and very healthy. I have not seen any ich on her since the formalin treatment and all of the places where she had cysts on her are healing and regaining color.

The water changing tank hopping was to keep any hangers on that lived through treatments from coming with the fish tank to tank. They were then flushed when the tank was cleaned while the fish inhabited the other tank.

I think had I waited another day or two...my fish...at least my tang...would have died. The others may have made it but because of the tangs problems with it...I needed to get it out of the tank.

I am now gonna be a hard core QT person.

I did keep my tanks between 79-81 during QT and salinity at 1.018.

Make sure you keep water around for massive changes. I would say don't waste your money treating the entire tank. If they don't have a host they die. Remove all your fish and QT. Then you don't have to worry about your inverts or worry about copper poisoning. I didn't use any copper.

If you use Formalin ...USE GLOVES or have tongs available to work with and you NEED airstones to give them oxygen in the water. Especially since warmer water holds less oxygen.

Good luck...hope some of that made sense.

[don-n-sa]

I used to have a 240g that was stocked with many fish including 5 tangs. Whenever I added a new fish or moved rocks around at least one of them would show signs of ick. MY purple had it the worst and it lasted for almost two weeks but he overcame it on his own. I have pics to prove it...do a search for "ick chronicals" , I believe that was the title I used.

As long as it is eating it will fight it and win IMO. So like the others have said ...if it is eating and swimming around good, leave it be. You actually are doing more harm than good by chasing it around trying to catch it. The stress alone can make it stop eating...then he/she will most likely pass.

[drgnbttrfly]

I do agree that if you can't catch quickly try another method...because that is stressful.

Also you don't want to wait until your fish is on deaths door to treat if you have to.

Some strains of ich are just very persistant. I DONT suggest treating with chemicals first.

You can try to QT her and any other fish that show signs and do massive water changes on display and QT for up to 8 weeks before returning. If you don't QT all the fish till its gone...you will not know its gone from your tank.

You need to QT everything that goes into your tank even rock and inverts because though they don't get it they can carry it.

The water changes will get rid of free floaters and you can run a sterilizer on your small QT to help get additional free floaters. Use bare bottom so there is no sand to attach to and keep the tank clean.

I changed the tanks rotating them between 20 gallon tanks every so many days because I didn't want them sitting in their own filth. You want them in pristine conditions eating well to get better.

If you have to chem treat...don't feel bad about it...even some of the best keepers have to...sometimes a fish just can't get rid of it. ICH lowers immunity to other things and can make them susceptible to other marine disease as well. Keep that in mind. That is another good reason to QT and baby your baby.

[tropicana]

I had 3 different times with 3 different fish with ICK. I had a Yellow Tang, a Volitan Lionfish(had it worst of all), and a Purple tang. They all had it pretty bad. 1 of the times (Lionfish) I scooped him out, did a 10min Freshwater Dip(RODI), then fed with Garlic in food. I bought a UV 18w for 55g, Feed LOTS AND LOTS of greend to the Tangs, and the Lionfish had LOTS AND LOTS of silversides. This overcame the ICK and I havent seen it for Ages since!

[krazykdnb]

Ich is gone. I appreciate all the advice.

K

[drydocked]

I pasted the thread below from Kelly Jedlicki's forum on Marine Depot. I hope it helps.



A common thread you will hear, "my fish was doing fine for a couple of weeks & all of a sudden white spots appeared". The spots can often appear after there has been a change in the tank (a stressor) such as sudden water parameter changes (change in pH, alkalinity, ammonia, ORP, temperature), new tank mate added, mating/courting, aggressive substrate vacuuming or tank redecoration. Chronic stress (stress that goes on for a prolonged period of time - days - weeks - months but doesn't acutely cause behavioral changes in the fish). Examples of this would be chronic suboptimal water quality (chronic low oxygen levels, ORP or pH), inappropriate or tainted/spoiled food, unwitnessed aggressive tendencies or inappropriate tank mates. These chronic conditions put strain on the fish's immune system where once it was able to fight off the pathogen/parasite, now becomes infected.
In order to understand the parasite, one must understand the life cycle of the parasite. When one sees the actual white spots, that is the adult often referred to as trophonts. These will mature and encapsulate themselves and fall off of the fish to the floor/substrate. The encapsulated cysts are now called tomonts. Tomonts will divide/multiply into small ciliated (hairlike) organisms. They are now called tomites. Tomites swarm the tank looking for new hosts (fish). This parasite bores into the mucosa of the skin, fins, and gills and then continues its life as a trophont.....and the circle of life continues. This process takes several days so often hobbyists will see spots "come and go". The ich is not gone but merely entering a new cycle and multiplying.
Symptoms besides the white spots include:
1. scratching and erratic/frantic swimming(fish trying to rid itself of the boring pest).
2. increased or heavy breathing, with the fish tending to stay at the water surface, close to water return pipes/powerheads or in airstone bubbles (parasite in gills affecting respirations).
3. increased mucous production (slime).
4. eye cloudiness (especially with puffers).
When left untreated, this parasite infestation can lead to other secondary opportunistic infections - bacterial infections like fin rot, red patches, ulcerations.
The display tank is infected with the parasite. If the fish has a strong immune system, the fish has a chance (I am not a betting person so don't ask me to place odds or chances) of overcoming the infestation. With that being said, the constant presence of the parasite and reinfection until (if ever) the fish develops an immunity/resistance can cause chronic stress and the fish can become victim to something else (bacterial, fungal or worm infestation.) Adding new fish at this point, even if they have now been properly quarantined , to this system is risky. They too will be exposed and they will surely become infested.
To rid the tank of the parasite:
I would recommend removing ALL of the fish and place in a separate bare bottom quarantine tank. By removing the fish, the parasite does not have a host to complete its life cycle. The tank will have to remain fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 4 weeks, I prefer 8 weeks. Another option would be to treat the main tank with copper. I do not recommend this especially if this is a reef, one with liverock or substrate. Copper will KILL inverts, corals and the micro fauna on the live rock. Substrate will leach/absorb the copper and the therapeutic treatment levels needed to cure/rid the parasite will not be achieved. There are many advertised/marketed "reef safe" ich cures - I don't recommend them. If you visist enough sites, talk to enough hobbyists, you will find those that highly recommend these products and then others that have had miserable or disastrous results....this is true about every aspect of life and science. I do not gamble when it comes to the life of an animal, fish or human.
What to do for the fish:
All the fish need to be treated in a separate quarantine/hospital tank.
*Hyposalinity (S.G. 1.009 - measured with a refractometer at least daily) for a minimum of 4 weeks. The parasite can not live in hyposalinity.
* The tank needs to be bare bottom (no substrate) with hiding spots for the fish. Hiding spots should be things that can be sterilized after each use - pvc pipe/couplings or those plastic caves/decorations used in freshwater tanks.
* There should be some source of biological filtration. I prefer air driven sponge filters that can be cycled or maintained in your display system's sump or a sponge or bioballs in a HOB (hang on the back filter). Both of these can be quickly removed from the display system and added to the QT.
* Additional aeration (air stone or power head pointed from the bottom of the tank to surface) will also be needed as these fish are stressed and this causes an increase demand for oxygen.
*Another option is to treat with copper in the quarantine/hospital tank. Copper has been proven as an affective treatment. Copper too is an irritant and fish breeders have found it to affect fertility. Copper kills inverts, algaes, corals. Some fish (scale-less fish, elasmobranchs) are very sensitive to copper and do not do well. If you use copper, in addition to the other water parameters, you must monitor the copper levels daily to prevent toxicity as well as subtherapeutic levels (low) as both extremes will affect the outcome/cure.
Whether you choose hyposalinity or copper treatment, you must monitor the water parameters in the tank at least daily as pH, ammonia and nitrite levels can change rapidly. This causes additional stress which can affect the success of cure. Frequent water changes and the addition of buffer to maintain pH are required.
Improving the fish's immune system will also help. You can do this by the addition of beta glucan, vitamins and garlic to the fish's diet daily while in treatment.
Watch closely for secondary infections as mentioned above. Antibiotics may need to be added. I would not recommend treating with antibiotics prophylactically or "just in case" as this can add stress or lead to a drug resistant pathogens.
Don't like these proven methods of cure- The only other option is to break down the tank & start over.
Wow - I now have writer's cramp and this is just the "reader's digest version"
Everyone still awake?
Best possible advice - Quarantine everything, you won't regret it!

[markreflex]

in hospital tank,put temp to 82, salinity 1.010, dont turn off lights, quick cure for 3 days.

[SoLiD]

Welcome to Maast.... The both of you!!! :applause:

[drgnbttrfly]

Are your fish still ich free or did it cycle back? Curious...hope your babies are well.

[krazykdnb]

They are doing great...the problem never came back. :-)

[tropicana]

If they ever get stressed real bad they might get it again. Keep your nutrients low and feed lots of greens and they should do well.