The dreaded Marine Ich Thread...request for your thoughts?

[Mr Cob]

Would you mind viewing this thread link below and let me know what you think in regards to facts and experience relating to marine ich.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

I have read many threads on maast.org about Marine Ich and there seems to be many opinions and differences on this subject.

I have had a scopas tang for the last 3 months that had ich the first week I bought him and it was gone until recently I bought a Powder Blue Tang. The scopas had ich the next day again and one week later (yesterday) my Powder Blue gets ich. The scopas is no longer showing signs nor are any of the other fish. Also, tearing my tank down to quarantine for several weeks or catching fish are not actual options for me.

My tank parameters are all normal, I'm feeding morning and night with garlic extract, nori on a clip, raised my temp to 83 degrees, doing 5gallon H20 changes daily and skimming wet. Based on my reading from the link posted above my attempts at helping my fish seem to all be myths.

Your thoughts???

[Richard]

I only scanned over the article but it looks to me like he has taken a lot of individual things that are factually correct but drawn the wrong conclusion i.e. if you get ich in your tank your fish are destined to die from it. I'm all for qt'ing because it is easier to deal with ich in a qt tank but it isn't correct to imply that fish will always die from ich without qt'ing and treating them

The things your are doing are fine although I think you need to keep them (especially the PB) better fed until they develop a stronger immunity to the parasite. Something easy that you can do is don't clean the side panels of your glass and allow algae to grow enough so the tangs can graze on it in between feeding. Always keeping some nutritous macro algae in the tank will also provide a constant food source without affecting your water quality. Red gracillaria is a good choice and you can order it online. Remember, fish like tangs are evolved to graze constantly throughout the day so simulating that will get their immune system functioning the best.

Yes you will have ich existing in your tank for a very long time but as I and many others can tell you it does not mean they are doomed. Think of it this way, every day bacteria are attacking your body but that doesn't guarantee your going to get sick constantly.

I should also mention that powder blues are very vulnerable to succumbing to ick. So you really have to keep up with keeping them very well fed & water quality very high or they will go downhill really quickly.

You should also aviod adding new livestock until it is well under control. Introducing multiple strains of ich can push the fishes immune system over the edge.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks Richard. I'm going to continue on the same path and see what happens. I have algae in the tank and added chaeto. I also have some dragon's breath in the sump that I'm going to add to the main display. I've been keeping nori on clips as well...but my other fish...corris wrasse, chromis and bi-color blenny devour it!

What do you think about raising the temp? I raised mine to 83 degrees and had planned on keeping it there for atleast a week to hopefully help keep the parasite numbers down.???

I also picked up some Live Red Algae in a bottle that I've been feeding and the PB loves it. It seems to be the only thing he is eating that I can observe.

[Richard]

The red algae (MacroFeast I'm guessing) in a bottle is probably gracilaria (aka Ogo). Keep using that. For some reason most of the online sources for bulk gracillaria aren't shipping right now. ORA has 1/2lb bags of it (which is alot). Maybe one of the LFS can get it for you, should work out alot cheaper than the bottle.

[Mr Cob]

The red algae (MacroFeast I'm guessing) in a bottle is probably gracilaria (aka Ogo). Keep using that. For some reason most of the online sources for bulk gracillaria aren't shipping right now. ORA has 1/2lb bags of it (which is alot). Maybe one of the LFS can get it for you, should work out alot cheaper than the bottle.

Ok. It's actually FuzzyPhytes.

http://reefnutrition.com/fuzzyphytes/index.htm

and yes the bottle is a bit expensive!

[Richard]

Ah, they have a new one. I hadn't seen that.

Oh, on the temp. I've never read anything that would explain why 83 degrees would help but some people say it has helped. Other people say cooling them down to 76 helps so who knows. My tank runs at 82 normally so it shouldn't hurt.

[Mr Cob]

Ah, they have a new one. I hadn't seen that.

Oh, on the temp. I've never read anything that would explain why 83 degrees would help but some people say it has helped. My tank runs at 82 normally so it shouldn't hurt.

I'm normally at 79 and have no idea if raising it will do anything at all other than stress my corals. Just remember reading a few threads on here about people doing it. I thought it would help. Guess we will see...since it's at 83 now I don't want to stress anybody out by lowering it back so soon.

Thanks for your help and info Richard, I appreciate it.

[tropicana]

I personnally went through Ick with BOTH my tangs as well, A Yellow Tang, and a Purple Tang. I just feed half-full sheet of Nori, aka SushiNori at HEB. Make sure the Nori is Unseasoned all natural. You can soak it in garlic juice a couple times to get him to eat it constantly. Just, make sure that you keep it in the tank at all times so he can constantly graze it and keep a fat belly. Other thing to do is have a Great UV light running through your return or cycling your water through it somehow. The UV will kill the bacteria as it passes through it and can help control it better once the fish dont have it again. Thats just my advice since I havent seen it again once both were rid of ick.

[tropicana]

I'm normally at 79 and have no idea if raising it will do anything at all other than stress my corals. Just remember reading a few threads on here about people doing it. I thought it would help. Guess we will see...since it's at 83 now I don't want to stress anybody out by lowering it back so soon.

Thanks for your help and info Richard, I appreciate it.

The only thing that raising the Temps does is makes the ICK's cycling time go faster. It will cycle and go away faster. But that means if its happier it will get thicker then go away and most likely come back again.... I would just leave the temps and just keep them well fed. I even had a Lionfish that had Ick and it went away with a Freshwater Dip then fed him like crazy and he never had it again either.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks for everyone's help. My powder blue is gone now. Really upset about this one because he was such an awesome fish. All of my other fish seem fine.

I do not think the ich killed him because he only had it for two days. I found him lodged between two rocks and I think that the ich irritated him and as he was trying to scratch the parasites away and he got stuck and possibly punctured his ribs or something trying to free himself.

He did not have any wounds though and really didn't look that bad...he wasn't breathing that heavy with the ich either.

Little confused as to what happened to him and really bummed out. :confused:

[Mr Cob]

Any more comments/opinions/experiences relating to the link I posted in the first post???

[Kristy]

Sorry about the powder blue. They are notorious for subcumbing to ick. Just try to keep feeding the heck out of anything with ick, sometimes it works, sometimes not.
Sucks to have stuff die!

[drgnbttrfly]

:bighug: so sorry sug

[Bill S]

As noted, when it goes away, people always look to what they did, to get rid of it - and it might have been something else, or nothing. I've been in the hobby for over 35 years. Here are MY experiences:

The article is pretty much right on, based on my experiences.

I DON'T quarantine. Basically because it's pretty much SO difficult to do, and stressful on the fish. Logistically, it's very, very difficult to do.

I also don't FW dip, put chemicals in my tank, raise or lower the temp or salinity, or use UV. I HAVE a UV sterilizer, but don't use it because it will never get ALL of the parasites - and only affects the free floating ones. Why bother?

When I have an occasional outbreak of Ich, I just make sure the water is good, and they are well fed. It's ALWAYS because of stress from a new introduction, or a tank rearrangement.

[Mr Cob]

Thanks Bill for the response. Time and experience brings wisdom.

I really do hate messing with chemicals and adjusting temp etc...

I also do not quarantine my fish because I have always felt that it stresses the fish and the best place for them is my established tank that I have spent tons of money on to resemble the ocean in a small way versus a small 20gallon quarantine tank with a power filter and heater.

I think next time the only thing I will do differently is not touch the temp. When I pulled him out I also rearranged some of the rock work to allow for some more open areas versus all of my tight fitting caves that he got stuck in.