liverock made of foam??

[joelb]

does anyone do this? is it something i can do myself? what kind of equipment is needed? anyone know of any links to some helpful info? thanks for looking.

[captexas]

It's not really live rock and it doesn't perform the same function as live rock. If you only want it to look like rock, then it works. There are a few people here who have done it with Mike aka Texreefer being the most experienced at it. He has a tank build thread going in the general reefkeeping forum here:

http://www.maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40266

This is his second tank using the foam and he always does a great job. If you do a search here on Maast, there are several other threads on foam use as well.

[ErikH]

I have a large rock that is covered in foam. I made some large sweeping arches using plastic tubing and on the end of the base rock, I incorporated an upside down bill miller's tea bucket for an eel cave. :) It's sitting in my storage unit sine I don't have a large enough tank for it, lol. I was planning on using a hand sander to smooth the foam out, and then do a light coat of great stuff, then cover it with sand to give it texture. It has cured so long that the color looks just like macaroni. :)

[Mr Cob]

[quote=captexas;605677]It's not really live rock and it doesn't perform the same function as live rock. quote]

Correct it's not really live rock however it can provide similar functions as live rock. For one it increases the surface area in which coraline algae will grow on. Secondly when done correctly it increase the area in which to grow pods.

I built a foam structure that supports my entire rockscape and within 2 months it is already loaded with coraline growth and pods are breeding everywhere in it. I used a technique that made my foam coarse with lots of little crevises for the pods.

Here's some steps that I took in creating mine...

1) Built a structure out of pvc pipes, zip ties and egg crate.
2) Coated the structure lightly with Great Stuff foam to make it resemble the shape of rocks.
3) Zip tied base rock to the structure to add weight and depth.
4) Painted structure with Krylon black spray paint to take away the white color and help seal structure.
5) Sprayed black pond foam over the entire structure and stressed it after a few minutes. Foam does not act well to being spread around but when you do it will create many crevises and add tecture to the structure and gives an awesome realistic look when it drys. This process is also very wasteful considering the pond black foam cans run $10-$15 a piece. Was worth it for me though.
6) Coated everything with resin
7) While resin was wet I sprinkled aragonite over the entire surface area. (this really stimulates the coraline growth).

After two weeks I placed the entire structure in my green pond (no fish) for a week then added it to my tank with live rock sorrounding structure. It's been there for two months and I love it. Tons of caves and small crevises.

My biggest problem was floating but it was quickly fixed by adding more base rock to it.

Hope this helps. I was inspired by TexReefers use of foam. He may be able to chime in and give better details. All of my steps are not nescessary such as resin or even the krylon paint....but it works for me.

[john C]

Joe Go To Wolf Pick The Pieces Of Dry Rock Then Set Up Outside Use The Foam To Join All So Use Foam Where You Think Your Corals Will Sit For Fraging Purpose Later Go From There Leave Some Places To Put Live Rock To Seed

[subsailor]

I know its not foam but another alternative some people swear by is homeade rocks, there is a lot of infor on the GARF website http://www.garf.org/.

[ErikH]

I have a bunch of agro rocks, and they are superb. :)

[subsailor]

Yeah I have been wanting to try to make some, but it seems like I have been in abundance of live rock dirt cheap lately so no need, however I might try soon just for the hell of it.

[Mr Cob]

I have a bunch of agro rocks, and they are superb. :)

Erik's rocks to me are better than live rock once seeded of course. They look hellah sweet!

[captexas]

Yes, it allows for room to grow coraline algae, but that is not the main purpose of using "live rock". All foam provides is a solid object to take up space in the tank and create a surface for other things to grow on or be placed on. It is not "live" and does not aid in the filtration of the tank water as "live rock" does. That was my point to the original poster, to not think that by using foam that he would get the same benefits of using real live rock.

[Mr Cob]

Yes, it allows for room to grow coraline algae, but that is not the main purpose of using "live rock". All foam provides is a solid object to take up space in the tank and create a surface for other things to grow on or be placed on. It is not "live" and does not aid in the filtration of the tank water as "live rock" does. That was my point to the original poster, to not think that by using foam that he would get the same benefits of using real live rock.

Well it's the same concept as adding dead rock...it will eventually become live and many things will occupy it's space making it live foam with similar benefits as live rock. If your foam is coarse as mine is with lots of crevices and little caves it will become "live" eventually if seeded with actual live rock...??? Right?

[JimD]

Kind of, I guess, the main difference is that real live rock is super porous, it can process much more bacteria becaous of its porousity, foam only has a cerain amount of porousity on the surface because the 'bubbles are connected., as opposed to live rock which is porous all the way through if that makes sense.

[Mr Cob]

Kind of, I guess, the main difference is that real live rock is super porous, it can process much more bacteria becaous of its porousity, foam only has a cerain amount of porousity on the surface because the 'bubbles are connected., as opposed to live rock which is porous all the way through if that makes sense.

Yep I get what captexas is saying. Also understand what you are saying.

No substitute for real tonga....florida...fiji...etc...live rock.

How ever, anything that is porous has the potential to become live filtration but of course no substitute for the real deal.

Maybe I was just trying to prove a point that cap was incorrect to say that foam is only ornamental and can not provide any benefit in filtration.

All good.

[tropicana]

Yep I get what captexas is saying. Also understand what you are saying.

No substitute for real tonga....florida...fiji...etc...live rock.

How ever, anything that is porous has the potential to become live filtration but of course no substitute for the real deal.

Maybe I was just trying to prove a point that cap was incorrect to say that foam is only ornamental and can not provide any benefit in filtration.

All good.

Why not spray foam over those semi-hard foam blocks that are super pourous.... leaving a few areas for the bacteria to enter, once there they will spread and be a super-bacterial abode. Makes sense or no? Similar to below:

http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK

[joelb]

thank you for all your input! i love it. the foam is not for filtration or rock supplementation as i will have plenty of live rock in the sump area, the foam is for real estate for polyps to spread on in a structured manner. thank you all.

[captexas]

Why not spray foam over those semi-hard foam blocks that are super pourous.... leaving a few areas for the bacteria to enter, once there they will spread and be a super-bacterial abode. Makes sense or no? Similar to below:

http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK


Umm . . .I think some of you are forgetting what this Great Stuff Foam is originally used for - as a sealant! It is used on homes and other placed to seal out air and water. Just because you use it in a fish tank doesn't mean it stops doing what it was designed to do. It may have what looks like some small holes on the surface, but those are just like air bubble indentations. Once it dries/cures, it is not pourous to allow air/water to move through it.

[Texreefer]

Well it's the same concept as adding dead rock...it will eventually become live and many things will occupy it's space making it live foam with similar benefits as live rock. If your foam is coarse as mine is with lots of crevices and little caves it will become "live" eventually if seeded with actual live rock...??? Right?

Wrong,, Bacteria will only populate the surface,, this is a closed cell foam. nothing gets in.. It will not ever act like live rock no matter how long it is in the tank.. but it does look really cool:)

[LoneStar]

Agree with Mike. Makes a great back drop/overflow cover but I would still use live rock to make islands or reef structures on the main floor of the tank.

[subsailor]

We should do a agro workshop after one of the meetings, that would be pretty sweet.

[Mr Cob]

Wrong,, Bacteria will only populate the surface,, this is a closed cell foam. nothing gets in.. It will not ever act like live rock no matter how long it is in the tank.. but it does look really cool:)

Ok...I said .....

"If your foam is coarse as mine is with lots of crevices and little caves it will become "live" eventually if seeded with actual live rock...??? Right?

Note: I distressed my black pond foam and the effect was thousands of crevises similar to what you see on actual live rock.

So, are you telling me that those crevises...very tiny ittty bitty little crevises will not populate with bacteria?

That doesn't make sense. I agree with you about the purpose of the foam as a sealant and that stuff will only grow on the surface....but I did not defend the regular surface foam, I defended my distressed pond foam with thousands of crevises.

I'm also only replying further as to find an answer and not actually flame a thread, subject or person.

I'm very curious now wether my pourus foam is acting as a small filtration unit or if it is still in fact ornamental with no benefitial bacteria life despite the thousands of crevices in it.

Thanks.

[ErikH]

It will have beneficial bacteria, just not all the way through the rock like typical live rock. The closed cell design of the foam does not allow for it to house the bacteria all the way inside. Your other stuff probably does though, unless it uses closed cell foam.

[Mr Cob]

It will have beneficial bacteria, just not all the way through the rock like typical live rock. The closed cell design of the foam does not allow for it to house the bacteria all the way inside. Your other stuff probably does though, unless it uses closed cell foam.

The pond foam is also a sealant so I would assume that it uses closed cell foam.

Regardless, if I have tiny crevises in which water can pass through them in some way or another then the bacteria that grows in them will be benefitial and aide in filtration...?

So my structure does provide some type of filtration and it is not completely ornamental...?

Thanks,

[LoneStar]

We should do a agro workshop after one of the meetings, that would be pretty sweet.


We did that a few years back. I missed that meeting though, wish I could have went to it. Texreefer (Mike) did the demonstration. It may be worth doing again later on down the road if more people are interested.

[LoneStar]

So my structure does provide some type of filtration and it is not completely ornamental...?

Yes, Rob, it should provide some type of filtration. BUT it does not match the amount of filtration live rock can at the same volume. Most of the foam filtration is on the exterior (even the exterior of all the indentations). Live rock is pourous throughout, allowing a lot more area for bacteria to live on and thrive.

[Mr Cob]

Yes, Rob, it should provide some type of filtration. BUT it does not match the amount of filtration live rock can at the same volume. Most of the foam filtration is on the exterior (even the exterior of all the indentations). Live rock is pourous throughout, allowing a lot more area for bacteria to live on and thrive.

Thanks for the clarification from all of you, TexReefer, Lonestar, Scorpino, CapTexas, JimD etc....

I think the demo would be cool and I'd be interested in it further down the road.

[joelb]

count me in also! thanks for all the advice my friends