Soft Water

[addboy]

Does anyone know what effect a water softener has on RO/DI water. I run my RO/DI off of my watersoftener, which hasn't been working for the longest time. We just got it fixed and it is producing really soft water and I was wondering if that is good or bad for a reef??? Anyone???

[RayAllen]

Im not sure, but have to use it anyways. My wife and I spent $4500-5000 or so on a water refining system which covers the entire house and exterior faucets as well. We now have great water for bathing, cooking, washing, drinking etc, but im not sure what this does to my aquarium. All the contaminants/toxins are gone, but my water is to soft(lower PH) now. So with that said I have to raise my ph via chemicals or substrate.

[addboy]

PH !!!....Good to know. Thanks, I will keep an eye on it.

[caferacermike]

I'm not to sure but have this to add. I once took a water sample from a tank to Aquatek for a monthly test. After swirling it around with a few chemicals the guy doing the test looked right at me and told me I have a water softener. We did at the time. I asked him what that was supposed to mean, mentioning it to me, and he did not have a real answer. He implied it was bad but would not commit to anything.

[bigmoe21]

does it have to do anything with silica? i heard this once.. im wondering too
I'm not to sure but have this to add. I once took a water sample from a tank to Aquatek for a monthly test. After swirling it around with a few chemicals the guy doing the test looked right at me and told me I have a water softener. We did at the time. I asked him what that was supposed to mean, mentioning it to me, and he did not have a real answer. He implied it was bad but would not commit to anything.

[RayAllen]

Soft water isnt a bad thing. Soft water will have chlorine removed as well as many metals and contaminants. People with South/central American tanks even brakish water tanks strive to have soft water because thats what is in South/central america. Hard water has a higher Alk level simply meaning more metals and solids are preasent in the water, not to mention City water has many other contimanants in its extremely hard water. Soft water is either Neutral meaning nothing is present or acidic. So for those aquarist like myself with a home water refining system or just a plain softner simply have to introduce what our salt water aquariums need to thrive. I can use straight tap water because my water contains no chlorine or harmful contimants, but will need chemicals to raise certain levels which I prefer to not knowing whats in my water. I basically have a huge RO/DI system on my entire house with a softner.

[MissT]

Every time you buy a new bucket of salt, run a full line test (or bring it up to the store), and check it's buffering capacity. You'll know if/how much buffer you need to add for that bucket.
FWIW, pure RO/DI water will not usually register a true pH, KH or GH value, and salts that are made to be used with RO seem to take that into account and put more buffer in the salt mix.

[RayAllen]

Great Advice MissT

[addboy]

Wow!!...Okay. What do you know about regular Tropic Marin??

[captexas]

I know the fancy water systems have DI tanks on them and some of the other water softeners have actual water sediment filters on them that have to be replaced every so often. BUT, I thought basic water softeners didn't actually remove anything, they just changed some ions into different ions or changed their charge.

Also, there are a few products on the market to add back certain elements to RO and softened water for aquarium use.

[RayAllen]

My wife had to have a system on the house for her skin and hair, HAD TO HAVE, lol. So we got one a little after the house construction was complete. It is not a water softner, I have a water refining system that happens to also soften the water. This is my exact system

http://www.aquativa.com/aquativa_spectra_twin_with_chlorigon.htm
http://www.aquativa.com/aquativa_prism_with_bioguard.htm

It almost makes my water to clean, but Ive used this water with success on a couple of aquariums now without any ill effects. My previous biocube did amazing using this water with few water changes. Besides its on the entire house so im stuck like chuck.

[RayAllen]

Wow!!...Okay. What do you know about regular Tropic Marin??

Ive never seen this salt in stores, but im curious.

http://www.tropicmarin-usa.com/Tmusa/index.html

[MissT]

From what I understand, and have heard, TM has been a bit unstable lately as far as Ca, Mg and PO4 go... now that said, TM has been a lot of people's favorites for quite a while and there are a lot of people that swear by it. I used TM regular premixed from RCA for my smaller tanks, but after starting up the 115 I've started mixing my own using Red Sea Coral Pro, and I am really liking it.
I know there are several people around here (TexReefer included) who are using Reef Crystals with a lot of success, and with so many people using so many different salts yet still having great luck and success, it's really difficult to pick a salt brand.
Here's why I chose RS Pro:
-cheaper than TM
-easy to get
I do have to mix my batch at least 24 hours before my WC, which is a pain for some people, but doesn't bother me...
I don't know if this helps or further confuses the subject but most of this is based on unprofessional research of my own and other people's experiences.

[RayAllen]

Sweet thanks for the feed back on that MissT. I was thinking of going ReefCrystal myself where as before I was using Instant Ocean which is made by the same company as Reefcrystal just not as good for reefs ive come to find out. I need a higher quality salt to help replace some things taken out by my water system.

[MissT]

I know someone running a reef tank successfully on IO, but that was with a kalk stirrer, Ca Reactor with Mag pellets, the equipment list goes on and on... he swore that IO was the best baseline for the amount of supplementation he wanted to do

Another great example of what works for someone in their tank might be terrible for me in mine... What a wonderfully wicked hobby we've gotten ourselves into! :bigsmile:

[addboy]

Oh...I was just curious as to the buffer capacity of Tropic Marin...I used to use Reef Crystals....great salt for reefs....not to consistent for me though....just visible differences every water change. The Tropic Marin seems to be very consistent and the coral are very happy (Lots more polyp extension.....LOTS!!)..I still buff and calcify..but this salt is really awesome in my book....especially for small tanks.

[Entropy]

I have a softener on the house, but my RO unit pulls water from before the softener. I am not sure how much a diffference it makes, but the basic difference (as I understand it) is that a softener exchanges calcium and magnesium for sodium. Calcium and magnesium will both clog your RO membrane faster so it is better to soften the water first, BUT sodium is harder for the RO membrane to stop (more gets by) so your final TDS number (or feed to the DI if you have one) is bigger with soft water. So it looks like you get to choose between your RO membrane clogging sooner or your DI being exhausted sooner. Since the DI is reusable in some cases, and cheaper in all cases it is probably best to use the soft water. I don't have DI so for me I run it before the softener to get a lower TDS number.

[RayAllen]

I have a softener on the house, but my RO unit pulls water from before the softener. I am not sure how much a diffference it makes, but the basic difference (as I understand it) is that a softener exchanges calcium and magnesium for sodium. Calcium and magnesium will both clog your RO membrane faster so it is better to soften the water first, BUT sodium is harder for the RO membrane to stop (more gets by) so your final TDS number (or feed to the DI if you have one) is bigger with soft water. So it looks like you get to choose between your RO membrane clogging sooner or your DI being exhausted sooner. Since the DI is reusable in some cases, and cheaper in all cases it is probably best to use the soft water. I don't have DI so for me I run it before the softener to get a lower TDS number.

Great explanation, thanks