cuttles and clams

[hobogato]

as already mentioned in my clam tank photography thread, i have decided to house cuttlefish in the clam tank instead of fish. for those who havent seen it, here is the clam tank from the outside:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/240/DSC01988.jpg

it is plumbed into the sump/fuge of my 240 gallon sps display tank

here it is from the top after adding some rock and macro algae in preparation for the cuttles
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02006.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02007.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02008.jpg

here are some live shore shrimp that David brought me from the coast Sunday
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02009.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02010.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02013.jpg

[subsailor]

That just looks insane, I just got done looking at it on RC

[hobogato]

last night, i built this acrylic tank and cabinet (havent finished the molding yet) to house the live shrimp i will be keeping to feed them. it will be plumbed into the sump/fuge on christy's 180 gallon lps display.
tank - it is 16"x16"x16" or about 18 gallons.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02016.jpg
installed in cabinet
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02018.jpg
the cuttles arrived this morning - one male and one female, 3.5 months old
here they are floating
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02019.jpg
here they are just after release - sorry for the pic quality, only actincs on here
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02020.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02021.jpg
here is the more active one this afternoon, the other one is hiding under a rock ledge
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/PDRM3500.jpg
here is a quick video
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/th_Image003.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/?action=view&current=Image003.flv)

[SABOB]

That is too cool......Good luck with this endeavor.Keep us updated on getting them to eat and more and more pics!!!!!!!

[subsailor]

nice pics and video makes me want some....

[MissT]

WOW!
Very cool, Ace! Good luck, those guys have always seemed like a ton of fun! Keep us posted, and keep the pictures coming!!!

[greenmako]

VERY Cool!!!!!

[sharkboy]

Nice job Ace! By the way, what is the survival rate of the live shrimp? How does this affect the main tank?

[Paul28]

Dang those things are cool looking:hypnotyized:

[SoLiD]

That's just too cool. I hope they eat the heck out of those shrimp. :bigsmile:

-David

[RayAllen]

Friggin Sweet! Great Job Ace.

[cpreefguy]

A UFO!!!
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02021.jpg

[cpreefguy]

JK! Awesome Ace!

[aprilmayjune]

A UFO!!!


Ha thats what I was thinking as I watched the video. They look like little hovering space ships. Now they just need little lasers!

[cpreefguy]

Ha thats what I was thinking as I watched the video. They look like little hovering space ships. Now they just need little lasers!

I guess it would be a USO :bigsmile:

[tropicana]

Thats pretty cool ace, Good Luck. My next endeaver is to have a 4ft wide cylinder standing upright with Jellyfish. Thats going to be my big project one of these days.

[coraline79]

wow! I want some. Those are crazy, the way they move!

[J Use]

Where did you order the cuttles from and what species are they?

[hobogato]

they are captive laid/hatched Sepia bandensis and i got them from a member of tonmo.com

they are starting to get comfortable in the tank now, caught one of em playing in the flow of the powerhead :)

[cpreefguy]

Is the shy one out and about yet?

[ErikH]

Man the anticipation is getting to me!.! I am counting down the days! :)

[hobogato]

Is the shy one out and about yet?

not as active as the other one, but cruising around some.

[coraline79]

they are captive laid/hatched Sepia bandensis and i got them from a member of tonmo.com

they are starting to get comfortable in the tank now, caught one of em playing in the flow of the powerhead :)

How did you get them? I was researching them on the web, and they don't seem to let enyone get any unless it is for university research or something.

[hobogato]

go to tonmo.com, there are several members there selling them.

[Kristy]

Very cool!

[crabman]

that is so cool!

[apedroza]

Awesome as usual Ace!!! Are you gonna try breeding??

[hobogato]

im hoping they will do it themselves, i dont think i am comfortable trying to help :lauging: :p


Awesome as usual Ace!!! Are you gonna try breeding??

[jtrux]

That is really cool, how big is the tank they're in? How much do those things cost?

[hobogato]

they are in approximately 50 gallons, but that is tied into the 240 gallon and sump for a total water volume around 400 gallons.

they arent cheap, hatchlings run about $40, but these were $75 each because they are about 3 months old and eating frozen food as well as live.

[J Use]

that's awesome. those are exactly what i am looking for right now...do you know how i can get in contact with the person that sold them to you?

[hobogato]

i think i bought the last two he had, but there were several other people on that website (tonmo.com) that had eggs, hatchlings, and older captive hatched cuttles available.

[SoLiD]

Hey Ace, I'm just curious if they have started eating anything yet? If so, are they eating frozen or live?

[hobogato]

i have been putting live into the tank for them, but i havent actually seen them eat. havent tried frozen yet. i did get the shrimp/mangrove tank plumbed into christy's system, so the rest of the shrimp should be fine for a long time.

[ErikH]

Dewd, pics of the mangrove tank!!! Did you put in a recessed light? I'll bet those shrimp will live for a good while eating off those 'groves!

[brewercm]

We need some good video of them when they get comfortable enough to eat in front of you. That would be too cool.

[hobogato]

havent dont the light yet, or added the mangrove..... just wanted to get it plumbed in and get the shrimp in there so they wouldnt die. will probably finish it up this weekend. the shrimp love flake food, so they should stay alive until the cuttles or my other fish get em :)


Dewd, pics of the mangrove tank!!! Did you put in a recessed light? I'll bet those shrimp will live for a good while eating off those 'groves!

[jtrux]

That is cool, are they a typically shy animal? Do they do better when there isn't alot of traffic around the tank?

[VoodooMach]

You think you may move up to flamboyant cuttles in the future? For the skilled keeper, that's a holygrail animal... <please don't anyone start an ethics war, you will lose-I have none j/k>

[hobogato]

probably not because they get too large to house a pair in the clam tank and i dont keep the water cold enough - they do better with low to mid 70's

[VoodooMach]

probably not because they get too large to house a pair in the clam tank and i dont keep the water cold enough - they do better with low to mid 70's
Oh you're not running a chiller? I thought that was obligate no matter the species... From what I understood, the colder a ceph is kept, the longer it lives.

[hobogato]

i am running a chiller, but keep in mind this whole system houses fish and corals too. i keep my temp at 78 - 79.

[VoodooMach]

So corals don't do well below 78-79 degrees is what you're saying?

[hobogato]

most people try to stay above 77 for corals and fish.

[VoodooMach]

hmm maybe i should adjust my chiller, I keep my stuff around 76.5

[DBlackman]

Unless you are housing corals and/or inverts from 'Pacific' regions that require 'low temperature', i.e. jelly fish. Keeping a constant 76.5, using a chiller is close to the low end and not a good idea for metabolic rate; growth. Fish are more prone to health problems at lower temperatures.



hmm maybe i should adjust my chiller, I keep my stuff around 76.5

[hobogato]

caught them napping on top of the powerhead sponge, they not only take up the color of the black sponge, but also its texture as well...

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02023.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02028.jpg

[Triggerman]

pretty cool...

[Rychek]

Sweet. One day I'll have to try something like this... one day....

[SoLiD]

Ace, I was thinking..(dangerous, I know).. How exactly do you determine the sex of cuttlefish? If you plan on breeding them, I imagine that would be a good thing to know.

-David

[hobogato]

not sure david, i just trusted that the guy who sold them to me knew what he was doing and was honest. planning on researching it, just havent gotten around to it.

[tropicana]

Updates with Pictures please!

[labrown]

Updates with Pictures please!

Word!

[hobogato]

sorry, have been a bit busy lately.

no new pics at the moment, but conflicting news....

the cuttles are happy and eating, even when i am looking.

the clams on the other hand are all dead :( i added a new clam a couple of months ago and soon after all of my clams started to die. i have lost all, including the new one. not sure why, but they would be happy one day and dead the next. gonna keep the system clam free for several months, and then start looking for new clams.

[SoLiD]

Awe man, That stinks. :what_smile:

[labrown]

Aww, no kidding. Sorry about the loss. If you find out what got to them all, let us know!

Glad the cuttles are doing well.

[ErikH]

Ouch! Sorry to hear about that Ace.

[crabman]

i'm sorry to hear that last one didn't make it either, that was a really nice tank! i'm glad i got to see it while there was at least that one last one left before it went too. thanks again for helping me out the other day!

[SABOB]

Ace,Do you think the last clam you added caused all to die or something with the Cuttles?It might be just one of those things that never gets figured out.Good luck with the Cuttles,and clams if you try again.

[Richard]

Sorry to hear about the clams Ace. Here is a thread that might be the answer to what happened.

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=120947

[RayAllen]

Ace,Do you think the last clam you added caused all to die or something with the Cuttles?It might be just one of those things that never gets figured out.Good luck with the Cuttles,and clams if you try again.

My thoughts exactly. Kind of odd that they died after the cuttles where introduced.

[erebus]

Sorry to hear that Ace! I also lost my clam around the same time. I've had it over a year and it looked great the night before and when I came home from work it was dead.

[ErikH]

Not sure what the turnover is in that tank, but it is plumbed into Ace's main. It's possible that the turnover is not fast enough to handle the cuttles waste? Shot in the dark, but it is possible! :)

[hobogato]

actually lost the first clam about two weeks before the cuttles arrived, so i am pretty sure it was the added clam that brought something in. it was the only clam in the tank that was wild collected - probably from Vietnam. the tank is fed by a mag 7, so it has about 10X turnover per hour - should be plenty to keep it clean, not to mention all of the macro algae that is growing well in there too. i will stay clamless for a few months and then try again :)

[Richard]

Well the good news is that they said Perkinsus doesn't survive long term without a host. So if that was it then you should ok if you wait long enough. How long they didn't say.

Sounds like ALL vietnam clams have it and any clams that are exposed to the same water will get it. Not good.

[hobogato]

yeah, kind of a bummer. lost that nice ora derasa i got when you guys closed - it had more than doubled in size. also lost both of those maxima that i brought back from macna last year. it will be at least 6 months before i try again.

[hobogato]

well, it was very difficult not to jump in on that clams direct group order but i resisted.

the cuttles are now begging for food, and showing all kinds of displays. captured a bit on video last night, but before i got them eating, the camera battery died. i will try again tonight for that. what i have for you now is three terrible videos (they are only really active when the tank is dimly lit, so it is difficult for the camera to stay focused).

in this one, you can see them begging me to feed them. they actually come up to the top and stick their tentacles out of the water
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/th_Image003-1.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/?action=view&current=Image003-1.flv)
here is another one of that behavior
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/th_Image002.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/?action=view&current=Image002.flv)
here is the hunting display of waves of color
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/th_Image001.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/?action=view&current=Image001.flv)

[ErikH]

Soooooo cooooooooooooooool! Looks like on the last flick is trying to blend in with the macro.

[hobogato]

yeah, that one loves that stand of macro and is usually solid green. the other one usually stays under the rock so it is usually black and white and brown to blend with the sand and rock.

[erebus]

Very nice!

[labrown]

Super cool! Thanks for sharing! :thumbs_up:

[aquasport24]

I was wandring if the cuttles could have the same defense( black ink ) like squids do? b/c that maybe killing all the clams.

[hobogato]

they do, but i have only seen one of them do it once and it was a tiny amount. the clams started dying just before i got the cuttles.

[stoneroller]

Pretty cool, Ace. How often do you feed them?

[hobogato]

at least once a day.

[joelb]

those things are freaky looking! i love it. when you start getting clams again, can you get 2 of each of whichever ones you were going to get and i'll pay you for the 2nd one.:bigsmile: i think you do an awesome job picking clams. R.I.P. to your clams though.

[hobogato]

EGGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we have cuttle eggs! looks like about 40 - pics later once i figure out what to do :D

[Rychek]

Sweet!

[seamonkey2]

Ace put a tv by the tank, 40 egss, look like it may get out of hand :)

Jose

[BIGBIRD123]

gonna make it fun stickin' the hands in the tank...:bigsmile:

[ErikH]

AWESOME! I will by mine from you :)

[barderer]

I want one...

[hobogato]

miscounted, it is actually closer to 70 :hypnotyized: :what_smile:

[apedroza]

Cool Ace!!!

[Rychek]

Even better! How are the preparations (intellectual and physical) coming along?

[ErikH]

70 eggs is about 60 more than what I had expected. :p
You'd better get a "world's greatest dad" t-shirt out of this one, better yet "I had a clutch of 70 cuttlefish eggs and all I got was this stupid t-shirt"...

See you shortly...

[hobogato]

well, i have most of them in a net breeder, but i am going to have to get a couple more net breeders to separate them out more. also have to find a good source for lots of tiny live food or set up cultures. i had planned on culturing the food myself, but since i wasnt expecting eggs for another month or so, i have not set anything up yet.

still lots to do....


Even better! How are the preparations (intellectual and physical) coming along?

[hobogato]

here is a cruddy pic - actinic lights on only, so had to adjust the pic to get the detail

this is most of the eggs, they will be divided into two or three net breeders when i get some more net breeders
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02175.jpg

there is another rock that has about 8 more that will go into another net breeder

[ErikH]

Thasalottaeggs.....

[Bill S]

We'll be at the coast this coming weekend - let us know if there's something we can bring.

[SoLiD]

Give me a call Bill. I can tell you where Ace & I were catching his feeder shrimp. I will be bringing him some more this weekend but I'm sure you're welcome to bring more. :)

[hobogato]

first hatchling!!!!! took the eggs out in a glass bowl of water to backlight them to make sure they are fertile - many are.....

one little cuttle must have been in the middle of the clutch

here it is
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02176.jpg

now i am in a bit of a pickle - these are about a month before i thought they would even have eggs..... gotto find some live amphipods and mysis to feed these guys soon.

[greenmako]

would tiger pods work? I know a few pet stores are carrying them.

[DrMark]

Very exciting stuff, Ace, hope it works out.
The reef nutrition tiger pods Brian refeered to may work well, but expensive.
mark

[hobogato]

well, over on tonmo.com, an expert at this said that this one probably wont make it because it is still attached to the yolksac :( even tho it hatched a little early, it is almost .5" long. i think some of the smaller shrimp we collect down there at the coast may be small enough so i am gonna work on that as a possible solution.

copapods are generally thought to be too small for em.

[SoLiD]

We could gather drift algae from the jetties. They are usually loaded with amphipods. You could also hatch out brine shrimp. I can give you some if you don't any.

[SoLiD]

I can send brine shrimp eggs back with Bill if he is still coming down here.

-David

[hobogato]

i have brine shrimp eggs, thanks. i may come down saturday to see what i can catch in the way of tiny shrimp and amphipods (as you suggested) in the drift

[SoLiD]

They usually hide in half dead brown feathery like ugly drift algae (not really in sargassum). I see more at night. At the jetties... Go figure.

[Bill S]

Yes, we WILL be down.

Ace, if any will work, you are welcome to comb my fuges for critters. Ace, I can bring back anything David catches, and David, Ace told me where his/your "spot" is. My cell is 210.663.8079. If you are over on the CC side of the world, drop by for a beer. Ace, if you need a place to stay, we have one. Kids are welcome too.

[SoLiD]

Thanks Bill. I will make a note of it.

BTW Ace, is your mother in law is back in town?

[hobogato]

she is david, im sorry i thought she would have already brought your buckets to ya.

[SoLiD]

No worries.

[hobogato]

sad morning.

woke today to a cloudy tank and both cuttlefish are dead. not sure if the eggs are ok or not.

found redbugs in my main tank yesterday, so i took the cuttle tank off line to make sure the treatment didnt get in there. it was off of the main system for about 12 hours, but it has two powerheads in it for circulation. also did it at night so heat wasnt an issue. only thing i can think is i killed some aptasia (that is what i was doing when i noticed the redbugs) and got my pH a little out of whack for about an hour - fixed it with vinegar. everything was stable before i took the cuttle tank off line.

i changed a little more than half of the water in the cuttle tank this morning and then another 30 gallons from the main tank before getting the cuttle tank back online.

sometimes this hobby does not make me happy.

[Kristy]

Ace, that totally sucks! The really bad part is you are going to be kicking yourself and you will probably never really know what it was.

Hope the eggs make it. -Mike (& Kristy)

[captexas]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your cuttlefish Ace.

[aquasport24]

Man that's sucks, they were doing so well. You put so much effort in it and then this happened , but if i know you can bounce back from it.

[greenmako]

sorry to hear Ace

[ismvel]

Man, sorry to hear about it....the cuttle tank was a good idea....hopefully the eggs pull through.

[Rychek]

Man, sorry to hear about it....the cuttle tank was a good idea....hopefully the eggs pull through.

Amen.

[hobogato]

what a rollercoaster this is gonna be....

one new hatchling - no yolksac attacked and it is swimming a bit..... hopefully it will make it.

took out some of the other eggs in a glass bowl of water to backlight them to check on them and many of them look like they are about ready to hatch. some of the babies inside even responded to the light a bit (i dont think they like it).

the plan is to keep two or three of these and trade a couple to someone else with some captive hatched ones so i will have a couple of breeding pair in the near future.

meanwhile, i will have to work on setting up a mysis hatchery and getting some live artemia going as well.

[cpreefguy]

Sounds like a good summer project! :D
Keep us updated

[labrown]

Best of luck on the second generation.

[longhorna95]

wow good luck! this is by far my favorite thread!

[ErikH]

Oh man, I just read this! That really stinks..... Good luck with the babies, hopefully I can get the tank up and running properly here soon. If anyone can raise these, it's you!

[LoneStar]

Good luck with the hatchlings Ace

[reeferRob]

I missed this thread back in april when you started it, AWESOME job! Good Luck with the youngins!


Rob

[hobogato]

what a day!!!! came home with this massive T. squamosa to turn my glorified fuge back into a clam tank.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02359.jpg
while cleaning out the old cuttle eggs in the netbreeders (put it off until now because it was so depressing), something incredible happened...... ONE baby hatched and lived in the last 3 days since the last time i sadly checked the deteriorating eggs. the only other two babies that hatched way too early and didnt make it.

so we have one surviving baby out of over 70 eggs. i am so happy bc i didnt think any of them would hatch and make it. now the quest for food begins bc i did not get any live food cultures set up yet.

here are a few pics, that is a 2 shot shot glass btw to give you an idea of how small it is
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02358.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02356.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02355.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02357.jpg

[dustint21]

Holy crap that is awesome!!!! Good luck with new addition, I hope he/she can pull thru!!!!

[aquasport24]

Man, that is so cool, hope it will grow big. .....So you don't need that clam anymore right?...hehehehe..

[Rychek]

Awesome! Good luck with the lil guy!

[hobogato]

well, he is functional! we brought back about 1500 tiny shore shrimp from the coast and after a short detox period in clean tank water, we threw in about 8 of the smallest ones. these shrimp were barely bigger than an amphipod. before the first shrimp made it to the bottom of the netbreeder, he scarfed it up :D he is still hunting and eating as i type.....

[clone]

man that alone pays off for this hobby

[klondike4001]

Sorry about that loss, but cuddos on one surviving.

[Dominican]

This is the best thread ever! Thanks for sharing, Ace! :)

[ErikH]

Aww shucks, looks like I am going to have to risk getting them shipped in this texas heat... grats on the baby making it thus far.

[hobogato]

if you can wait about 3 months, there may be several people who will share shipping with you including me......

[hobogato]

here is the little cuttle nursery until it is big enough for the clam tank - probably around 3 months old. you cant see it because it is hovering under the red dragon's breath
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/PDRM3646.jpg
here are the shrimp we brought home today - the larges ones are about 1/2 inch except for the four or five big ones that i will be taking to the stone fish in my classroom tomorrow
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/PDRM3647.jpg
we fill the tank with plastic gutter screen to give them something to hold on to because they will swim themselves to death if they cant rest by holding something. also, not pictured, we have an air stone in here to make sure there is plenty of oxygen - even tho it is plumbed into a 180 gallon lps tank with a 75 gallon sump.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/PDRM3648.jpg

[ErikH]

I like that setup! :bigsmile:

[hobogato]

quick update, this will be the last time i take pics of him/her in a shot glass as temperament is a little more jumpy now. still doing great....
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02384.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02387.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/clamsncuttles/DSC02388.jpg

[seamonkey2]

hurray for the little one, go baby go!!!

man I bet you jumped of joy and surprise when you saw the baby.

good for you

Jose

[hobogato]

well, the baby disappeared at 1 month old. i held out hope that it somehow escaped the netbreeder into the tank, but there are no signs of him.....

i will try again in a few months with some new 3 month olds (when they are available)

unfortunately, i lost all of my clams to perkinsus. i left the tank for over six months without clams, and now i am starting to add them again.

So far I have two large T. squamosa – one is about 7” and the other is about 11”
Little one
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/240/DSC02757.jpg
Big one
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/240/DSC02758.jpg
Together
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c329/hobogato/240/DSC02759.jpg

[J_G]

Ace - Sorry to hear about your clam loss. With that disease does tissue just fade away or something? Ive never heard of that disease..but my gosh.

[seatrueblue]

What does perkinsus look like? Nice new clams..I remember seeing pictures of this tank on RC.