Here we go again...

[labrown]

We did another water change, about 30 gallons in a 55 gallon tank, and when we put the last 10 gallons in, the two firefish died, and now my yellow tang is acting weird, not swimming much, struggling to breathe it seems. But I can't imagine there isn't enough O2 in the water because the water was agitated a lot when we added the new water. My levels are all fine, ammonia and nitrite at 0, nitrate at a very reasonable level, and pH, spec gravity and temp are all fine. I can't figure out what is going on. Last water change we lost our two cleaner shrimp. I am totally at a loss, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

Specs, 55 gal FOWLR, about 35 lbs liverock ( l know we need more) Two false perc clowns, small yellow tang, many snails and a pencil urchin.

[Bill S]

What is a "reasonable" level?

What are you measuring your salinity with?

Where are you getting your water from?

What salt are you using?

I can tell you, I can do a 5 gallon change on our nano, which really holds about 9 gallons. NOTHING is affected by it...

[labrown]

What is a "reasonable" level?
ph, 8.2
Ammonia, 0
Nitrite, 0
Nitrate, less than 20

What are you measuring your salinity with?
Two separate hydrometers, and I've had them checked to make sure they are accurate

Where are you getting your water from?
The tap, then adding essential elements

What salt are you using?
Instant Ocean

[labrown]

Both my yellow tang and my hawkfish seem to be breathing heavily too.

[Bill S]

Well, you kind of have me stumped. So, here we go:

Your hydrometers - are they the "swinging arm" type, or the floating kind with a long thin top of glass. If they are swinging arms, please throw them away.

Tap water: Please. Just use RO/DI water. Yeah, I've used tap water for years - about 30 years. 5 years now with RO/DI and MUCH better results. Sometimes tap water is just fine, sometimes it isn't. With BIG water changes, it just isn't worth the risk. Sometimes chlorine dissapates, sometimes it doesn't. RO/DI water is cheap. Fish/inverts aren't.

[labrown]

I have heard of RO/DI water but don't really know what it is...

Oh, and both of my hydrometers are of the swinging arm type, but I've never seen a different type.

[C.Mydas]

My first thought was chlorine. You can smell the chlorine in our tap water (Pflugerville). Chlorine takes 24 hours to dissapate out of water. Switch to RO/DI, like Bill recommended.

[opium89]

Tap? Egads man. My tap water isn't even suitable for drinking. I hope you're at least using a dechlorinator. You've more than likely poisoned them.

[labrown]

Tap? Egads man. My tap water isn't even suitable for drinking. I hope you're at least using a dechlorinator. You've more than likely poisoned them.
For at least 4 months I used the exact same tap water and never had any problems with it. I've had the same fish for about 6 months now and only within the last month have I been having problems with it.

[labrown]

Chlorine takes 24 hours to dissapate out of water.

Very interesting fact. I am sure I will switch, once I figure out what RO/DI is...

[C.Mydas]

What is RO/DI-
Here is some good info to dig through

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/rodiwaterfilters/RO_DI_and_Other_Water_Filters_Information.htm

[Bill S]

You can buy it from your LFS, I've heard Walmart sells it??? and the "windmill" water stores in various parking lots. It's cheap.

You can also install your own system. Try the folks at our sponsor, Buckeye Field Supply.

[labrown]

Do I have to add salt to RO/DI water?

[bigmoe21]

:wink_smile: yes you are just replacing tap with it..i saw on the news san antonio is going to instill ro water so no more tap it'll be ro.
Do I have to add salt to RO/DI water?

[opium89]

Consider yourself lucky you got away with it as long as you did. There's a lot of things that can change your tap parameters and it's obvious that *something* has indeed changed in either your source water or your process since that time. Do some reading on RO systems and get yourself one soon. At very least, start dragging it home from your local HEB until you can get one installed.


For at least 4 months I used the exact same tap water and never had any problems with it. I've had the same fish for about 6 months now and only within the last month have I been having problems with it.

[beerguy]

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you do NEED to use dechlorinator i.e. prime. If you dont, you can easily kill everything. Especially if your changing that large of an amount. Is that the largest water change you've ever done? I use tap, I add prime and pour it in minutes after filling my bucket for topoff. Ive never had any problems, except for hella algae in my reef tanks.

[labrown]

Thank you all for the great and knowledgeable replies. I think there has to be a large amount of chlorine in our water. I can't imagine anything else causing this. We lost our yellow tang just a little while ago, and I think the hawkfish isn't going to make it through the night either. Our false perc clowns don't seem to be doing too bad, but only time will tell. Yes this is the largest water change we have done. Our nitrates were high so we needed a large water change. And we put a sump under our tank today and had to move the tank/stand, so we had to take out at least that much water to move it. Fortunately we did get the 20 gal long tank under our display in the stand, and I did get my euroreef rs 80 up and running tonight in the sump, but so far it is only running down there and we haven't finished the pump/overflow system yet to link the two tanks. Right now the sump has live sand and some dead rock and coral in it, with a uv light on overnight, alternating with the light in the main display. I'm trying to keep my temp more consistent that way. So good news is we got our sump half way put together. Bad news is, we are about to start from scratch with the display tank because of what happened tonight. I am quite discouraged, but I put a ton of work into the tank today and don't want to give up that easy. But it is going to be a while before we are able to restock the main tank. I am thinking that is a good thing for now. Maybe let it and the sump cycle a time or two before linking them up, and then go from there.

I guess no one can just start at A and end at Z without hitting a few S's, H's, I's, and T's along the way.

[DBlackman]

Here is my '2 cents' and experience with using 'Tap Water'.

Before switching to saltwater, I've kept rare and exotic fish that required high water quality demands. To perform weekly water changes, I had to age 'Tap' water for a minimum of 12 hours; SeaChem PRIME, air-stones, and a power-head in a 90gal barrow. The air-stones helped in oxygenation and dissipate chlorine.

A couple of years back, Austin had switched from using chlorine to chloramine-treated water. I had lost several fish, without notification from the city.

The problem with chlorine is that it is a known poison and the safety of drinking this poison over the longterm (i.e. your lifetime) is highly uncertain. Also, chlorine reacts with water-borne decaying organic matter like leaves, bark, sediment, etc. to create a family of chemicals called trihalomethanes and other highly toxic substances. Trihalomethanes, or THM's, include chemicals such as chloroform, bromoform and dichlorobromethane, all of which are extremely carcinogenic even in minute amounts.

Chloramine is another substance used now in many larger municipalities (i.e. Los Angeles). In systems where the level of chlorine is at the highest acceptable level but need still more disinfection, the utility will then add a chlorine/ammonia compound. Chloramine is represented as totally safe but with the..... "Disclaimer to not give chloramine-treated water to your animals or use it in your fish tanks (it kills fish)!"

If you are on a municipal system with chlorination or chloramine, theoretically you are protected against bacteria. However, if the level of chlorination isn't high enough from the municipal source to your tap, bacteria can re-infect the water anywhere along the distribution system. The piping system -- whether it's the mains or your house plumbing -- has bacterial growth in it happening all the time.

You may want to have your 'House' water tested for chlorine/chloramine levels!

Using RO filtered water alone gets rid of chlorine, THMs, chloriform, chloramines, cryptosporidium and giardia lamblia, cysts, fluoride, minerals, pesticides and toxic chemicals, heavy metals, MTBEs, and nitrates.

Another recommendation is stop by HomeDepot or Lowes to purchase a 'Whole House' filtration unit and a filter sleeve designed to remove chlorine, sediments, etc... as an alternative to a RO or RO/DI filtration unit/s.

Sorry to have gone overboard with the information. But,it helps!

[apedroza]

reverse osmosis/deionized water. It is a much cleaner water that is purified through several stages of filters (Sediment, carbon, RO, DI) You either have to purchase it from a lfs or buy your own unit to make it.

[labrown]

Thanks again everyone. I am for sure going to make the switch once I change my water again. The only survivors are my two false percs. We lost the hawkfish this morning.:at_wits_end:

I think I got the answers I needed, I suppose this thread can be closed. I am going to start a new thread for pointers on my new sump and where to go from here.