Vendors that frag from their stock?

[caferacermike]

I noticed a comment made in another thread but the thread was closed down so that ended that. The comment was along the lines of "oh come on fragging is part of the hobby".

Well it is my understanding that fragging is done amongst hobbyists and not at retailers. Buying in Austin I've never felt compelled to buy just a piece of a coral, we just buy them as is. I visited Fin Addict a long time ago and asked to buy a coral that was for sale without a price. I asked how much for the particular coral and I got the strangest reply ever, "well that depends upon how much of it you want". Say what? I asked how much is THE coral. SO I asked to buy the entire piece, the next reply was even stranger. It was along the lines of "we don't like to sell entire pieces, we choose to sell some of it and then keep a piece to grow out". OK sure but that was kinda weird compared to EVERY other shop I've ever bought coral at.

So here in ATX most retailers won't sell you a frag off of a colony. Sometimes you might get them to let go of a single head dangling off the side or if it's a really expensive piece they might sell you a little piece but the norm is you must buy the entire piece. I agree with that policy. I don't see why a vendor should risk fragging a colony and then put it back in their "not so clean" tanks possibly killing the remaining colony so you can have a small piece of it at a reduced price.

So my main question is WHO actually frags their corals for their customers? I've heard it might be common in SA but does not seem to be the norm in ATX. Just wondering what some of the shops policies might actually be for selling colonies.

*********As a disclaimer this is not meant to argue with the original poster in another thread. It was the comment that got me to thinking about my and others past buying experiences. So please "poster" don't feel the need to argue your point about your last shopping trip and in no way should you feel the need to defend the comment, it just got me to thinking and opened the door to further discussion about the hobby. (If any Mod feels otherwise about me asking about other shops selling practices please feel free to PM me snd discuss it with me as to whether this is an "acceptable" topic).****************

[JimD]

As long as it stays completely on topic, we'll see how it goes, one iota of potential argument and guess what??? I dont think you're gonna get too may of the retailers to reply but we'll see..

[aprilmayjune]

I know I've bought frags from Fin Addict as you already mentioned, and from Polly's Pet Shop. I would always frag for a customer so long as it was a reasonable request which it usually was. I knew how it was having a small tank and wanting that nice piece of coral that was way too big. And the smaller frags always sold quicker than the larger pieces so I never had a problem breaking coral apart.

That usually applied only towards mushrooms and zoas since they were so easy to frag with low risk of harming the coral. I can't think of one incident where my colony died because of fragging. I can understand if a business doesn't want to risk any deaths though!

[apedroza]

I have actually received frags from aquatek and a small frag from aquatic warehouse. I actually think I may have got something small from kingfish as well.

[captexas]

I don't think he is asking who sells frags in general, but if any stores have/would frag from a main colony they have either for sale or in their display tanks.

[Richard]

I rarely fragged anything. When I did it was because I felt like fragging something not because someone requested a piece of a coral. It had nothing to do with worrying about harming the coral.

I spoken with some in the industry about this very topic. Some feel that it's fine since the hobbyist gets a cheap (from their perspective) coral and the store gets to make more money on a coral by chopping it up. Others thought it was unethical from a retail perspective since you are taking a coral that cost you $20 and instead of selling it for $40-$60 (the standard industry margin) you are chopping it up into say 10 pieces and selling them for $10-15 a piece which is a much higher margin.

I don't have a problem with stores that do it or stores that don't. The reason I generally didn't do it was quite honestly because I didn't feel like it.

[JimD]

"The reason I generally didn't do it was quite honestly because I didn't feel like it."

Exactly, as the store owner, he/she can do wahtever they feel like doing, after all, its their store. Theres no set rules so its completely up to them.

http://www.maast.org/forums/smooth/misc/progress.gif

[captexas]

"The reason I generally didn't do it was quite honestly because I didn't feel like it."

Exactly, as the store owner, he/she can do wahtever they feel like doing, after all, its their store. Theres no set rules so its completely up to them.


http://www.maast.org/forums/smooth/misc/progress.gif


Well you said as long as it stayed on topic, but then you slightly changed the topic! So to respond to your new topic. . .

I agree 100% that it is an owner's perogative to run their business how they want, but from a customer service standpoint and interest in not coming off as being rude to your customers, I don't think you tell your paying customers the reason you won't do something is "because I don't feel like it". If it's against store policy, fine, I have no problem accepting an answer like that, even if you were lying to me. But tell me you won't do it simply because you don't feel like it tells me you don't think I'm important as a customer. It says you would do it for someone else, but just not for me. And while it's an owners perogative to run their business how they want, it's also a customers perogative to take their money elsewhere and/or to tell others of their experience.

Back to the original topic now . . .
I don't think I've seen any retailer frag a colony that was for sale as a colony. Sometimes LFS will have a colony in a frag grow-out tank specifically for fragging so that's a different story. Sometimes maybe at Fin Addict, but probably sold more in frags than in colonies.

[Bill S]

FA and Aquatic Warehouse were both great about selling frags. Yes, I'm sure they made more money on it but it also allowed more people to enjoy (or kill) the same coral. If you remember, Felipe, for a while, was big into propagation.

[JimD]

Slightly? You've obviouisly missed the point...

[captexas]

Slightly? You've obviouisly missed the point...


:cool::not_talking::innocent2:

[JimD]

lol, I rest my case....

[caferacermike]

In response to Apedroza's comments about the Tek and possibly Kingfish fragging, I've received a few frags from both retailers but they were more like gifts than something I was paying for. More like something needed to be cut back or I inquired about a piece in a show tank and being gifted a small piece of it. Kinda like some of the fragging I saw at CB Pets as Richard said, if it needed pruning you might get a piece of it. I've not really seen either stores frag because someone wanted to pay less or buy less of it. I have noticed a colony here or there that may look like it was fragged BEFORE being offered for sale. I have bought "frags" from shops before that were leftovers at the bottom of the tanks when I was setting up my tank. Of course several retailers are selling frags from other hobbyists or from vendors but I still can't think of a time when I've actually witnessed someone "haggle" a local ATX retailer to cut a coral in half.

With it being said that Fin Addict and Aquarium Warehouse having both fragged corals for customers is the consensus that SA is where people buy frags instead of colonies?

[fjr_wertheimber]

So my main question is WHO actually frags their corals for their customers?

Well, I've gotten frags from Kingfish and Aquatek before, so, umm... not quite as uncommon in Austin as you think...

[apedroza]

In response to Apedroza's comments about the Tek and possibly Kingfish fragging, I've received a few frags from both retailers but they were more like gifts than something I was paying for. More like something needed to be cut back or I inquired about a piece in a show tank and being gifted a small piece of it. Kinda like some of the fragging I saw at CB Pets as Richard said, if it needed pruning you might get a piece of it. I've not really seen either stores frag because someone wanted to pay less or buy less of it. I have noticed a colony here or there that may look like it was fragged BEFORE being offered for sale. I have bought "frags" from shops before that were leftovers at the bottom of the tanks when I was setting up my tank. Of course several retailers are selling frags from other hobbyists or from vendors but I still can't think of a time when I've actually witnessed someone "haggle" a local ATX retailer to cut a coral in half.

With it being said that Fin Addict and Aquarium Warehouse having both fragged corals for customers is the consensus that SA is where people buy frags instead of colonies?

Mike you are correct. I never paid for the frags. In all instances they were either broken off pieces or gifts to pass around. Bruce is really good about sharing polyps that are kinda floating around, and rather than lose them behind an over flow he gives them away.

[FSU]

Just for clarification and I will not say anything more. I wanted a frag because atm, I just set my 75g up 2 days ago and the only thing I have available to put it in is a 14g nano.

Also, I am in San Antonio and most of my dealings before I quit the hobby for a couple years, were with Felipe and Sara pretty much all the time.

Caferacermike, I take no offense as different people have different opinions. Thank you for pointing that out though. :D

[crossxfire2]

Bruce frags his large purple acropora coral in display tank every to every other week. I have no idea what he does with the pieces which he cuts off, though. Does anybody know?

[jroescher]

I miss Fin Addict.

[caferacermike]

Well, I've gotten frags from Kingfish and Aquatek before, so, umm... not quite as uncommon in Austin as you think...



Did you walk in and ask them to frag a piece of something and pay for it? Or was it more of a hey bud I think this would look good in your tank, here is a little frag because you are a good customer? And was the frag from a display tank or for-sale tank, as that makes a huge difference. I've not seen shops in Austin readily frag their stock for customers not wanting to buy an entire piece. I've heard of a few times when a coral may have been over $200 and the shop cutting off a few mouths to help lower the over all price but that was only once or twice. See in SA a few shops fragged their stock willingly and whenever.

[captexas]

I think one difference with FA and AW compared to other LFS is that from the start up of their stores, the owners had a main goal focusing on "coral propagation" for the purpose of selling and trading frags. This included growing out colonies and selling frags from them while keeping the main colony in tact. Of course their plans changed slightly over time, but I think it is that plan and attitude that is why you don't see fragging of existing colonies as much elsewhere.

[brewercm]

I think one difference with FA and AW compared to other LFS is that from the start up of their stores, the owners had a main goal focusing on "coral propagation" for the purpose of selling and trading frags. This included growing out colonies and selling frags from them while keeping the main colony in tact.

I agree, but at the same time unless you have very deep pockets to start that would be a very hard venture to take on. Between keeping your tanks pristine enough along with all the equipment you'd require to get these to grow out fast enough and still keep color other than brown would be a hard thing to do. I'd hate to see the electric bills alone that would be involved. Now if you were going to do this out of your house that would be another thing, but as a primary business I'd hate to take it on.

Nothing against either of them, and I wish they were both still around. Just my thoughts on trying to run a business through strictly prorogation.

[Bill S]

As Cliff said, the propagation business is one that takes big startup costs to do it right, and then one has to be VERY careful about the investment. Many folks will remember that Felipe found out the hard way when they lost everything in their prop tanks over a Christmas holiday a few years ago. As we look back at it, that was probably the defining moment for FA - he could never again catch up.