Killed all my fish

[dabbott]

Still not sure what the cause is/was but all of my fish have bitten the dust. I thought it was ich and was treating with garlic but that didn't do a thing. My tank now has a starfish, hermit crabs/snails and live rock. Question is what do you do to make sure that my tank is ok before putting stuff back in.


Please help. I will answer any questions, so as to get the best advice.

[MissT]

:what_smile:

You done a water sample yet?
They all die in one day?
Checked all your equipment?

[ou812pezz]

was it sudden death? An what are your water parameters?

[RayAllen]

As mentioned without testing you water we are clueless. It could be a equipment malfunction like a heater shorting out or you ammonia level can be through the roof. To many variables without a test.

[captexas]

Also, how long have you had the tank set-up?

[aquasport24]

sorry, to hear that..

[Texreefer]

a list of fish
how long tank was set up
what test kits do you have
why did you suspect ick
what are you using for filtration
were you dosing anything besides garlic

these are important basic questions,, dont put anything else in until we get these questions answered and corrected

[papijames]

Sorry to hear about your lost. I killed 8fish myself between november to december but that was due to my lack of education on the hobby. I got my 55gal tank tank last week of October for my birthday gift to myself. Since I bought wet/dry, protein skimmer, live sand, 20lbs of live rock I thought I could just add all the fish at once. The tank would only hold 3 fish. everytime I buy a new one it would die, I would get mad at that Fish store and go buy from another one, to realize they were all dying. Then I came here to Maast in december and learned something about bioload. I then add 1 fish per month and currently have a total of 5 with 60lbs of Live rock. My tank was too new and wasn't ready for the load.
Another thing I did wrong in november was adding too much salt on my 1st water change. had a 1.027 reading and thought it was ok since the ocean water is "salty" then the next day realized my yellow tang and hippo had started to have those cracks along their body. hippo survived, yellow tang, six line wrasse, and singapore angel all died in 2days. I'm glad I found out about Maast. Alot of Pros in here waiting for you to post your problem so they can help.
So do my mistakes sound familiar to you?

[Texreefer]

Sorry to hear about your lost. I killed 8fish myself between november to december but that was due to my lack of education on the hobby. I got my 55gal tank tank last week of October for my birthday gift to myself. Since I bought wet/dry, protein skimmer, live sand, 20lbs of live rock I thought I could just add all the fish at once. The tank would only hold 3 fish. everytime I buy a new one it would die, I would get mad at that Fish store and go buy from another one, to realize they were all dying. Then I came here to Maast in december and learned something about bioload. I then add 1 fish per month and currently have a total of 5 with 60lbs of Live rock. My tank was too new and wasn't ready for the load.
Another thing I did wrong in november was adding too much salt on my 1st water change. had a 1.027 reading and thought it was ok since the ocean water is "salty" then the next day realized my yellow tang and hippo had started to have those cracks along their body. hippo survived, yellow tang, six line wrasse, and singapore angel all died in 2days. I'm glad I found out about Maast. Alot of Pros in here waiting for you to post your problem so they can help.
So do my mistakes sound familiar to you?

great tesimony! lots of info here and lots of people willing to help
Welcome to MAAST!

[dabbott]

Ok, I just took a sample of my water to alamo aquatics and they said everything tests fine. All levels are in order.

So I am completely at at lost. One thing that I have noticed is that my emerald crab has white stuff all over the top of it's shell. I have attached a photo.

As for the fish, basically every morning i would find another one dead. They went in this order.

A flame Angel
A bicolor angel
Tru Perc
Damsel
mandarin goby
Tru Perc
mandarin goby
damsel
yellow tang

My tank has been setup since October. I have a 55gal tank with roughly 60-70lbs of live rock, a protein skimmer, crushed corral, and a emperor 400 filter.

[dabbott]

Here is a pic of the emerald crab

[aprilmayjune]

Did they tell you what your parameters were other than 'fine?' Also, what is your salinity, temperature, do you dose anything, anything change in the tank recently like doing a partial, adding a new guy, etc? Where the fish acting suspicious at all such as appetite, behavior, scratching/flashing, breathing rate, personality, color change wise? And has anyone survived this ordeal besides the emerald?

It is hard to diagnose without witnessing first hand, the info would really help fix this mess!

[dabbott]

They used a stick that they dipped into the water. don't remember the name of the kit. They said all the levels were in order. Didn't give me any specific numbers. My salinity is 1.020. I have a submersible hydrometer and I try to keep it near the bottom of the acceptable range.

My temp is roughly 78.

Only thing left are the crab, starfish, hermit crabs and snails and a peppermint shrimp.

[reeferRob]

They used a stick that they dipped into the water. don't remember the name of the kit. They said all the levels were in order. Didn't give me any specific numbers. My salinity is 1.020. I have a submersible hydrometer and I try to keep it near the bottom of the acceptable range.

My temp is roughly 78.

Only thing left are the crab, starfish, hermit crabs and snails and a peppermint shrimp.

The thing you have to understand about saltwater is that you MUST KNOW "all the levels" and keep a constant eye on the levels. Until then I don't believe anyone in this forum can really even give you a wild guess as to why you fish are dieing.

PH
Salinity using an ACCURATE device
stable temp
Alkalinity
Amonia
Nitrites
Nitrates

I think the above are the BARE minimum parameters you will have to test to get to the dieing fish problem. I am almost sure that 1 or more of these are WAY out of whack, and I would be willing to bet (although I could be WAY wrong) that it was nothing you imported into the tank.

Just my .02


Rob

[dabbott]

any kits that you all recommend

[dabbott]

guess i will just start from scratch again. i have given all the information that I have.

[dabbott]

also, if I took the water to get tested and they told me that everything was in order. They tested nitrates/nitrites and said that they were fine.

the ph was 8.0
ammonia 0
temp 78
salinity 1.020

I don't know what else to do besides just start over. I am new to this and trying to do it right.

[reeferRob]

They used a stick that they dipped into the water. don't remember the name of the kit. They said all the levels were in order. Didn't give me any specific numbers. My salinity is 1.020. I have a submersible hydrometer and I try to keep it near the bottom of the acceptable range.

My temp is roughly 78.

Only thing left are the crab, starfish, hermit crabs and snails and a peppermint shrimp.

As reading above I was under the impression you didn't have the numbers. Those parameter numbers aren't great but I doubt any of them would cause a mass die off, however there are some critical parameters that very easily could cause that sort of die off that are still unknown, suac as alk and amonia. I also would not be comfortable with a test strip test kit. I use salifert test kits but that doesn't mean there aren't others just as good.

We also have no info on your filtration *** oops yes we do, a protien skimmer and emp 400****

[Texreefer]

If you want to stop by some evening I will go through some books I have with you,, let you see my set up and explain a few things plus show you how I do my testing and what I use to test,, we can do a step by step set up and procedure if you like,, just let me know
Mike

[dabbott]

Mike that would be cool. Let me know when you have some time on your hands.

[reeferRob]

If you want to stop by some evening I will go through some books I have with you,, let you see my set up and explain a few things plus show you how I do my testing and what I use to test,, we can do a step by step set up and procedure if you like,, just let me know
Mike


WOW Can't beat that! Awesome.

[MissT]

Yep, it woulld be a good idea to take hime up on that! very cool of you, Mike!

I didn't see any mention of nitrite or nitrate... in sudden fish loss, those are probably the more important, along with salinity, in determining what's going on. IME, the dip stick tests are highly inaccurate. For "bang for buck" API test kits are good ones to have around for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. They're quick and easy to do, and easy to read.
Good Luck!

[papijames]

Dabbott I've been keeping an eye, well make it both eyes, on your posting. I went though that same struggle. Also went to Alamo Aquatic twice a week to get my water tested. You can ask gabe or jason about james and they'll start laughing :)because they couldn't find anything wrong with my water either. I did what they told me to do, which was to be patient. It seems like your tank was overloaded like mine. all my parameters were ok but fish were still dying. you had 2 angel fish in just a 55gal? I don't think that was a good idea. stress killed your fish, like it did to mines.
started in january I've been doing 10gal of water change per week, using RO water ($1 per 5gal @ Heb best price you can find) I also swith from Instant ocean to RedSea Premium Salt. I feed my fish Marine Cuisine and Spiriluna brine/mysis shimp all soak in Garlic/Zoe/Zoecon. I can proudly say I'm running in 2months with healthy looking fish.
Now I'm not saying you should use everything that I use, but at least take your time with the amount of fish you'll be adding. by the way dave(darth-tater) told me I should do 5gal/week or 10gal every 2weeks.

[dabbott]

papijames,

thanks for the comments. actually i had the flame first and then when he died I got the bicolor cause I was told the flame was a hard fish to keep cause of finnicky eating.

thanks for the suggestions though, you are not the first to tell me that. I think next go around I will only add one fish per month.

[Bill S]

I only use Salifert kits. As noted above, get yourself a decent glass floating hydrometer - not the ones with the floating arm!

[Jynxgirl]

Agree on the glass hydrometer. Its always in there. I still have the arm one and run it through everynight at feeding. If there is an issue, I just go look at it. My swing arm is always a little higher then what it actually is.

[Sherri]

Never did explain why you thought ich was the cause of death of your fish? Can you tell us what you saw to think so?

[mattymalcolm]

For new tanks I like to put live rock and maybe one fish for like the first six months. For me on new tanks everything is crazy for like six months.

[MKCindy]

White on the Emerald Crab is probably calcium deposits, mine gets it too.
Mandarin goby need a well established tank so I would steer clear of them for at least a year. Angle and Tangs need large tanks. www.liveaquaria.com is a great site for detailed info on fish and their requirements. I'm totally stumped om why the Star fish survived and not the other fish.

[atxchris1234]

Link to floating hydrometer?

[dabbott]

Sherri,

I saw white on some of the fish, but someone was telling me that it was probably them over producing their slim coat due to stress.

Also come from a fresh water environment I guess I am just prone to blame everything on ick.

[Bill S]

http://www.aquatichouse.com/Test%20Kits_files/hydrometer.asp

The big one.

I also found this from Anthony Calfo:

I am looking for a recommendation for a Hydrometer / Refractometer for measuring specific gravity.
<your best bet/value IMO... a glass hydrometer (do spend the extra and get one of the $20-30 units). These are arguably more reliable then even the handheld refractometers>
I have the usual cheap one, but am told I should get a better one for hypo salinity treatments in QT tanks, etc. If
you have a link of one or can comment on the refractometers on marine depot (around $70), I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks, Andy
<the cheap hobby grade handheld refractometers are good... but not as great as one sometimes here's about. Reliability in refractometers is to be found in table mount models (not influenced easily by temp) and on lab grade equipment. Refractometers that are made cheaply overseas (imported $15-25 and retailing $50-80) are not always as good as you might hope for them to be. Whichever you choose... simply avoid using the plastic hydrometers as a primary. Anthony>