Do shrimp play dead, or is it really dead?

[labrown]

I did a 10 gallon water change in my tank today, 55 gal FOWLR. Salinity and temp are normal, ammonia levels at 0, and all the other inhabitants seem to be doing well. But there is a skunk shrimp in the corner barely moving, and it seems like he has fallen over. i have two skunk shrimp and the other one seems to be doing just fine. It seems as though its little teeth are still moving, and his leg moves every once in a while. How do I know if it has really died, and should I remove it from my tank pronto if it has?

[hobogato]

maybe he is molting?

[labrown]

Gosh I really hope so.

[labrown]

I think it is over for this guy. I walked away and came back less than 5 minutes later, and this is what I found.

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[bigmoe21]

maybe you threw your salinity into wack with the water change?..inverts are sensitive to drastic changes in salinity right?

[labrown]

The salinity is right on at 1.021, and the other skunk shrimp seems to be doing ok. We are testing our levels right now, the pH is at 8.2 and the Nitrate level is at 10 mg/l. The nitrite test takes a little longer, but as of right now it looks like it is under 1 mg/l.

Yep, nitrites at .2 mg/l

I am totally lost as to what might have happened.

[envy]

my pistol shrimp(when i can see it) and emerald crab do that before they molt. when they molt you will notice an empty casing and it is split in the middle somewhere. if he didn't get out clean you will find pieces here and there but will be hollow. if it dies a part of it will open but you will notice it is not hollow and still has stuff inside of it. thats how my little emerald looked but before it did die it lost most of its color(from green to white).

[labrown]

Hmm, Well, the first one is definitely gone because if he wasn't dead before the snail got to him, the snail for sure ate out his insides.

Now our second one is most likely dead. He hasn't been attacked by our cleanup crew, but he isn't moving. He has just collapsed under a rock.

I can't figure out what is wrong. All of my tank levels seem to be in good shape. The only thing I can think of is that we stirred up a lot from the substrate when we cleaned the gravel during our water change and they choked or suffocated on it. All of our other fish and snails, the new urchin, etc seem to be doing ok.

Oh man, I hope my tank doesn't crash overnight! Help!

[labrown]

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[bigmoe21]

did you test for ammonia? could the stirring of the sand have caused a ****e maybe? idk sorry

[labrown]

My ammonia indicator says my level is at 0. I guess I don't know what you were trying to abbreviate or censor with the *'s, but I appreciate the help. I just hope my fish are all ok.

What a bummer to see some of the inhabitants die. I lost a little clownfish once, and those same snails chowed down just like they did this time. Sigh... I don't really know what to do anymore. Thanks though!

[alton]

What type of fish do you have in your tank? Also check to see if your dead shrimp have there eyes? Some smaller fish have a habit of just plucking the eyes out.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=169
It took me three shrimp before I realized he was the culprit and all he did was pluck the eyes.

[erikharrison]

RO water or tap? What was the temp of the water that you put in? Was the salt properly mixed and did you check it's salinity before you poured it in? What do you use to check salinity?

[labrown]

I have a yellow tang, two ocellaris clowns, a long nosed hawkfish, and two red firefish. They have all lived in harmony for a long time, we had the shrimp before any of the other fish. And they still had their eyes. Bummer about your lost shrimp though.

I used tap water, just like I usually do, and then add an essential elements chemical to it. The temp of the new water was right about 75 degrees, the spec. gravity was between 1.021 and 1.023 of each batch (2 five gallon buckets) I thought I mixed in the salt well. I always wait til the water looks clear before adding it to the tank. None of this is any different than how I usually perform my water changes. I checked the spec gravity in the tank this morning and it is at 1.022, and all of my fish seem to be doing fine. I check my spec gravity with a hydrometer from Red Sea. One of my three Nassarius snails seems to be dead this morning, though. I can't tell for sure, but he has been perched on the same rock since last night, and usually they burrow down in the substrate after they finish eating. But I have seen another one of them this morning that is moving right along. The dead one may be the one I found eating the shrimp last night.
The two things I think could have happened to the shrimp are this. I may have disturbed them too much when I was cleaning the gravel last night. It is possible I knocked up enough funk in their little corner to suffocate them. And the only other thing I can think of is that they may have got a direct shot of the new water when it was going into the tank. Usually I try to put my hose right up to the glass in a corner so no one gets a direct hit from the new water.
I am watching all of my invertibrates this morning to see how everyone else is doing. I have seen two of my 3 Nassarius snails, one maybe dead, one slowly alive. My hermit crab is still kicking, and the pencil urchin seems to be ok, but those guys don't move much so it is hard to tell.

I am working on adding a sump system to my aquarium with a EuroReef RS-80 here in the next month or so, and I think it will allow for safer water changes and less disturbances in my main display.

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and advice. I can't imagine what I'd have done if I didn't have anyone to turn to except Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies.

[labrown]

Update, the Nassarius snail has started moving again. Temp of the tank is right at 75 degrees.

[erikharrison]

I would have that water double checked. Sure, you expect some death at some time, but if you have several deaths at once, the first thing I wouldd have checked and re-checked is your water quality. It's always a good thing to check. The only time I would speculate something different is if you had changed something. I had a swing arm incorrectly registering 10 points off. It would read 1.021 and would really be 1.031.....

[erikharrison]

Also, is your tank temp dropping alot at night? 75 is on the brink of too chilly....

[coraline79]

if your tank temp is at 75 w/ lights it is definitely dropping at least 1-3 degrees at night and that is probably to cold. I keep my tank at 79 degrees. When my lights go out, my sump light which is pretty warm comes on for the night to help maintain temp.

[coraline79]

if your tank temp is at 75 w/ lights it is definitely dropping at least 1-3 degrees at night and that is probably to cold. I keep my tank at 79 degrees. When my lights go out, my sump light which is pretty warm comes on for the night to help the heatr maintain temp. my house temp fluctuates from 72-75.

[Jynxgirl]

I once had this happen. I called it twitching. Shrimp would do it and some crabs, but not other crabs. One of my shrimp twitched for three or four days. Didnt die, but didnt move. I ended up taking it out of my tank and putting it in my brothers. He stopped twitching and was back to normal in a few days. A coral banded i moved over didnt fair as well though and died when I moved him over. Any new shrimp I attempted to put in would twitch after a few days after the initial incident and I would move them to try and save them or they would die after a few days. I didnt try with cleaner shrimp after the first go round, just peppermint. This was in a tank that had been set up for a while. I never figured out the problem. This was about the time that I had a heater leak stray voltage in my tank and kill all my fish and I thought maybe it had leaked something into my tank. Chemicals never showed up on any test kits (copper and other tests I did that I cant remember). It was very frustrating. None of my other inverts showed any effect. I can now keep shrimp again, but for six months are so, everything did that when I put them in my tank.

Jill

[erikharrison]

Based on what Jynx girl posted, I found these...

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clrshrpbehfaqs.htm
and
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clrshrpdisfaqs.htm

While on the first page that I linked, press F3 and in the find box type twitch and press enter. It'll take you to the part that talks about twitching.

[labrown]

Thanks for all the helpful information. I am going to take a water sample to Aquatek today to see what they say, as well as take my hydrometer so they can test it against one of theirs. Thankfully I work just a few blocks from there.

After this incident I am for sure going to get a spare tank so I could have moved them over to give them a fighting chance. When they fell over and stopped moving, my Nassarius snail went to town on them, and if they weren't dead before, they were definitely dead after that.

My tank has actually dropped below 75 on a few rare occasions and all of the inhabitants did ok when that happened. But I am going to try to keep it warmer now, just to keep it from fluctuating.

Thanks again for all of the tips and pointers. It will be a while before I can replace these guys because I still have to buy my Mag 5 and overflow box for the sump. I think those are my #1 priority right now. The shrimp will be sorely missed.

I will post more about the levels if I find out anything new.

[erikharrison]

Awesome, posting back would be great for others that need to know, or for future members searching our forums for information. :)

[labrown]

Went to Aquatek today and had my levels tested. My nitrates are fairly high, around 50 mg/l instead of 10, so I am going to try to do water changes every few days for about a week to get that back down. I got some iodine to help perk up the rest of my inverts, because now my Nassarius snails are doing poorly. I will attach pics, I just dosed with iodine and am hoping this one may perk back up, but he looks dead to me. Second picture is of both of the snails, the one in the background isn't moving either. And then the third is the featherduster type worm in my liverock that seems to be suffering. I know picture 3 isn't that great, but the lashes of the worm are pretty wilted.
755756757

So now I guess my question is this:
Is that snail dead? :rolleyes:

[labrown]

And now the snail that was on his back is alive and crawling up the side of the tank again.

I have an exorcist snail!!

[labrown]

I am still having many problems with my snails. I have dosed the tank with iodine recently. But every morning I wake up and at least two of them are curled up on their backs, and then about an hour later, they seem to get up and move around. They do this a few times a day. And sometimes I find a large one on its back but he is still moving. They don't look very healthy, and I don't know why they keep rolling over like they are dead and then springing back to life. Something has to be wrong still...

[labrown]

This is what my snails look like this morning.
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[JimD]

When you test for iodine, what is your current level?

[Jynxgirl]

When I had my problem, I tested for magnesium, iodine, copper, and alot of other tests. Steve from Horizon suggested that I take it to the city to get an analysis on it, as I kept turning up blank on all my tests. I never did do this, even though I probably should have. I know you can take your water to Texas State and they will do a full analysis on your water. Taking it to an LFS only does so much.

Instead of small water changes, I would suggest a very very large water change. If its water related, this should fix the problem. Like 80% of your water. After all this time and all the bad thing I have happened to me, I have found to start with the easiest thing. A water change seems to be the easiest, even if I have to do 200 gallons!

If its a chemical and its in your rocks then your going to have to run something to get it out. I would suggest going and picking up a polyfilter and running it anyhow. By putting tap water in, that day there may have been a ****e of something or other, besides just copper, that isnt showing up on any of the usually available test kits. I had my sump leaking and removed water out of my end and stuck a mag five in with a water hose that I used to water changes to bring the water up to the top. I didnt think about the fact that I had never cut the end off and it was metal. A day later, and everything was acting funny. I tested, and never got a reading for copper. Put a poly filter on, and 24 hours later, my fish and inverts were back to normal. I dont know what the chemical was that was effecting my fish and inverts but I think the poly filter helped.

When I got my nickname 15 years ago, I sure didnt realize how well it would fit!

Jill

[Jynxgirl]

One other thing.... GROUND PROBE. If you dont have one, go get one. My inverts acted funny before I had my major electricution catastrophe. I know there is some stray voltage meter that you can get, but ??? I never got one of these. I probably should.

Just throwing out another idea that came to me after I posted.

[MissT]

for reference, what keeps getting sensored out is spi_ke... for some reason the filter censors out that one

[MKCindy]

Are you finding the upside down snails in the same areas? If a snail or crab gets close to my clowns host frogspawn, they will nip and flip them. Six liner does it too. I right them in the mornings and they are fine.

[labrown]

Ok, so everything has been doing ok for a while, but today we did a 50-60% water change, and it killed our two firefish. Everything else seems to be doing ok, the shrimp are doing better, but for some reason the firefish both keeled over. I got a new test kit for my levels, and they are all ok, pH, nitrate/ite, ammonia, all just fine. Salinity and temp are ok too. What is going on???

Is there anything I could be checking in my tap water that might be causing this??

[Bill S]

Uh oh. You are using tap water???

[labrown]

yep and adding essential elements to the mix. We haven't had any problems with it before, and have been doing the water changes monthly from our tap for at least 6 months. We don't have hard water either...