Help marine ich 260gal Saltwater 2 Sharks 7 fish =/

[NauticaICE]

they've got white spots on them, they are breathing heavily, they are lackadasical, loss of appetite, keep rubbing against the sand all my fish have the ich

my shark is 2 feet long the other is 15 inch how can i cure the tank from the ich.. i also have white worms in the tank but my ammonium levels are going down due to me making water changes everyday now in an effort to save ppl yes i over fed and let food decay in my tank.. now im paying 4 it..

[chuck4824]

I had the same problem a few months ago when I didn't cycle my tank long enough. Stressed everyone out and lost just about all my fish.

The only thing I found that might have helped was "ICH ATTACK".
Seems to be a lot of garlic and being a pharmacist I didn't buy into it helping, but it did seem to help no matter what my thoughts were. Was able to save some fish after I started using it.

If you live in NC SA I have a full bottle here if you want to treat your tank tonight. You can call me at 601 6559.

Actually, I'm going to try to go to sleep. I'm going to put the bottle on the porch if you want to come pick it up. The address is 1626 Foxberry in zip 78248. It's on the corner of Foxberry and Thrushridge. Feel free to come pick it up as I know what a feeling of panic it is and maybe we can save some of your guys. It's a 16 ounce bottle so even at double dosing which you can do in severe cases it's enough to for a first treatment.

David

[NauticaICE]

wow your amazing.. thank you but theres one minor prob. i live in california thank you for the hospitality..

steer me right guys but ive been reading a little and from what i take from this forum im going to get me a bottle of Amquel + plus removes nitrate, nitrate, Amonnia

going to get a cleaner wrasse, and also a bottle of Extreme garlic..

how will i feed my sharks the garlic?? im really worried they havent eaten in a couple of days usually i put some krill/squid in my tank and they automatically eat it , they pick up the scent trail and circle around but it seems like they dont have the strength to fend for it and eat it while the rest of my infected fish eat

[aquasport24]

I thought sharks,eels, and stingrays cant' have ick..

[erikharrison]

"Amquel + plus removes nitrate, nitrate, Amonnia" just so you know it only changes the chemical to ammonium which it only does for a few hours. Water changes, and soak your food in garlic. Since they are not eating, let it soak for an hour or so. Do you have a QT tank? With sharks and large fish it would be highly beneficial to set one up if you haven't.
Try and do a 50% water change and make sure to get as much detritus suspended in the water column as possible and suck as much of it out as you can!
How much liverock do you have in that tank?
Do you have a fuge?
What kind of skimmer/filtration do you have in place?
The reason that I ask is because you have a HUGE bioload, and your levels will be through the roof all the time unless you have something going on in means of exportation.
I would get a few cleaners as they are not guaranteed to clean. The ones that will do it, will probably do so instantly.

Sorry to hear about your problem. Hope we can help you save some animals.

[Dominican]

1) Get REAL garlic, crush it, and soak their food in the juices prior to feeding from now until well after you have solved this problem

2) Do a water change asap, 30-50%

3) Critical: get a UV Sterilizer with enough wattage for your size tank.


I know there are lots of opinions out there, but in my experience, these three things in combination will blast any ich problem.

Longer term, there's also loweing salinity. I'm sure you can find lots of posts on the subject.

[kaiser]

I would recommend to install a UV Sterilizer (sp?).

[RayAllen]

Also do a search for ick and you will find all sort of info on here. Just click on the search tab above and you will be good to go.

[erikharrison]

I would recommend to install a UV Sterilizer (sp?).

For sure. I would make my primary focus feeding irght now since they are not eating, but make sure to remove the excess! If the UV is done proeperly and you dont run water through it too fast, it will kill the free floating parasites in the water. IME, when I have one running, and the bulbs are new (3 mo life span MAX for effectiveness) my fish will not get a spot of ich. I had black ich, which is apparently the worst ich of them all, but I read Texas Todd's post about dosing with Vitamin C, and one of the things that it claims to cure is black ich. The day after I started dosing Vitamin C, the black ich went away, and I have not seen it at all. Prior to this I would see it all the time, but I believe that the UV kept it in check. FYI, until I read that post, I could not find any real cure for it.

[erikharrison]

Here's an excerpt from the link, which can be found below.
Vitamin C has many beneficial properties, here are some of them:

detoxifies the livers of the fish. This may be really important if your fish were caught using the cyanide method, still too frequently practiced
prevents to a large degree bacterial infections from spreading rapidly and becoming sores on the body of fishes
can deal with minor outbreaks of common parasites and keep them from becoming widespread, negating the need to use other treatment to rid the fishes of them
builds up and strengthens the immune system of the fishes by allowing the evacuation of heavy metals, for instance
heals wounds
heals mout rot scars
heals lesions from black spot disease
effective in combatting lateral line disease when used in the proper amounts (large dosages which are listed later)
effective in combatting hole-in-the-head disease, again, if used in large dosages (as explained later)
greatly reduces the outbreak of parasitic attacks as the fishes are strengthened and able to fight them off, thus preventing large scale parasitic infestations
cleans up the water to some degree
beneficial to most corals on which we have tried as well
can very safely be used in reef tanks. Many other medications cannot as many of you who have tried have experienced
much better than copper and/or antibiotics
safe for use in all aquariums, including reefsThe link to this page in particular is here (http://www.athiel.com/lib2/pguide/vitami1.html).

The thread on Reef Central is here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1252294).

Please if you do dose, follow the directions WORD FOR WORD, otherwise you could easily cause your PH to go out of whack.

[Bill S]

OK, just my $0.02.

It appears to me that the Ich breakout was stress related - it almost always is. I'm guessing that the stress is from the lousy water quality.

So, first, remove the stress (get your tank parms under control - even if it's BIG water changes). Salt is cheap. Go buy 2 buckets right away.

Next you need to preserve your livestock, and get them over the Ich. Best way is FOOD. Just make sure they eat what you feed them - feed them several times a day, but don't waste any. You want to avoid further contributions to your water quality problems.

[coraline79]

I had ich and lost one fish, but I have found that the garlic works. I feed garlic soaked food once every couple of days and ich has never returned. Feeding is the key though. Another thing you can do that I didn't see mentioned is turn your heater up to about 82 degrees if your livestock can survive in that temp, and this will speed the ich cycle. There are a million tricks out there, but these are the ones that work for me. Oh, and you don't need to go out and buy garlic cloves, Garlic Guard is is pure garlic concentrate, and much easier. it costs about 6 bucks.

[bananags]

i do not claim to be expert on this at all, you can find a lot of scientific info on ick with google =)

Ick life cycle : free float parasite --> attach to fish host (feed) --> go back down to sand/rock -> multiply (eggs) --> come back up as free float parasite -> cycle start over (est 2 weeks)

=> The key idea in eliminate ick in a close system (aquarium) is to break this life cycle

Scientific option:
- chemical (not reef safe) - fast but stress the fish even more
- Hypo-salinity 1.009-1.010 option (not reef safe) - slow, if do it right, no stress to fish, cost $0 also

Notes: this does not do anything to the parasite when it's in eggs form, so you have to timed the cycle and do a few treatment to make sure nothing come back, also your main display tank also still have parasite or eggs

Alternative option: (that other reefers may defend with their tank on it)
(water condition, loss of appetites due to ick, itching due to parasite...) (not in any order) fresh water dip, cleaner shrimp, cleaner wrasse, vacuum tank bottom for parasite and eggs, garlic food, raise tank temp of accelerate the ICK cycle...
==> some of the alternate methods can be use as an emergency / temporally itch release to the fish only (like fresh water dip will kill all parasites on fish boby (also stress the fish like crazy to)

Notes: all of these alternative method are (to me) just to Help the fish stay a live long enough to wait for "an act of god" that break the ick life cycle (this does work out to our favor, especially with bigger tank and you have other cleaning crew in the tank that may eat the ick egg or mess it up.
(ick parasite still have to obey the same survival of the fittest or luckiest law of nature)


It does not make sense to me why so many people claim that the ICK is caused by fish stressed. It's a parasite, it has to be in your tank and eat something to stay alive (2 week cycle) maybe when your fish is stressed, they tend to go in hiding in sand/rock where the ick parasite is waiting there --> but remember, like any thing alive, they can not hide in the rock forever without eating. If your tank is fish free for 4 weeks or more, I am sure there is no ick can live that long
You have to bring it in to your closed system some how. --(quarantine fish and dip your corals topic again)




In the ocean, this is not a problem, the fish get the parasite, when the parasite move to the next cycle, the fish is at a different location and it basically broke the cycle by moving to a new location (there many other act of the high above that break the cycle in the ocean that i am not listing)--> not in a closed aquarium case


Please note:
-There is no scientific proof that garlic do anything for ICK but increase appetites which may result is a stronger fish --> live long enough to out last the ICK cycle.


One this I wanted to add is that, keep up your tank water condition long after the ick disappeared ( for as long as your own the tank, but specifically for ICK maybe 6weeks ;) is plenty of time to make sure it does not come back), because they may goes down to sand to multiply and come back triple the number

[erikharrison]

The reason you want a fish to eat is not just to keep it alive and wait for an act of God, lol. A fed fish is a healthy fish, at least if they have a varied diet. You want to keep the fish alive until you can get your parameters in line. If you have a high salinity, your fish are more succeptible to parasitic infection as well. Yes, a parasite is a parasite, and how they live is by feeding off other animals, but from what I have read, certain types of parasites also live longer without a host because they are able to live off fish waste and other materials. The idea here is to get the parameters in line as it will greatly reduce the stress on the fish that is trying to fight off the parasitic "infection". You want to provide the best conditions possible to attain the best result. Ich lives everywhere in your tank, it doesn't just hide in the rocks. It's in the gills of fish etc. You can break the cycle by leaving the tank fallow for several months to ensure that the majority of parasites will have no host to live on, but from the sound of it, he doesn't have another large aquarium lying around to just move everything into.
Cleaners are in no way a guarantee either, unless you have active cleaners.
Save your money, don't buy chemicals, buy salt. :)

[Bill S]

All it takes is for a single larvae to attach to a single fish somewhere in your tank, for the cycle to continue. It's my OPINION - and nothing more - that just about every tank will have Ich parasites in it, in some form or fashion.

[captexas]

There may not be "scientific" proof that garlic helps, but thousands of people would attest to it helping in their experiences in this hobby. Just because some doctor or scientist didn't prescribe or approve it, doesn't mean it won't work.

[bananags]

just for the record, i am not trying to start a debate here.
I do believe that garlic does something that help the fish battle ick (it does not kill the parasite directly like chemical or hypo-salinity method), either make the fish eat more which result in more healthy fish, or boost the fish immune system, or parasite does not like garlic smell on fish =) I am sure I don't like my sushi smell like garlic =) , no one know sure (at least garlic is good for human, make food taste great, i love it , other than food, we use garlic for those with high cholesterol, and that is a fact), but like the battle between western medicine and eastern one, if you need to quick release for your fish or if you have time to try out a few thing and it "may" work out just fine.

i am just listing what is the true goal and fact so that someone new on this subject have understanding of what they are fighting with and have a better chance to win it.


=)

One thing about the internet is that everyone may suggest what work for them, but that may not be the same for your situation. So read and read, and try out a few thing, find what work best for you. Don't take my word for it.

I don't use garlic in my tank, I do have a bottle of kent garlic extreme that I got but never oopen it, i am a firm believe of good water and quarantine everything new.

[NauticaICE]

thank you guys, the level of input you guys have given me has been great.. so i spent the whole day today going to various fish stores calling around and what not and this is what i got today

a bottle of Kordon Rid Ich fish owner said harmless to fishes so i might as well just gave it a shot

a bottle of SeaChem Garlic Gaurd im administering them the food right now hopefully theyll eat ill post in a few min to give u an update if my sharks who havent eaten in 5 days will eat

2 Wrasse CLeaners , wonderful fishes they immediately started contributing and its just a beautiful site to watch the host fishes with the parasites on them get serviced by these small fishies, its like they beg to get serviced its great =)

i performed a 50% water change to reduce the ammonia in the tank today..

i have a question i have yet to clean out my protien skimmer its a pain in the butt to get out of my wet dry system.. is it imperative to clean it?? sorry for the noob question

hopefully guys im on my way to curing this ich im just crossing my fingers 500$ worth of fishes =/

[NauticaICE]

nope my 2 sharks didnt even go after the garlic soaked shrimp *sigh

the other fish ate though my cow fish, puffer, 2 tangs and cat fish

[Richard]

Kordon Rid Ich is formalin and malachite green. Neither of these chemicals are safe for inverts or tanks with liverock. I didn't see where you said if you have any inverts or liverock in the tank but if you do then your risking killing off some things which would add to your ammonia problem and possibly worsen the situation.

I have never treated sharks but from what I have read they are very sensitive to most medications and hyposalinity is usually not recommended for sharks either.

The most important thing you can do is get your ammonia levels down to zero. Even low levels of ammonia are very hard on most fish and will greatly reduce the chance of the fish overcoming the ich. I would recommend you add some bacterial additives such as biospira to help beef up your bacteria population. Macro algae's are also pretty effective in reducing ammonia so it wouldn't hurt to add a bunch of fast growing macro (such as cheato or caulerpa) if you can get some.

[Bill S]

Richard, above, is a former owner of a LFS and also has MANY years of experience...