Need advice on a used light set-up

[Jamie]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some input regarding a used lighting set up that a LFS is selling.

First off, I'm shopping for my 150...it's dimensions are 5X2X2. I'm really not sure what I'm going to be keeping in it yet...but would like to keep my options open.

The salesperson said that the light used to be on one of their coral tanks. He more or less went on to say that they switched to VHO's due to heat and cost...since they aren't trying to grow out any corals...just hold them 'till sale. I guess it makes enough sense.

Anyways here's what they've got...

Apparently this is a Prism set up. I don't knoow if that's a good or bad brand. It comes with two 400 watt MH and 2 110 watt VHO's. Includes all the cords and ballasts and new bulbs. I looked at the ballasts and they appeared like new. There were two labeled Blue Line electronic ballasts for the MH's and an Ice Cap 420-008 for the VHO's. It comes with an enclosure with a fan and stuff.

He said the set-up was a few years old. He also mentioned that this rig went for like $2500+ when they were selling it brand new...not sure how accurate that is though. As is they are asking $675.

So...with the above info...

1) Is this a good deal on a good produst?
2) Will it be suitable for a tank of my size/dimensions?

I appreciate any input.

Thanks, Jamie

[hobogato]

generally, people with tanks your depth and shallower will go with 250 watt halides, not 400 watters. matter of preference, but why use more electricity than you have to? i run 250 watters and t5 actinics on mine.

if you have to get an all in one fixture, here (http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1378) is a one i found on the hellolights. you can save money and probably get a better setup for your tank by going with a canopy and retrofit light kits. lumenarc or lumen brights are the best reflectors out for halides, and you can get retro kits for t5 and vho setups.

[Jamie]

Thanks for the reply Ace,

I was looking at that fixture as well. I just wasn't sure if that amount of wattage would suffice. What am I really aiming for? 600 puts me at 4watts/gallon. It seems like a lot of folks are running twice that. This used set-up would give me almost 7 watts/gallon.

Believe me...I'm all about saving a buck on the ol' electric bill.

My tank has a canopy...so I've been looking into retro kits as well...there's just so much to choose from. I was looking at this 6X80watt T5 set-up: http://www.maggiesaquariumsupply.com/viewitem.php?it_id=677 But if I go with something like that...though energy efficient, it's only giving me a little over 3 watts/gallon.

I've been looking at other retro kits...but when all added up, it seems they're just as much as the all in ones...maybe I'm not looking at the right stuff.

Thanks again for all of the help.

[Bill S]

The problem with "all in one"s is that when a component fails, it all fails - basically. Another problem with what you are looking at is that it's used. When looking at used that is that old, I'd use 50% as the MAXIMUM. In other words, if you can buy a new setup with what you want for 2x that or less, it's a better deal to go new. As Ace said, I'd go with 250W, with the reflectors he suggested over 400w. You have heat to deal with too...

[hobogato]

if it were me, i would go with three luminarc or lumen bright reflectors, single end 250 watt halides on electronic ballasts (i am partial to 12k reeflux bulbs - but that is highly subjective) and 48" t5 for actinic using the UV (formerly URI) high output super actinic bulbs on workhorse ballast.

here are prices from coralreefbazaar.com - a sponsor

luminarc III reflectors 3 @ $125
mh ballast 3 @ $110
mh bulbs 3 @ $63
workhorse ballast for t5 - $60
t5 endcaps - 2 @ $15
t5 bulbs - 2 @ $22 (+ shipping from marine depot - not available at coralreefbazaar)
t5 reflectors - 2 @ $19

that would be a total of 750 watts of mh and 180 watts of t5 for about $1050. not cheap, but you wouldnt have to upgrade later, which is what you would probably do if you bought a single fixture like the one i linked to earlier.

*disclaimer - this is what i would do, and if i had the money i would even double the t5 setup that i listed for a total of 380 watts of actinic. just my opinion, there plenty out there that will disagree :wink_smile:

on my 240 gallon (8'X2'X2') i have 5 250 watters with electronic ballasts and reeflux 12k bulbs and 580 watts of t5 actinic. i have tried MANY lighting setups thru the years, and this one is giving the best results i have ever had.

[LoneStar]

I would do as Ace listed personaly. I always liked piecing together my lighting than getting a all-in-one unit. You can mix and match the setup better that way. And like Bill mentioned, you can replace what goes bad vs. tearing down the fixture and figuring out if you can even replace it or not. Plus buying individual components, you can get better equipment, for a cheaper price and get better results....

Another thing is, you can buy your lighting in stages. No one says you need to get ALL the halides at once. If your setting up the tank from scratch, you can buy one at a time. Then when you have the money later, you can buy the rest. Plus you will be waiting a month or so anyway with a cycle (if starting new) and you won't need light anyways. :)

[Jamie]

hmmm...how essential are the MH's'. I've been looking at VHO's for about the last hour and a half. I can get six 60 inch X 140 watt bulbs for around $600. What is really attracting me to these is that my tank is 5' long...these would fit very well. They would also run cooler and cost less. I'd get a 3yr warranty and would end up with 840 watts.

I'd get two of these... http://www.aquariumsupplycompany.com...92/2739982.htm (http://www.aquariumsupplycompany.com...92/2739982.htm)

Also, getting T5's would be an option...but they only go up to 80 watts for 60 inch bulbs. VHO's tack on an extra 60 watts per bulb. It almost seems that VHO are a thing of the past and that T5's are the lastest and greatest. What are the drawbacks to VHO's? Maybe I've got the wrong impression.

[MissT]

I need an "I agree with Ace" t-shirt. LOL
As mentioned, that type of setup will give you maximum flexibility with maintenance, and having individual components like that allows you to quickly diagnose a problem when/if anything fails.
One MAJOR point to mention as well, is buying new gives you a warranty. If a ballast goes out on something you bought second hand, it's pretty much too bad, go buy another one. If you get a new setup, a lot of the ballasts come with a 2-3 year rebuild/replace warranty (They don't like to take electronic ballasts apart so it's pretty much just replace).
If you're in Austin, you can get pretty much everything Ace mentioned at RCA, too if you want to-also sponsors!

[Bill S]

There are LOTS of discussions regarding MH vs. VHO vs. T5. Frankly, it's my belief that it comes down to this: If you want to keep SPS, MH is the way to go. Yup, there are plenty out there that keep SPS with T5s. I have T5s on my 55. I find the colors MUCH better with my MH/Actinic combo (VHO). T5s generally outperform VHOs in the how-often-do-I-replace-bulbs scenario. And, don't look strictly at watts. The old "watts per gallon" is kind of like "inches per gallon" for fish. It depends.

P.S. I'm seriously considering replacing my VHO actinics with T5s.

[Jamie]

Man, it's so much easier when things are black and white. I.E. you need 600 watts of lighting for X, 800 watts for y, and 1200 for z.

Now I've heard (not just on MAAST) I've heard people say they like VHO's better, some say they like T5's better. Everyone seems to like MH's...though I'm already have heat issues with my tank :(

What do you think the wattage comparison is in the T5 vs VHO face off...i.e x watts of T5 = y watts of VHO.

Like I said in an earlier post, I've still got a couple months to make the decision...I just wish I knew what direction I was going in.

[Jamie]

I'm sure most everyone has a better understanding of this stuff than me, but I've done a bit of research...forum scouring and such, and have found out a few things...just thought I'd put it out here to share in case I was off the mark.

It seems that there are a few things to look for in a light source...lumins, lux, photosyntheticaly active radiation (PAR, 400-700nm) etc. From what I've read, it appears that PAR is the best measure of how effective your set-up is because it's measuring useable light that your corals can take advantage of. From what I've read, the drawbacks to VHO compared to T-5's is that the VHO's have very low PAR and poor penetration compared to T-5's. WPG doesnt tell you anything about how well a light set will keep corals...it all depends on the PAR.

One guy from another forum has access to light measuring equipment and posted some PAR results. The lights fixtures in the test were suspended 15" above the water and the light was measured approximately 15" underwater...

Solaris LED(2ft model) was 70
216 watt T-5's on spec balllast was 150
250 Watt DE MH was 175
260 watt PC was 50

This would confirm that MH's are the best, but surprisingly, the T5's did remarkably well in comparison. When you argue efficiency, heat, and bulb life expectancy...it almost seems that T5's are the way to go. Granted, you can definately cram more wattage, and hence a greater overall PAR, with MH's. Though there isn't any data on VHO's, I've read that they're only a little better than PC.

I'm sure that there a different variations of each set-up that could be better or worse...I'm still new when it comes to recognizing good and bad brands. I can only assume that these fixtures are a good representation of what each typre of lighting has to offer.

After reading up, I think I've got a better handle on lighting considerations. Does anyone have any other input? Am I on the right track regarding my understanding of light set-ups?

[erikharrison]

you seem to have a pretty good idea, YES it is confusing with all of the variables etc. Since there are so many variables, I would echo Ace's idea. It's all about what works for your tank. It's much easier to move lights around when they are independent of each other rather than inline.

[TexasTodd]

Good advice here.

MH/VHO combo is probably the best.

However, I've seen some amazing tanks/sps coral grown under only VHO or T-5s. With T-5s showing what I'd say was "more natural or standard" colors and growth patterns.

If I go SPS again it'll probably be all T-5s, or, T-5s and 2 bulbs of VHO actinics as I still think the VHO actinics are better at putting out "true" actinic than any other bulb.

Todd

[ratboy]

Since you dont know what you plan on keeping I would start out with an icecap 660 ballast or 2 with VHO and/or T5s. That will give you lots of flexibility to tune the color of your lighting and keep temps down. You will get better coraline algae growth under this type of lighting and Ive seen some amazing SPS tanks run only on VHO or T5s. Im running MH's out of neccessity these days(36" deep tank) but prefered my VHO's I had on my old 90 gallon.