New Tank build thread, for dummies

[Drzy]

Hi all. My wife and I are moving into a new home in January, and it's time to start thinking about the tank. I've already goofed on some things by not adequately preparing the tank area... I did get two extra outlets put where the tank will go (one GFCI and one non-GFCI), but I neglected to add any plumbing or drainage. :red_smile:

This will be my first reef tank. I've had a basic 55 gallon FOWLR for a couple years, but I know very little about the equipment for a reef... all I really know is it requires a lot of time, patience, and love for fish, and I've definitely got those. :)

I was hoping you all could pretty much help me build the tank through your suggestions. This would include pretty much everything, such as the tank's dimensions, glass type, equipment needed, where to put the overflows, how to do the sump, stand/canopy suggestions, etc. etc. I'll try to tackle most things one at a time and I imagine this'll be a slow process, but there's no time to start like the present. Of course I'll contribute on my own where I can, I don't expect people to build the tank for me... I'm just looking for guidance, which I need a lot of.

The first thing I'm thinking about is what dimensions to make the tank. The length and width are already set... 56.75" by 30" (this'll be custom, obviously). That will fit it perfectly in the middle column in the picture below, its future home. But what about the height? Since my length and width are restricted, I'd like to make the height as high as I reasonably could, but I'm concerned about biting off more than I can chew... I've read there may be troubles with getting the corals to grow if the lights are too far from the bottom. Given that I'm a novice reefer, what height would you recommend? 30"? 25"? Something else?

I'll keep the thread updated with pictures as I go along. Hopefully someday someone who's fish'tarded like myself can come along and make use of everything in the thread. :bigsmile:

http://drzys.com/home/pics/0240.jpg

[tony]

welcome to maast!!! that is going to be a sweet setup.

there are some great people here and from past experiences im betting they would love to show you their setups and give you opinions/lessons learned. just remember there are few absolutes in this hobby.

you are more than welcome to come over and look at mine but i doubt a 37 cube will give you too many ideas haha

[MissT]

As for the height, 25" would be way easier to light, aquascape and maintain, but 30" would probably fill in the area a little better. Since you're getting it custom built anyways, maybe go somewhere in the middle and do a bigger canopy / lightbox to help fill in the space...
As for flow, lighting, filtration, and other reccommendations, since you are starting from the ground up anyways, you should really think about the ONE thing you absolutely HAVE to have in your tank ( be it clown/anemone symbiosis, a particular fish, maybe you really love fire shrimp...) that matters a ton as far as what else can go with that and it's was easier to build a system around something you love rather than alter one to accomodate for something that was an after thought. Also, decide what types of coral you want to eventually end up keeping. It's a lot cheaper to spend a lot on a light fixture once than to repeatedly spend a less amount on one cheap fixture after another doing upgrades....
I know that was a lot at once, but once you decide what you want, you can set the system up to be less of a headache in the end.
BTW Welcome to MAAST!!!

[Bill S]

We had a similar thread here a week or 2 ago. Just about EVERYONE that has a tank or 2 on MAAST will welcome you to come over and look at what they have done, and proudly point out their mistakes! We all make them, some can be corrected and some can't. You want to minimize the second one... Bring your better half with you, and tour some tanks - especially the built-in ones. You are welcome here anytime we are around (we aren't around most weekends until Sunday pm...). Then you can get some GOOD ideas. I promise you, you will spend about 1/10th the time and 1/2 the money if you follow this advice!

[RayAllen]

First off all welcome! Great looking home and I think its awesome that you a planning this out and not just jumping. As for height I think 30" max as mentioned by MissT; any taller will be a pain to light. I would make the stand 36"-40" so that it raises the tank to center it in the space. A taller stand also gives you the option to get a nice big skimmer. I look forward to the progress.

[Mr_Cool]

Be careful of a taller stand, though.

taller stand = step ladder to reach the bottom of the tank = Pain in the neck

Looks like it's going to be a really nice set-up!

[erikharrison]

Go rimless with a Giesemann (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Giesemann) fixture, or a T5 (http://www.aquactinics.com/pages/TX5.html) fixture!
Check out Mojo's setup here. (http://maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36863)

Honestly, it's going to be about how deep your pockets are, and how nice you want it. It's 100% your setup, so you want to be as happy as possible. There are a ton of people here that can offer up some great advice.

For kicks and if you have the cash, PFO Solaris LED Lighting System. (http://www.solarisled.com/)

Looks like you are ready for total immersion in SW. GOOD LUCK (to your wallet!) :)

[sharkboy]

I would suggest not putting in a canopy and hanging the light fixture overhead. There are plenty of sleek designs...

[erikharrison]

Oh yeah, TILE FLOORING.

[prof]

Look into skimmers first. That will determine how tall you stand will have to be since you probably can't run any remote filtration. Keep everything as modular as possible. That way you can disconnect a pump or filter without shutting down the system or cutting pvc. Carefull planning of the plumbing makes things easier later.

I have a 4x4x2 tank that might fit great in that spot with some custom cabinetry. :)

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

[hobogato]

i echo, taller than 30" could be problematic. as bill offered, you are welcome to come visit my tank as well. evenings after 6 and most weekends are ok.

[Drzy]

Rimless, eh? I hadn't thought about that. I generally like the look of a canopy, but I haven't really seen any rimless systems. Perhaps I'll change my mind once I look through mojo's thread. :) My pockets are moderate... I'm definitely not a price-is-no-object person, but fortunately I won't need to nickel and dime things either.

I would definitely love to visit any tanks that I could. I'm on the Northwest side of San Antonio, but I can definitely travel anywhere... anything that takes me to the Northeast is a great excuse to eat at Garcia's. :D Ace, I'll send a PM, I had been planning on getting with you about custom cabinetry anyway.

:thumbs_up:

[apedroza]

I agree rimless are nice tanks and I think it would look awesome in the space you have.

[erikharrison]

While you're purusing, check out invincible569's blog. WOW. A really good read. :)
http://www.islaescondido.com/image-gallery/

[KyleV]

Based on the pics of where it is going I would do a side overflow. This being said make sure you acount for the space needed on the side before ordering the tank so it still fits since I'm sure you want to view from the front and rear.

[erikharrison]

Dual Calfo's maybe? :D Maybe barebottom since everything has to come from the bottom? If you want to do sand maybe do like bstreep with multiple strainers to cut down on the risk of having sand pulled into your brand new ocean's motions four way!! :applause::bigsmile::p

Don't forget about the monster fuge and bubble king skimmer!

[Drzy]

Based on the pics of where it is going I would do a side overflow. This being said make sure you acount for the space needed on the side before ordering the tank so it still fits since I'm sure you want to view from the front and rear.
I agree on the side overflow... I take it I'd just need one, pushed to whichever said I want? I've seen some aquariums with one and some with two, and I never understood why they're different.

The width of the column is exactly 56.75"... I had planned on getting the tank to be exactly 56.75", and chipping away some drywall as I scooted it into place. Seem okay, or will I need some extra room? I'd like to make it look like the tank is sort of "swallowed" by the columns.

And while I'm asking stupid questions... what's the purpose of a bulkhead? Is it just a way to return water from the sump? It seems like I should be able to find the answer on Google, but I'm coming up empty. :red_smile:


Dual Calfo's maybe? :D Maybe barebottom since everything has to come from the bottom? If you want to do sand maybe do like bstreep with multiple strainers to cut down on the risk of having sand pulled into your brand new ocean's motions four way!! :applause::bigsmile::p

Don't forget about the monster fuge and bubble king skimmer!
I'm not even sure what a Calflo is... I tried to look it up and I don't see how it's different from an overflow. And monster fuge.... I have an awful lot to learn! At least I saw the four way in mojo's thread. I'll be thrilled if I can get mine to look a third as good as that one!

There will indeed be sand in the tank... my wife and I prefer the look. I'll have to do whatever I can to keep things from getting clogged.

[tony]

a bulkhead is just the plumbers fitting that attaches the pvc to the tank.

similar to this:

http://www.enkoi.com/images/categories/C148.jpg

a calfo is just a type of overflow named for anthony calfo (trying to find a site that explains them for you)

there is a lot to read about plumbing and sumps at http://www.melevsreef.com/links.html (http://www.melevsreef.com) (he is/was president of the dallas club)

[erikharrison]

The reason I say duals is to increase the amount of surface water that is being processed through your sump/fuge. The mo the bettah. :) Sure it would probably be overkill, but in my experience overkill works... well, for ME that is.

[erikharrison]

Here's a good site to look at for a tank. www.glasscages.com (http://www.glasscages.com) If they don't have it, I am sure they can make it! Who is it that makes the PVC bottom tanks? In this situation since so many drains and returns have to come up from the bottom, a pvc base will be the only way to go, unless one side of it is dedicated for plumbing etc.

I found it on Naka's RC thread. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=839423) Aquarium Environments in Houston (http://www.aquariumenvironments.com/umbrella)
Naka's is 60x30x24. Pretty close to your dimensions! Take your time, do a slowwwwww build. :) That way you can get cooler stuff and make us all drool. :)

[Drzy]

The reason I say duals is to increase the amount of surface water that is being processed through your sump/fuge. The mo the bettah. :) Sure it would probably be overkill, but in my experience overkill works... well, for ME that is.
I like that idea a lot... this isn't going to be a complicated system, so any simple, low-maintenance thing I can do to keep the system healthy is a huge plus. Thanks!

Also, thanks for the tank builders! I've been leaning towards glasscages.com, but I've heard mixed reviews so I'll have to decide if I want to take the risk. I'll definitely check out the Aquarium Environments folks, as well as some other places I got from Ed at Wolf Reef.

At the moment I'll be asking for a 56.75" (W) x 30" (L) x 27" (H) tank with starphire glass on the front and back, and dual side overflows. Any thoughts on how many bulkheads I should get, and their locations? I can probably get a better idea on how to handle that aspect once I see a reef tank in person. Mojo's design has two bulkhead drains in the overflow, a sump return and chiller return in the overflow, and five additional bulkheads for his OceansMotions 4-way. I'm still debating whether or not I'll need a chiller, and other options for providing water flow.


a calfo is just a type of overflow named for anthony calfo (trying to find a site that explains them for you)
Thanks for all the info! And based on your username, congratulations on your invention of the calflo. :D

[hobogato]

mike, when you come visit, ill show you the different types of overflows, and we can take a look at a good way to do your tank.

[Bill S]

There is a HUGE advantage to a single Calfo - I have just one, and it's on the end of my 215. My sump return is on the other end. The ENTIRE surface is replaced every couple of seconds. Ace built the Calfo for me, and Ross drilled the holes. If I were doing it over again, I'd make the Calfo narrower - there's no reason for it to be as wide as mine is. You can barely see it in some of these photos - I use a magnet cleaner parked in the corner to "hide" if from view: http://www.maast.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38859

[Drzy]

Thank you everyone for your help so far! I visited Ace's tank over the weekend, and it was my first experience seeing a truly well-done tank up close. I'll be thrilled if I can get my tank looking half as nice as that one. Ace, thank you for the pointers, and thanks for letting me visit! :thumbs_up:

I'm still in the planning stages and have some more questions before I start drawing up diagrams...

1.
I'm still unsure about single vs. dual Calflo's. As Erik mentions, two will "increase the amount of surface water that is being processed through your sump/fuge. The mo the bettah." while bstreep says there's a "HUGE advantage to a single Calfo - I have just one, and it's on the end of my 215. My sump return is on the other end. The ENTIRE surface is replaced every couple of seconds."

If I used just one, I assume there'd be a bulkhead on the other end and the sump would return through that? Also, wouldn't the entire surface still be replaced just as quickly using two overflows? I'm probably missing something obvious, but it seems like there's conflicting opinions and I'm not sure if there's really an advantage to one method or the other.

2.
I had been thinking about using an OceansMotions 4-way, but I'll have sand in my tank and I've been hearing about problems with the sand getting the drum stuck. Any other recommendations on how to provide flow? What about a closed loop with some sort of Tunze wavemaker... it sounds like I'd have some hole drilled to take water below the tank, then there's a device which splits it into four ways that are returned to the tank, and the water comes out intermittently, similar to the OM 4-way. Is this a good option? If so, any recommendations for a specific product to use?

3.
How much noise does a chiller make? Or fans? It doesn't look like I'll be able to plumb anything to my garage, so I'm trying to find my best options for keeping things relatively quiet.

[Bill S]

One more point - a single calfo only looks ugly on one end...

Seriously, if I were doing this all over again, I'd only put it on one end. It's about 18" long, and it has plenty of capacity. The return is over the side of the tank, via 1-1/2" plumbing and a QuietOne 6000.

[Drzy]

One more point - a single calfo only looks ugly on one end...

Seriously, if I were doing this all over again, I'd only put it on one end. It's about 18" long, and it has plenty of capacity. The return is over the side of the tank, via 1-1/2" plumbing and a QuietOne 6000.
One it is! My wife was pushing for one Calflo, and if it makes her happy, then according to husband-wife rules it makes me happy too. :)

Questions 2 and 3 are still open for debate. :bigsmile:

[Bill S]

OK, a couple of more. I've heard the same about the drums - but I don't have first hand knowledge. In my tank, which has sand, there are periodic minor "sand storms" when things are moved around. Not sure that on/off cycle would work for most external pumps. You might want to consider Tunzes if you have the $$ or Seios with a controller if you don't. My tank had about 5000 gph of circulation with Calfo/return and closed loops, and that wasn't enough. I added a couple of 2600 gph Seios.

As for a chiller... Some are quieter than others. You should see if there's some way you could plump it outside, if you can.

[erikharrison]

Seriously, the single Calfo is fine, I was just kidding about duals. A single calfo is ten times better than my tiny little corner overflow.:) If you want to do a simple, inexpensive flow, you can go with Hydor Koralias. They are very inexpensive powerheads which move a ton of water around in the tank and they have small motors which only put off little heat.

Another reason you may wish to consider a T5 light kit is for the simple fact that it will heat your water less than metal halides, thus saving some heat. It's much easier to heat a tank than cool one. Also, you could place any needed fans underneath blowing across the water in your sump/fuge. You return pump should/could also be external to help in this area as well, but if you want to go with an internal return, the ones preferred mainly would be mags and eheims.

[RayAllen]

My internal pumps act as my aquarium heaters. I have a Mag 12 return and a Sedra needed wheel on my Octopus skimmer that raised my temp by 3-4 degrees. Lets just say no need for a heater. T5's imo are the way to go; they are the current trend. Less money to power therefore better electric bill, less heat, intense light with a wide spectrum of color. You may need more bulbs to start initially but they will last longer than a MH bulb and be less expensive when replacing. Also if everything is done correctly (pumps/plumbing/fans) I do not thing you will need a heater; its placement in the home will also help with that. You will have a constant air circulation around it because of the open floor layout of your new home.

[txstateunivreefer]

with the OM 4way i bought a used one and it included a drum that was used with a sand bed it looked like someone tried to carve a design in it on a lathe i have to say hearing paul tell me that i would have to clean it every month made me cringe. i would say go with a standard closed loop you can camo where your returns come from thru the bottom etc.

for the height of the tank i say 30 in and lighting put a canopy on and put 400w lumenarcs over the top ive seen em on a 32" deep tank and coral was just fine on the bottom.

height of stand i think i would make it variable so that you could fit the tank dead center in the coulmn.
if you put a canopy on it as well would you have it run to the ceiling? or have a nice space for knick nacs. reason why i ask is because if your ran it to the ceiling you would have more room for balasts etc and with some support work maybe a chiller. the most valuble benefit of running it to the ceiling is also that you can run a ducted fan thru the ceiling if you wanted to it would assist with heat and moisture issues as well it would really SUCK if you got mold growing on the inside of those walls because of a lack of ventalation. skimmer etc is just what you can fit in there, bubble king euro reef and deltec are all of the names that commonly are thrown around on here as the best and you will quickly find out that everyone has their favorite. sump/fuge talk to ace again since he is the acrylic guru that everyone goes to in the club.

in addition i would not use an submersable return pump IMO i perfer an external for several reasons: reduction in heat(you will get plenty from the halides), reduction in energy usage(more $ for coral),and longer life again reccomendations would be either a reeflo pump or iwaki (there are several other brands but these are the ones i have experience with, im sure someone will chime in about panworld and the others)

as far as the side overflow goes it sounds like you are set on the calfo and i like em alot one thing i have noticed by looking at a few is that under the calfo there is no light because of the calfo blocking it, however you do get to maximize your real estate on the sand. would a center overflow be out of the question and having your rock surround it? i think it would be a neat tank in that configuration because then your livestock has a mound of rock they get to swim around.
IF you went with the calfo i think i would if you want to drive that far look at Brian-Greenmakos tank his is external and out of sight which if you could work it out would be um --SWEET then your scaping is up to you and its like the overflow in the way problem is solved.

I think a floor to almost celing tank stand canopy would be neat install fans in the top of the canopy to push air out of the canopy and pull cold air in. a added benefit is you get a place to put nicnacks that can be on display old divers helment or whatever. then do the rest as above or however you want it

[Drzy]

bstreep (Bstreep? Do I capitalize your name at the beginning of a sentence?) very generously let me visit his tank yesterday -- it is absolutely amazing. I'm floored by how incredible his and Ace's tanks look... surely this can't be the norm. That's two visits and two incredible, incredible tanks. Way to set the bar high for my wife's expectations. :wink_smile: Seriously though, thank you very much, I'm learning tons online and through this forum, but there's nothing like seeing a tank in person. My wife asked me to tell you both she really enjoyed the visits.

Among teaching me other things, bstreep stressed how much easier it would be if I could get plumbing to a source other than 100% beneath the tank. I had been thinking it wouldn't be possible, but after hearing how much extra water evaporates due to the heat of reef tanks, it became somewhat of a necessity. I examined some photos I took of my home during the framing stage, and it looks like it might be possible to plumb out to the garage. Here's the plan, in four pictures:

http://drzys.com/temp/plumbplan01.jpg
http://drzys.com/temp/plumbplan02.jpg
http://drzys.com/temp/plumbplan03.jpg
http://drzys.com/temp/plumbplan04.jpg

Is this doable? That's roughly 32 feet of plumbing, straight up and down in spots. And if there are pumps and pipes that can handle that...

1. What size tubing do you recommend?
2. What sort of pump?
3. Any problems with just doing one to the sump, and one return? Or should I try to cram some additional tubing in there?

And of course, let me know if there's anything else I should be considering. Thank you all again for your help, I'll have to throw a BBQ or something when it's all done to thank you properly (i.e. with food).

[Bill S]

Thanks for the compliments.

The biggest problem I see up front is how to design it so that gravity is still your feed somewhere. In other words, under a traditional approach with an overflow to a sump, you are going to have a hard time getting gravity to feed up above your tank!

That being said, AND trying to think this thru, anyone ever thought of putting a sump higher than the tank, and then using an overflow in the SUMP to feed, via gravity, back to your tank? You could mouth the sump up at the top of your garage (and then not taking up precious garage space...), and have an overflow feed back thru the ceiling and to the tank? Another option might be to put a small sump under the tank, and pump it to a larger sump in the garage.

I'll give it some more thought...

[MissT]

That great of a distance, look at the Sequence ReeFlo Hammerhead pump. It should easily be able to handle the height and distance.

[erikharrison]

I would look into a tall stand. Something like Barry's (beareef19) stand. It's very tall, and it is all incorporated underneath, although the plumbing does come up the back. I think with proper baffling you could get away with a very tall sump/fuge and use the extra floor space, and space directly above the sump for plumbing. You could get away with it and still have a very clean setup. What is always talked about is how hot Texas garages get. It would be great to put a cheap ol rubbermaid in the garage, but then you would probably have to run yourself a chiller outside...

[sawarf]

The width of the column is exactly 56.75"... I had planned on getting the tank to be exactly 56.75", and chipping away some drywall as I scooted it into place. Seem okay, or will I need some extra room? I'd like to make it look like the tank is sort of "swallowed" by the columns.
I would leave a little room for settling. All new houses (old ones too) settle and shift. Most windows can generally absorb the stress of settling but I wouldn't want to stress a reef system with the weight of a settling wall or column. Perhaps you could get the swallowing effect by adding sheetrock after installation that will not stress the tank once settling occurs. Or remove sheetrock that won't be visible after the tank is installed.

Just my 2c worth.

[Texreefer]

I would stick with gravity fed sump and pump back to tank,, that should not be a problem as long as you insulate the pipes well,,you will need a chiller if your going to do something in the garage,, all my equipment is in the garage and I use my chiller a lot.. also take the time to run some auto top off lines while your in there.. your welcome to come check out my setup and make it 3 for 3!!:bigsmile:

[Drzy]

Havin' some trouble sleeping tonight, so I figured I'd make a diagram for the tank. This is preliminary... I still barely know how a pump even works. My Google Sketchup skillz are razor thin, so I had to make do with MS Paint.

In case any notices the dimension changes and would be curious, I made some final measurements and decided to go with a 56.5" width and 30" height.

Top-down view of the tank:

http://drzys.com/temp/diagram_03.jpg

The center bulkheads in the Calflo are 1.5" and drain to the sump. The top bulkhead is 1.0" and is the sump return. The bottom bulkhead is 0.75" and has no use, but it'd be there if it was ever needed.

The bulkhead immediately outside and center of the Calflo is a 1.5" bulkhead that drains to a closed loop system. This would be returned to the four 1" bulkheads located in the four corners of the tank.

Questions:

I basically copied the bulkhead sizes from mojo's thread. Do these seem good?
Do you recommend additional bulkheads, or believe the placement of the current bulkheads should change?
Should I return the sump elsewhere, for example, to the other side of the tank?


Side view of under the tank:

http://drzys.com/temp/diagram_04.jpg

The drain from the Calflo is gravity-fed to a mini-sump underneath the tank. From there, the water is pumped via a Sequence ReeFlo Hammerhead 32 feet through the walls of the house and out to the garage, where the "real" sump will be housed, complete with chiller, skimmer, and all that good stuff. A second Hammerhead will be in the garage, pumping the water back to the mini-sump. A smaller pump will take water from the mini-sump and return it to the main tank.

That octopus-looking closed loop system is just a guess. As far as I know, water is drained to a pump, and I'll have a way of splitting it back to the tank through four different returns. What I'll use to accomplish that, I don't know... I'll worry about the equipment soon, for now I'm just concentrating on the concept.

Final question:

So, does this look like it would work? This is an amateur's first shot at making a diagram, so I'm thinking I have to have done a couple things wrong. Or at least there are things that can be improved.

[hobogato]

this is the weak link in your system. even tho you are using exactly the same pumps on both ends, there may be a slight difference in pumping rates which could mean an overflowing sump or mini sump at some point. it is something you will have to keep close tabs on.


From there, the water is pumped via a Sequence ReeFlo Hammerhead 32 feet through the walls of the house and out to the garage, where the "real" sump will be housed, complete with chiller, skimmer, and all that good stuff. A second Hammerhead will be in the garage, pumping the water back to the mini-sump.

[txstateunivreefer]

the Sequence hammerhead is a flow rated pump not pressure rated so you will quickly lose your GPH rating you may have better results with a pressure rated pump.

good point made by ace as well

[Drzy]

Thanks for the replies. Now I understand why gravity-fed sumps are important... took me awhile, I'm a little dense.

The main reason to get the sump elsewhere would've been for the plumbing, particularly the auto-topoff. Another idea bstreep mentioned that I'm now looking at is keeping everything under the tank like originally planned, except run an RO/DI unit upstairs somewhere and feeding the tubing down through the second story floor and into the sump. Seem like an okay idea? There a couple potential problems:


According to Melevsreef.com: "I discovered that the water in your top off container should not be taller than your sump. If it is, once the pump turns off, gravity will continue to drain water until the water in the container and the water in the sump match." Would there be a problem if my reservoir was higher than my sump?

This would be quite a distance for the tubing to travel, since I have no plumbing within 20 or so feet of the tank. Would there be any problems with using a long tube for the auto-topoff system?


If this would work, I'll redraw the plans tonight.

[hobogato]

if you are using a float valve, it will work fine. i have my RO in the garage and connected it to the sump via a 50' tube in the space between the first and second floors with a float valve to control the sump level. just be sure that your RO unit doesnt produce much more than your tank will need per day, or there is potential for a flood if something comes loose (not that something like that has ever happened to me - twice :innocent2: )

[erikharrison]

you could use an ato to do it, but you would need to extend the wiring for one of the sensors dramatically?.?.?

[Bill S]

As Ace suggested, you can use a float switch. However, I'd be inclined to place a solenoid AND a float switch in series. That way you have redundancy - they BOTH have to fail.

My top off water is higher than my sump. However, I have it going to a larger piece of PVC tubing above the sump, which acts as a drain and then has a break in the water flow, prohibiting siponing.

[sawarf]

There are advantages to having the sump/fuge higher than the tank. Mainly, the fuge is a protected breeding ground for copepods (sp?) and all kinds of goodies. unfortunately they get shreaded by the pump when returning to the main tank. My dream setup will have the remote fuge higher than the display. You just reverse things. Put an overflow in the fuge/sump and let gravity do is work feeding back to display. It is best that you have eliminated the dual sump idea, but you could just eliminate the small sump under the tank, add an overflow to the large remote sump/fuge and have it higher than the display so gravity can do its job returning it to the display. I would also use as large as possible diameter pvc and eliminate or reduce to a minimum the bends. Two 45degree angles are much better than one 90 degree. Clear as mud, right?

[sawarf]

Oh, I forgot to mention that your ATO would then neen to be hidden in the overflow area (or somewhere) in the display... You will need a pressure rated inline pump under display pushing up to sump/fuge. I personally always use dual overflows on my setups. Each one should be able to handle the full flow of the return pumps in case one cloggs. In this case, there would be dual overflows in sump/fuge. =-)

[Drzy]

Thanks all! Sounds like everything will be a go. The equipment and sump will be housed under the tank and in the stand, and the RO/DI and topoff equipement will be elsewhere (garage or maybe utility room) with a line feeding it to the tank.

I don't want to rush into things, but I have to order the tank at some point, and I'm confident everything can fit under the tank. Were there any objections to the placement or size of the bulkheads? Perhaps I should be returning the sump to the opposite side of the tank? Unless I hear otherwise, I'll plan on ordering the tank as shown below:

http://drzys.com/temp/diagram_03.jpg

Center bulkheads in the Calflo: 1.5", drain to the sump.
Side bulkhead #1: 1.0", sump return.
Side bulkhead #2: 0.75", no current use, but it'd be there if it was ever needed.

Bulkhead immediately outside and center of the Calflo: 1.5" bulkhead that drains to a closed loop system. Returned to the four 1" bulkheads located in the four corners of the tank.

Again, thanks to everyone for their help, I know n00bs can be frustrating.

[Bill S]

Couple of questions. Is the diagram above from the top? Can you put a side and end one together - 'cause if that's the top, the calfo drains should be in the ends, not the bottom.

Are your holes the size of the hole, or the bulkhead? Bulkhead, right? A 3/4" bulkhead stinks - I have some. The max flow is about 1200 gph.

If you can do it, the sump return should be on the other side from the Calfo.

If I were you... I'd SERIOUSLY consider a remote sump ABOVE the tank level. You could do this high up in your garage, I think. I think that you are going to find that you will need a chiller. It WON'T go under your stand. It might FIT, but it won't FUNCTION.

[hobogato]

Couple of questions. Is the diagram above from the top? Can you put a side and end one together - 'cause if that's the top, the calfo drains should be in the ends, not the bottom.

i dont think he has space to drill the end of the tank, so really he will have a traditional (from the bottom up) overflow just at one end.


I think that you are going to find that you will need a chiller. It WON'T go under your stand. It might FIT, but it won't FUNCTION.

if he does have to run a chiller, he can still plumb that to the outside because it will function somewhat like a closed loop for the sump.

[Drzy]

Couple of questions. Is the diagram above from the top? Can you put a side and end one together - 'cause if that's the top, the calfo drains should be in the ends, not the bottom.
That's correct, it's above from the top. I can't have anything go outside the tank walls because that's where the home's columns will be. I'll have to find some pictures of the inside of a Calflo to get a better idea of how these work, but I had been thinking the water would cascade into the Calflo and make its way down the two center drains, pump-free. The Calflo design was taken from mojo's thread, it should work like his.


Are your holes the size of the hole, or the bulkhead? Bulkhead, right? A 3/4" bulkhead stinks - I have some. The max flow is about 1200 gph.
They are bulkhead sizes. I copied the sizes from mojo's thread as well, I believe he was using his 3/4" bulkhead as a chiller return. I would never be using that drain for that purpose, so I'll make it a 1". Thanks for the info!


If you can do it, the sump return should be on the other side from the Calfo.
Will do, that should help the water circulation. I'll rediagram with side views tonight, or sometime this week.


If I were you... I'd SERIOUSLY consider a remote sump ABOVE the tank level. You could do this high up in your garage, I think. I think that you are going to find that you will need a chiller. It WON'T go under your stand. It might FIT, but it won't FUNCTION.
To get plumbing elsewhere, my only option is to run the pipes up the side of the columns and then out to the garage. The problem is, it would come into my garage at the very top of the ceiling, so I couldn't set it up to be gravity-fed. Putting the sump in the upstairs media room is intriguing, but it's an absolute no-go from my wife. I don't think a remote sump will be an option.

Like Ace said, the chiller would still be an option if needed someday. Fortunately there's no insulation in the columns or the ceiling above the tank, so snaking the plumbing from the garage to that spot would be tough but doable. Seems like a closed-loop wouldn't have the gravity-fed issues... I'm sure that's obvious to you guys, but I'm still learning even the little things.

[Bill S]

Cool. Yes, the closed loop eliminates gravity situations - COMPLETELY. No loss of head pressure anywhere, either.

ANOTHER thought. While MOST of us have UGLY refugiums, They CAN be a nicely planted tank, along with some inhabitants that aren't necessarily reef-safe. You could put your fuge above the tank upstairs, with a simple overflow/return. That would/could free up some space under the stand. You could ALSO have the fuge be your destination for makeup water...

[Drzy]

Having the refugium upstairs is definitely a good idea, and something I'll keep in mind. My wife's still not a fan of anything being anywhere except directly under the tank... actually, she's not really a fan of anything about the tank at all right now. I'll do my best to tread lightly and maybe I can broach the idea after I butter her up with a dinner or something. If I do do that, it'll be easy to incorporate into the plans.

Here's the revised diagram. The sump return has been moved to the opposite end of the tank, and the 3/4" bulkhead was changed to a 1". Everything else is basically the same.

http://drzys.com/temp/diagram_05.jpg

http://drzys.com/temp/diagram_06.jpg

I didn't draw in the RO/DI or auto-topoff system, but it would be placed elsewhere and the plumbing and electric would come in through the wall, similar to the chiller.

I have the same questions this time...


Should the size or positions of the bulkhead be changed?
Should I add more bulkheads? Would there be any downside to that?
I just thought of this now: The electrical outlets are on the bottom, and there's no good way to run the wires from the bottom to the top for the lights. Should I somehow create a path that the wires could travel up through the tank, perhaps in the overflow? Or is it better to just drill into and out of the drywall and put the wires through there?


Again, thank you for your hepl! I'll take a week or so before ordering the tank. Sort of like the waiting period for buying a gun.

[erikharrison]

You should have an electrician run some GFCI outlets above the tank area in one of the columns to allow for plenty of outlets! I think the rest looks great. Are you going to order from AGE? I would consider a pvc bottomed tank since you are going with the CL!

[Drzy]

Pickin' up the tank tomorrow. :thumbs_up:

I'm working on some stand/canopy ideas and have a question about support. It's a glass-bottom tank... is it okay to have a little overhang over the stand, as seen in the attached thumbnail? Pretend the picture is from the bottom up, as if you stuck your head under the tank in the stand. This would result from me placing the tank on a stand of 2x4's and surrounding it by cabinets that match my kitchen cabinets (rustic maple cabinets made by Kent Moore). The 2" overhang would be where the tank sits on unsupported molding at the top... sort of like this:


.| Tank
.L________ (side view)
.\ ||
. \||
.. || Stand
.. ||

[Drzy]

Well, I made a fairly large mistake. I took the measurements for the tank very carefully, and accurately measured that the distance from wall to wall was 55.5", and wrote down that the tank should be 55" wide. But in my email to Glasscages where I gave them the specifications, I brainfarted and asked them to make it 56" wide. The tank is great... but it doesn't fit in my space. Hopefully it wasn't a $1600 mistake.

I guess I'm going to chip away at the drywall at some point and hope I can get it fit in somehow. Definitely sucks, but hopefully I can still do this without ordering another $1600 tank.

[BigKGlen]

Drzy,
You can mark the drywall where the tank's final position will be, then remove the drywall (which is 1/2" thick). Re-install 1/4" 'green board', which is for wet areas. That will give you clearance and protection.
I can give you a hand if you need.