Fully a.t.o.

[jc]

I am getting tired of lugging 5 gallon jugs to keep my a.t.o. running. I was wondering if any of you connect your r/o directly to the sump. I want to figure out a way to keep the r/o machine in my garage and have my osmolator (or whatever) turn it on when needed. What about keeping a barrel full of r/o water in the garage and having that feed to my tank. One problem would be that my tank is not near the garage wall. I think I would have to run a hose through the attic and down to the tank.

[Texreefer]

i run my RO unit into a storage tank and that into the sump.. two float valves and i never have to carry water

[LoneStar]

Well if you got to run the line over the wall from the water storage barrel, you will need some way to pump it through. And to make it automatic, you'll need some sort of pump with sensor(s). That way you can have the RO unit in the garage and fill the water storage barrel. Use a simple float valve mounted in the barrel to turn off the RO unit once the barrel is full. If you have it placed in a spot in the garage where 'spill's won't be a problem, that be playing it safe. Then you can use something like this:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~SearchStr~a.t.o.~action~view~idProduct ~JB5111~idCategory~FIDPETPU~category~JBJ_Automatic _Top_Off_(A.T.O.)_System_Water_Level_Controller_Sa ltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Dosing_Pumps_Top_Off_Ele ctric_Powered_Plug_in_Units~vendor~~tab~0.html

Its a auto top off unit that will sense the water level in the sump. It does not come with a pump, so you can use any pump (within the power capabitlity of the ATO switched outlet) to pump water from the barrel to the sump. Water will fill the barrel. Once the barrel is full, the float valve will turn off the RO unit. When the tank evaps, the ato unit will drain the barrel. And when the barrel drains down, the float valve turn the RO unit back on to fill the barrel (as long as you have a shut off valve for your RO unit). After that, its a matter of checking the sensors and float valve occasionally. I would use the ATO brand only for the fact that a top off unit like the Tunze Osmolator is limited to the distance it can pump water. Longer distances would require something like the ATO.

You could also just run a RO water line from your water unit to the sump, and use a float valve. Its a little dangerous doing it like that for the fact that the float valve can fail, and end up with a crashed tank and a wet floor.

[LoneStar]

i run my RO unit into a storage tank and that into the sump.. two float valves and i never have to carry water

Thats as long as you have the water storage barrel higher than the sump, for a gravity fed system. That will work good too. Just make sure the float valves won't get stuck! Clean them once a month to get any salt creep off of them. Because if the lower one in the sump fails, it will allow water to fill constantly.

[Richard]

This (http://www.spectrapure.com/St_alc_p1.htm) is the unit to use if you want to go directly from your ro/di to your sump. I've been using one for 4 years, can't imagine that I'd ever go a different route since you don't need storage tanks dosing pumps etc. You just need to get the ro/di line to your sump. The unit has to be within 6 feet of the sump.

[Bill S]

Richard, the only things I don't like about your solutions are 1) if the float switch fails, you overflow the sump and crash the tank and 2) as 1" drop is about a gallon in my sump - and the RO/DI unit cycles all the time.

After hearing many stories about flooding & crashing, when I set up my 215 I set it up so that the storage container, which holds about 37 gallons, feeds the sump. I manually turn on the RO/DI about once every 6 or 7 days, to refill it. It automatically shuts itself off with a float switch, but I don't like cycling my RO/DI unit, so I turn it off. This way, the MAXIMUM I can overfill my tank is 37 gallons. For the sump refill, I have a double protected unit from www.top-off.com (http://www.top-off.com). If it fails - however unlikely, that would put about 20 gallons on the floor BUT it won't crash the tank.

Personally, my ATO unit lasted about 9 months, and my Tunze about 15. I'd rather deal with a "local" like www.top-off.com (http://www.top-off.com). I bought 2 units from him.

[Richard]

It's a normally closed solenoid that turns water on/off so if power fails water will not flow. The float valve is just the backup in case the soleniod fails which is unlikely. On mine I have the float valve about 4 inches above the topoff level so if the solenoid failed I would know it because the water level would be higher than it should be but the soleniod has never failed.

Mine switches on around two or three times a day to top off. I'm not sure what you mean by cycling the ro/di.

[Bill S]

OK, now I understand. Didn't realize there was a backup. 2-3 times a day isn't bad - with the Tunze, it was cycling every 10 minutes.

[matt]

I used a combination solenoid and timer to connect my R.O. to the sump on a previous tank. It worked great. The timer turned on the solenoid twice a day, so the R.O. unit wasn't cycling on and off, and a float switch out of the water acted as a fail safe; if the level got too high it would trip the float switch. Keeping the float switch out of the water helps to keep it from encrusting, and also keeps snails from taking a nap on it. You basically estimate (through trial and error) how much time you need the R.O. going to match your evaporation.

I have an auto top-off unit something like the one Richard linked to. It uses three stainless steel sensors to measure conductivity and powers a solenoid. I never installed it because I use a litermeter to add KW. I think it's probably pretty reliable, but it does mean you have to drill 3 small holes in the sump wall. If you want it, I'll sell it for $40. I got it from purelyH20 about a year ago.

[Richard]

OK, now I understand.

Ok, now I understand too LOL. RO cycling = turning on/off constantly. Yeah for your example of 1" = 1 gallon then the number of times it turned on would be the same as the number of gallons you lose per day from evaporation.

The plastic tube with the airline tubing is submerged about half way at the desired water level. The airline tubing connects to a little port on the solenoid controller. So when the water level drops the air pressure in the tubing drops and that is what triggers the solenoid. That's why it has to be within 5 feet of the sump since that's the length of the airline tubing. It has been much more reliable than I ever thought it was going to be.

[jc]

I have a new idea. Since the tank is against an outside wall can I put the r/o and storage tank on the outside of the house. That way the r/o waste water can just dump on the lawn and if the float valve from the r/o gets stuck the water will spill outside the house. Then I could use the a.t.o. to pump water through the wall from the outside into the sump. The distance from the sump to the outside storage would be about 6 to 8 feet. From a pump at the bottom of the storage container, up and through the wall, into the back of the aquarium stand. I have my electrical box about 20 feet from the spot and I can have electricity run out to it easily. I can also split the outside water faucet and run it around the corner to the same spot to feed the r/o. I'm thinking I could build a wooden box to house everything in to keep the bugs and weather away. What about during the winter? Do you think my idea will survive a freeze? I guess I can always turn it off during the 2 weeks of winter we get :)
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7043/atoplancl8.png

[GeoB]

tagging along. I've thought about doing exactly the same thing, but wasn't sure how bad a freeze would mess up the ro/di filters and lines. Maybe a light bulb could be placed in the enclosure when a freeze might happen.

[LoneStar]

What about during the winter? Do you think my idea will survive a freeze? I guess I can always turn it off during the 2 weeks of winter we get

Looks like a plan. The enclosure should help keep the water cooler during the summer. I don't think you will have a problem with water freezing in the container. Possibly if you use a exernal pump, and the water lines feeding the tank may freeze. But if the fill line drains when the siphon from the pump stops, it shouldn't be a problem. If you use a internal pump, there shouldn't be any problem. If the water does get too cold, you can just put a heater inside. And/or add insulation they use to wrap hot water heaters perhaps.

[Richard]

I don't think you need to worry about it freezing. Even during a hard freeze a 100w light bulb in my well house keeps things from freezing up. A we usually get a little colder in the hill country.

[jc]

Has anyone done something similar to this? I could swear I saw a picture where someone ran the cooler on the outside of the house. Now how do I make a hole in the wall that won't look bad. I would like it to look as professional as possible.

[LoneStar]

Ace has his chiller placed on the side of his house, similar to the water setup you want to do. I'm sure he can chime in on drilling through the house. Best bet is to double check there are no water lines, electrical, and by chance gas lines running up that wall of your house. If there is a faucet in that area, there might be water lines in that wall....

[matt]

Now how do I make a hole in the wall that won't look bad. I would like it to look as professional as possible.

Don't use a shotgun to make the hole!

One thing is that R.O. untis are temperature sensitive and have decreased flow rates with colder water. I'd be fairly concerned about the membrane getting too cold. You could easily make a little enclosure for it and put a light bulb or small heater in there when it's really cold.

Matt

[jc]

Maybe I can layer the inside walls with styrofoam.

[LoneStar]

You could probably get a Rubbermaid lawntool storage box and find a water container that will fit inside. Insulate it and you could have the water barrel and RO unit kept in there. Rig up a clip light with a light bulb for a lil heat and drill a few holes on the side of it for water lines comeing in/out. Viola. RO Water Station.

[brewercm]

I use the system similar to this one and just tee off of the tank to the sump and the other line is to a water valve at my sink. On the sump I have a standard Kent float valve to shut off the water from the RO unit and have a DI canaster that is in line to the sump. So far it's been running fine like this for almost three years.

http://www.spectrapure.com/St_drink_p2.htm