Need help figuring out the cause ...

[eleyan]

My 175G reef has been setup for a couple of years so far. A few months back I started noticing some of my SPS dieing off. it started with my monti caps. Now most of my SPS are gone. the odd thing is that other corals are doing great. here is how it breaks down:

- SPS: dieing or not doing well
- LPS: very happy
- leathers: very happy
- zoos: not as happy as before
- button polyps: closed up
- star polyps: very happy
- BTA: berry happy
- flower anemone: closed up

I noticed a slow rise on my nitrates over the past few months, and I can't tell if its because of the die off or causing it (chicken and egg thing :( ) I've also started getting some red slime algae (added more power heads to control it).

Here are my tank specs:

175 oceanic bow front RR
55G sump split into 3 compartments:
50% is used for 2 chambers fuge with macro algae
50% used for filter and natulis skimmer
2 Iwaki return pumps (about 18GPH total) + 2 Hydor4 pumps (1200GPH each)
2x250w 20,000K MHs + 1x250w 10,000k MHs + 2x55w actinic PCs

water conditions:
ammonia 0
nitrites 0
nitrates 10-20
PH 8.2-8.4
KH 10
calcium 375-400


I had a similar thing happen to me a few years back in my old 72G and it turned out to be a bad power head leaking electricity. I don't think this is the problem here because I did not have any power heads in the main tank (until I added the Hydor4s a couple of weeks ago, but the problem was there from before).

Any ideas are much appreciated

[Texreefer]

well, if nitrates are not the cause, they are certainly the contributer now. so lets get that under control. have you changed feeding habits or have any inveribrates gone missing lately?.. crank up the skimmer and skimm wet for a few days with a couple of water changes.. when you say dieing,, is it tissue sloughing off or is it a gradual recession from the base or top.. also what types of SPS? were they local frags, wild colonies? Etc.

[eleyan]

The SPS I have are mostly monti caps and brown and orange montipora. I also have some green bali slimers. They were all established colonies that started from frags a couple of years ago. They were growing like crazy in the beginning and covering rocks and tank walls. then they started slowly receding. it seems that the edges first start turning white and then the live parts starts diminishing over weeks.
I did a few water changes to reduce the nitrates, but they just keep creeping back up. I will turn off my auto feeder and start feeding by hand to better control how much I feed. anything else I should be doing meanwhile to reduce the nitrates quickly?

[Texreefer]

Well if they keep creeping back up then you have something in the tank somewhere producing them.. do you have a bunch of old bioballs in the sump? or a portion of the sandbed that got disturbed?.. did you recently increase the lighting?

[eleyan]

I don't have any bio balls, just a couple of sponges and prefilter that I wash verry well every time I do a water change (25% once a month). My lighting has been the same and I have not touched the sand bed since I first set up the tank.
I have a bunch of slime and other kind of algae growing in the sump, on the glass and over some of the cheatu macro algae. I try to clean as much as I can every time I do a water change.

[erikharrison]

Spray everything down with a powerhead. I would totally break my tank down and try to find the source. How many and of what kinds of a cleanup crew do you have? Are they all still living? What ype of water are you using? TDS meter?

[apedroza]

I've had that problem with caps before and recently lost a slimer to the same thing as well. The caps I noticed turned white, but never loss tissue mass. I contributed them to low salinity levels. What is your Salt level and temp??

[eleyan]

Breaking down the tank might cause more stress, and its a really big tank to tear down. My clean up crew now is a few snails and hermits. I was thinking about getting more snails, but I wasn't sure if they would help with the red slime?
I'm using an RO/DI filter from my water changes and top off. I don't have a TDS meter, but I tested the nitrates and ammonia from the RO/DI filter and they were 0. I've changed the membrane a all the stages a couple of months back.

[eleyan]

salinity is 1.025 using refractometer. temperature is 76c

[Bill S]

Take a sample of your water to your LFS. Just to make SURE. Refractometers can be wrong, test kits can be wrong. Take a sample of your RO/DI water too. If you are in SA, I'd be happy to run tests for you, as well.

Nitrates are a direct result of food or other organic material (dying organisms) in the tank. 10-20 ain't that bad. But, I'd be VERY aggressive on your water changes - as much as you can change once a week - and run a BUNCH of carbon. I know I might be questioned/criticized on this, but I'd be sure and use a good reef salt. You are probably undergoing a slow crash.

Your symptoms and resultant specific die off remind me of my Hiatt filtration results... There was something not being replenished that certain corals needed.

[Ed]

Have you checked your Magnesium levels?

[tony]

to add to what others have said more flow wont reduce the red slime (cyano). i cycle my tank 50 times per hour and still battle it

[alton]

How old are your MH lamps? I have seen DE lamps loose 50% in only 8 months! And you can not notice it by just looking at it. The first time I tried keeping SPS that's what happened to mine.

[eleyan]

the 20,000ks are about 3 months old. The 10,000k I just replaced a couple of weeks ago.

I have not tested Magnesium, I will try to take a sample to aquatech here in austin to test.

[Headless_donkey]

When you replaced to 10ks, did you replace a different spectrum? I had the same thing happen to me when I replace an old MH with a brand new one. The corals went into complete shock. Jennifer coined the name,"death tank." After work my first chore was to pull dead stuff (sps) out of the tank. I switched to PC and BOOM everything started doing great. In hindsight I should have acclimated the corals better to the new lamp.

Just a thought.

[sawarf]

When you replaced to 10ks, did you replace a different spectrum? I had the same thing happen to me when I replace an old MH with a brand new one. The corals went into complete shock. Jennifer coined the name,"death tank." After work my first chore was to pull dead stuff (sps) out of the tank. I switched to PC and BOOM everything started doing great. In hindsight I should have acclimated the corals better to the new lamp.

Just a thought.

So, how does one go about "acclimating corals to a new lamp?" I can't move the lamp further away or move the corals further away and gradually move them back. Do we adjust the photoperiod? By how much and for how long do we titrate back up?

Do anemones need acclimating as well?

Thanks,

Sean

[Headless_donkey]

Photoperiod can be adjusted. Raising the light also works. You can also put pieces of plastic window screen over the tank our around the lamp fixture. Then you remove a piece of screen each week.

The time it takes to increase the light to the full amount depends on what your corals are doing. If it is just a new lamp maybe a month. If you are moving to a much brighter type of lamp then the process could take longer.

I don't know about anemones.

[eleyan]

I replaced my MHs with the same spectrum and even the same brand.

[Ping]

Could high Phoshates be the cause of his problems? Sounds like he also has some Cyno.

[eleyan]

Well, I don't know what exactly did the trick, but I'm starting to see new growth on my monti caps and the red slime is gone. My button polyps are still closed up though. It might take them a little bit more to start responding. Here are all the things I've done over the past month:

- took out the auto feeder and started feeding by hand again.
- started adding vinegar to my kalk in my auto top off water (supposedly this reduces nitrates and phosphates)
- started running my diatom filter after each water change
- ran the protein skimmer wet
- ran carbon every week

Thanks for all the help

[hobogato]

wish i had seen this thread 4 weeks ago! this is what i would have said to do - the leather corals you have could be causing the problems you were seeing and the carbon helps remove the toxins they release. the other things you are doing are probably helping as well - glad you got it turned around :wink_smile:



- ran carbon every week

[aquasport24]

What kind of vinegar are you using?

[eleyan]

just plain old HEB distilled white vinegar. I have a 6G top off water container that I fill up every three days. I add 8 table spoons of kalk and 210 ml of vinegar and let gravity do the work :)